I could really use some advice.

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**Lawlet**

I have been researching warhammer for quite a while now, and in the end decided to go to my local store 20 minutes away for a trial, in a place called Belfast in case anyone knows it.

I painted a model and played a small scale demo. I asked one of the red shorts how he would suggest starting off, he pushed me towards the shops starter bundles, comprised of dark vengeance and some other gear such as paints, altogether the pack is rougly £106.

Down to my real questions then, how would you suggest starting? Would the bundle work? As a 14 year old I would not like to be seen as your young teen going with the common choice, I do like the dark angels, I just have my doubts for that price. Are they easy to paint? And lastly should I use the chaos space marines instead?

Sorry for all the questions, I really appreciate you taking your time to read and answer.

**TheCaptain**

If you don't know how you want to start, or what army in particular you want to spend years of your life on, go with Dark Vengeance. The built in missions will give you a great basic understanding of the game, and they're pretty fun.

**Somedude593**

read through the armies on the website... that is how i chose.. go for an army whose tactics sound like that you would like and maybe pay attention to the stuff that goes on in this site.... look at tactics ask questions read army builds and make an infromed decision then

**Lawlet**

TheCaptain wrote:
If you don't know how you want to start, or what army in particular you want to spend years of your life on, go with Dark Vengeance. The built in missions will give you a great basic understanding of the game, and they're pretty fun.

Thanks, I was originally thinking Tau, but when I looked into them more I started to dislike the tactics. I do however love the backstory of the dark angels and the paint style of the terminators.

If I paint my first models badly, I can always redo them later right?

**Pomyboy**

Yea you can repaint them a few times before loosing detail.

**Peregrine**

Pomyboy wrote:
Yea you can repaint them a few times before loosing detail.

Or just throw them in the bucket of paint stripper.

**Rotgut**

Dark Vengeance is a great start, especially if you like dark angels and if you want to try a new army you already have the chaos marines. Plus you get the rule book so you can't go wrong with it.

**Quintinus**

OP, I'd recommend this before you start throwing around 100 GBP like that:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat470005a&prodId=prod1490027a

You said you like the Dark Angels, and lo and behold it comes with 5 Dark Angels. Plus it has a lot of the paints too. I only recommend getting this first to ensure that you enjoy (or even want to) paint the models in the first place. Also play a few starter games before you start spending money.

**Lawlet**

Vladsimpaler wrote:
OP, I'd recommend this before you start throwing around 100 GBP like that:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat470005a&prodId=prod1490027a

You said you like the Dark Angels, and lo and behold it comes with 5 Dark Angels. Plus it has a lot of the paints too. I only recommend getting this first to ensure that you enjoy (or even want to) paint the models in the first place. Also play a few starter games before you start spending money.

That sounds like a great idea, the only problem is then I will have to get the other stufd separately, but I can live with that. I might just do this, thanks!

Although if I got this and dark vengeance what else would I need to buy separately? Just wondering.

**Skinnereal**

Look at the army lists section (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/forums/show/14.page), and find a Dark Angels list.
Get to know what units they use, and see whether anyone talks them out of using any of them.

Then, read through some battle reports (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/forums/show/17.page).

You'll get to know the way the army works, and which kind of units you will want to use.

The best way to learn an army though, is to get the rulesbook (Dark Vengeance) and the codex for the army. Borrow one if you can.

Download a list builder app such as Battlescribe, get the
database files, and throw an army together.
(http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/489459.page)
After all that, price up an army, and look around for local stockist that gives discount.

**Pilau Rice**

Somedude593 wrote:
read through the armies on the website... that is how i chose.. go for an army whose tactics sound like that you would like and maybe pay attention to the stuff that goes on in this site.... look at tactics ask questions read army builds and make an infromed decision then

The GW website used to be excellent for this, but now they have removed the 'who are the' and 'getting started' articles and, come to think of it, pretty much anything that has fluff involved.

Quite a shame really, it's little more than a catalog with a blog now.

**UberhAxTHC**

Getting that paint set and the DA half of Dark Vengeance would actually give you a playable force as well, as you would have the compulsory 1 HQ and 2 Troops.

It might look something like this, if you're using the actual Dark Angels codex, and not Codex: Space marines:

Company Master - 125
Power weapon / Combi-plasma

Librarian - 120

Deathwing Terminator Squad - 245
Assault cannon x1

Tactical Squad x10 - 210
Plasma pistol x1 (on Sergeant) / Plasma gun x1 / Plasma cannon x1

Tactical Squad x5 - 90

Ravenwing Bike Squad x3 - 135
Plasma gun x1

It's by no means ground breaking, but it's a playable list that gives you plenty of options. I built this list assuming everything is WYSIWYG, meaning I only bought the upgrades that were actually on the model itself, but most people aren't so strict about WYSIWYG, I was just using this as an example. Using the list above, you would be at 925 points, which puts you in a good position to play some games at 1000 points so you can see what real games are like. Then once you have an idea of what you want to add to your force from playing a couple of games, start picking up other units from there. The Space Marine battleforce wouldn't be a bad idea from here, and if you have the cash, the Megaforce would pretty much complete your army (almost).

**Cultiststeve**

Lawlet wrote:
Vladsimpaler wrote:
OP, I'd recommend this before you start throwing around 100 GBP like that:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat470005a&prodId=prod1490027a

You said you like the Dark Angels, and lo and behold it comes with 5 Dark Angels. Plus it has a lot of the paints too. I only recommend getting this first to ensure that you enjoy (or even want to) paint the models in the first place. Also play a few starter games before you start spending money.

That sounds like a great idea, the only problem is then I will have to get the other stufd separately, but I can live with that. I might just do this, thanks!

Although if I got this and dark vengeance what else would I need to buy separately? Just wondering.

Dark vegeance contains pretty much everything you need.
Once you have played a few games using the rules given, you will need to decide on what army you want to stick with.
Then you will need to buy a codex for that army (arround £20).
The codex contains all the rules and fluff for a one army and all their units.

Also keep in mind dark angels are rumored to be getting a new codex soon so you may want to wait for that. But you can still get that paint set, and dark vengeance without worrying about a codex.

Two more things to consider : buy units that you think are fun, dont just copy paste a competitive tournament list from the internet. At least to begin with.
If you decide you like space marines, but not dark angels, there are other armies that you could play using the same models. (Normal space marines, space wolves, blood angels and black Templars)

**Lobokai**

I'd find a veteran player to latch on to, or a FLGS that has some store armies. Play at least 5 battles with at least two completely different forces (borrowing units to play).

Then decide what style you like, and ask some community veterans (not GW employees) which forces fit that. Play a battle or two with that force...

Then make a list and make an investment. I let all the new players do this with all my stuff and it just makes for a content, happy, better informed gaming community.

**ClassicCarraway**

If you go with the Dark Vengence set and want to build Dark Angels, try to find someone that might be interested in starting a Chaos army and maybe split the cost, or find someone that is willing to just buy the models or maybe trade for more Dark Angels. Either way, you are set, and you get the mini-rule book which is one of the better publications GW has put out.

**Nakor The BlueRider**

Welcome to the crazy world of toy solders!

You've took the first step on the road to getting your first army and you've done the right thing in researcher before you start parting with your cash.
Basic questions first, what attracts you to 40k? is it the models, the fluff, the thrill of competition or the joy of throwing dice?
Have you taken a good look and read up about all the different factions in the game?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP8C-xZeFPY
MWG intro and other videos are a good place to start offer a beginners insight to the game.

Dark Vengeance is a good start if you wish to play either Chaos or Dark Angels as its a great price for some awesome looking models.

**Ailaros**

So, for starting a new army, I'll give you my stock advice:

You should start by looking at aesthetics.

Look at the army, and decide what kind of minis you like. You will likely be spending a lot of time painting them, and you're going to have to look at them every time they play. If you think that ork models look silly, then don't play orks, or if you like anime, then perhaps a tau army is for you.

Read some fluff about the armies you like the miniatures of. The rulebook gives a bit, but I'd go to a local game store and just sit down and read the front part of every codex. If you explain to any store worker who might complain that you're researching starting a new 40k army, they'll shut up immediately.

The background to the different armies can be very, very different, from the ultra-elite loyalist demon army of grey knights to the green, scottish hooligans in space of the orks. Some of the dry british humor and general grimdark has a lot of flavor to it. Find something you can really get your imagination behind.

Thirdly, once you've done this, consider play styles. Do you want an army of heroes that beats face and dies epically? Do you want an army of all vehicles trundling across the plain? Do you just want something that gets in there and rips your opponent's stuff in half with their bare hands and chainsaw swords? Many different codices can do many different styles, but if there's something in specific you want, that might help narrow things down for you.

Once you get to this point, you'll probably be down to just a few armies to pick from. Once here, you should look at some examples of lists that people bring, and see if there are some commonly-used units that look exciting to you.

At some point, though, you're just going to have to take the plunge.

Once you do, the first thing to do is get the codex (and the rulebook if you don't have one), and spend a lot of time getting very familiar with the rules. Buy a box or two of your basic infantry along with any other hobby stuff you're currently lacking and start getting a feel for assembling, converting, and painting the miniatures (including getting a color scheme you like). Once you have a basic two troops and HQ, along with an understanding of the rules, you might perhaps want to play a few trainer games at a local store or gaming group. It shouldn't be too hard to find someone to show you the ropes.

From there, it really depends. You'll want to expand your army in different ways, given different tastes and different experiences. Perhaps you'll find some second hand models from friends or the internet, or you'll start getting into bitz ordering and scratchbuilding. You might fully explore the entirety of what your codex has to offer, or start a second army when you feel you're done with the first one. Where you go from there is up to you.

As for your particular situation, a starter box wouldn't be too shabby, but that's assuming, of course, that you like CSM or dark angels. If you don't, then for the same $100 you'll probably get two troops and an HQ choice of any army you want, and that will likely be enough to start playing some 500 point games. Remember, this isn't a hobby for those seeking instant gratification. It takes a long time of painting and playing before you get to the point of epic 1850 point games.

**Lawlet**

Cultiststeve wrote:
Lawlet wrote:
Vladsimpaler wrote:
OP, I'd recommend this before you start throwing around 100 GBP like that:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat470005a&prodId=prod1490027a

You said you like the Dark Angels, and lo and behold it comes with 5 Dark Angels. Plus it has a lot of the paints too. I only recommend getting this first to ensure that you enjoy (or even want to) paint the models in the first place. Also play a few starter games before you start spending money.

That sounds like a great idea, the only problem is then I will have to get the other stufd separately, but I can live with that. I might just do this, thanks!

Although if I got this and dark vengeance what else would I need to buy separately? Just wondering.

Dark vegeance contains pretty much everything you need.
Once you have played a few games using the rules given, you will need to decide on what army you want to stick with.
Then you will need to buy a codex for that army (arround £20).
The codex contains all the rules and fluff for a one army and all their units.

Also keep in mind dark angels are rumored to be getting a new codex soon so you may want to wait for that. But you can still get that paint set, and dark vengeance without worrying about a codex.

Two more things to consider : buy units that you think are fun, dont just copy paste a competitive tournament list from the internet. At least to begin with.
If you decide you like space marines, but not dark angels, there are other armies that you could play using the same models. (Normal space marines, space wolves, blood angels and black Templars)

I was considering if I could convert the dark angels to black templars without much difficulty, is it hard? I would be 50/50 on them, which would you guys suggest? What Differences do they have in tactics?

Nakor The BlueRider wrote:
Welcome to the crazy world of toy solders!

You've took the first step on the road to getting your first army and you've done the right thing in researcher before you start parting with your cash.
Basic questions first, what attracts you to 40k? is it the models, the fluff, the thrill of competition or the joy of throwing dice?
Have you taken a good look and read up about all the different factions in the game?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP8C-xZeFPY
MWG intro and other videos are a good place to start offer a beginners insight to the game.

Dark Vengeance is a good start if you wish to play either Chaos or Dark Angels as its a great price for some awesome looking models.

Already watched some of their videos, but thanks, mainly I want to play the game for the fun of it, the models look awesome and seem like something I can be proud of, and I adore strategy games. Biggest concern would be painting them, I want them well done and painted, but don't wanna screw them up, generally not the best painter.

**Nakor The BlueRider**

With painting its all about practice. Your first mini isn't going to be great but you've got a lot to learn. You should of seen my first Necron HQ

the thing looked like it had been dripped in paint and then had random colors slapped all over it.
Its wonderful to see your own progress as you learn techniques and styles so don't be put off by 'screwing them up'. Get them painted and if in a few weeks or months you don't like them and think you can do better just strip them have another go. Detol is easy to use and cheap.

**kwah**

if you get the set id suggest play testing both and chaos and dark angles to see if you like ether. also ask any one there friendly if they would be willing to let you try out there extra armys (ive done this once before) to see if you like them id suggest looking up fluff( back story) on http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page#.UKv1-YZRQdx i personally try to stay away from marines because every one and their granny likes to play them . and dont worry about painting you get beter as ya go i look at some of my older modles and just

to my self and thing (what was i doing).

**d3m01iti0n**

The box sets are a great deal, but I think including DA was a bad move. When I started on AoBR it was generic SM and Orks. I bought it for both armies so I could learn the game with friends. I stuck with Orks and painted the SMs as Ultramarines because I was new to the hobby and didnt know what I wanted. I only repainted the SMs later as BT. I have since replaced the AoBR models and they sit on the shelf.

The point is while this box set is great for existing DA players and people wanting to get into the game, it limits your options. With the Chaos Marines you can get yourself a codex, perhaps some bits, and you have a ton of options as to who they are/how to paint them. With DA included you get stuck with ONE option due to their trim (robes, helmet wings, etc). With AoBR you could paint the Marines as any vanilla or non-codex Marine army, because they were basic power armor. I just feel this was a bad move on GWs part. Plus the AoBR guys were basically simplified models and DV is all new spiffy stuff. Kind of a kick in the ass for AoBR owners.

**CuddlySquig**

Need advice? Play orks.
*reads question* oh.
If you're 14, don't worry too much about the paint job on your army. Don't let that point be a detractor. Most kids that I've seen don't even paint their armies.

**Lawlet**

d3m01iti0n wrote:
The box sets are a great deal, but I think including DA was a bad move. When I started on AoBR it was generic SM and Orks. I bought it for both armies so I could learn the game with friends. I stuck with Orks and painted the SMs as Ultramarines because I was new to the hobby and didnt know what I wanted. I only repainted the SMs later as BT. I have since replaced the AoBR models and they sit on the shelf.

The point is while this box set is great for existing DA players and people wanting to get into the game, it limits your options. With the Chaos Marines you can get yourself a codex, perhaps some bits, and you have a ton of options as to who they are/how to paint them. With DA included you get stuck with ONE option due to their trim (robes, helmet wings, etc). With AoBR you could paint the Marines as any vanilla or non-codex Marine army, because they were basic power armor. I just feel this was a bad move on GWs part. Plus the AoBR guys were basically simplified models and DV is all new spiffy stuff. Kind of a kick in the ass for AoBR owners.

So you can't start with the black reach kit anymore? Is there a way to?

**d3m01iti0n**

Lawlet wrote:
d3m01iti0n wrote:
The box sets are a great deal, but I think including DA was a bad move. When I started on AoBR it was generic SM and Orks. I bought it for both armies so I could learn the game with friends. I stuck with Orks and painted the SMs as Ultramarines because I was new to the hobby and didnt know what I wanted. I only repainted the SMs later as BT. I have since replaced the AoBR models and they sit on the shelf.

The point is while this box set is great for existing DA players and people wanting to get into the game, it limits your options. With the Chaos Marines you can get yourself a codex, perhaps some bits, and you have a ton of options as to who they are/how to paint them. With DA included you get stuck with ONE option due to their trim (robes, helmet wings, etc). With AoBR you could paint the Marines as any vanilla or non-codex Marine army, because they were basic power armor. I just feel this was a bad move on GWs part. Plus the AoBR guys were basically simplified models and DV is all new spiffy stuff. Kind of a kick in the ass for AoBR owners.

So you can't start with the black reach kit anymore? Is there a way to?

You would have to find one for starters. And the rulebook it comes with is 5th edition. Honestly my best advice is start small with squad kits, buy your codex of choice and a 6th rulebook (whether its the $60 fancy one or a cheap mini one from the internet) practice your painting, and get your game on through your local hobby shop. Or look for EBay and Craigslist deals on large army sets. If youve got the money and friends willing to learn, say to hell with it and buy Dark Vengence. Just remember youre pigeonholed on Space Marine choices until you pick up more sets.

**Lawlet**

d3m01iti0n wrote:
Lawlet wrote:
d3m01iti0n wrote:
The box sets are a great deal, but I think including DA was a bad move. When I started on AoBR it was generic SM and Orks. I bought it for both armies so I could learn the game with friends. I stuck with Orks and painted the SMs as Ultramarines because I was new to the hobby and didnt know what I wanted. I only repainted the SMs later as BT. I have since replaced the AoBR models and they sit on the shelf.

The point is while this box set is great for existing DA players and people wanting to get into the game, it limits your options. With the Chaos Marines you can get yourself a codex, perhaps some bits, and you have a ton of options as to who they are/how to paint them. With DA included you get stuck with ONE option due to their trim (robes, helmet wings, etc). With AoBR you could paint the Marines as any vanilla or non-codex Marine army, because they were basic power armor. I just feel this was a bad move on GWs part. Plus the AoBR guys were basically simplified models and DV is all new spiffy stuff. Kind of a kick in the ass for AoBR owners.

So you can't start with the black reach kit anymore? Is there a way to?

You would have to find one for starters. And the rulebook it comes with is 5th edition. Honestly my best advice is start small with squad kits, buy your codex of choice and a 6th rulebook (whether its the $60 fancy one or a cheap mini one from the internet) practice your painting, and get your game on through your local hobby shop. Or look for EBay and Craigslist deals on large army sets. If youve got the money and friends willing to learn, say to hell with it and buy Dark Vengence. Just remember youre pigeonholed on Space Marine choices until you pick up more sets.

Solid advice, thanks. I would need paints, but if I could get black reach in new condition is it worth it? How much would be a good price for it? Would it work if I just got a new rulebook?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
How much would it cost to get startedup if you bought everythin individually?

**Skinnereal**

Look for AoBR if you want to play Marines, as the Dreadnought in it is the only official way to get the standard Multi-melta loadout. The Marines themselves are generic, and can be used for almost any chapter.
Ork players will usually want the Ork models from the set, as again, the Dekkkoptas in the box are hard to find.

The templated and whipping stick (for measuring) are the same in all starter sets, to don't worry about that.
The only problem is the rulebook, being the old version.

If you bought everything from AoBR individually, you'd be paying ~£100. Don't do it.

As they have said above, make sure you know which army you want, and if it's DA or Chaoos Marines, get the DV box.
If you want Orks or any other Marines (even DA), see if you can find AoBR for £50 or less.
Grab some cast-off models, and practice painting.

**ArbitorIan**

Ailaros wrote:
So, for starting a new army, I'll give you my stock advice:

You should start by looking at aesthetics.

Look at the army, and decide what kind of minis you like. You will likely be spending a lot of time painting them, and you're going to have to look at them every time they play. If you think that ork models look silly, then don't play orks, or if you like anime, then perhaps a tau army is for you.

Read some fluff about the armies you like the miniatures of. The rulebook gives a bit, but I'd go to a local game store and just sit down and read the front part of every codex. If you explain to any store worker who might complain that you're researching starting a new 40k army, they'll shut up immediately.

The background to the different armies can be very, very different, from the ultra-elite loyalist demon army of grey knights to the green, scottish hooligans in space of the orks. Some of the dry british humor and general grimdark has a lot of flavor to it. Find something you can really get your imagination behind.

Thirdly, once you've done this, consider play styles. Do you want an army of heroes that beats face and dies epically? Do you want an army of all vehicles trundling across the plain? Do you just want something that gets in there and rips your opponent's stuff in half with their bare hands and chainsaw swords? Many different codices can do many different styles, but if there's something in specific you want, that might help narrow things down for you.

Once you get to this point, you'll probably be down to just a few armies to pick from. Once here, you should look at some examples of lists that people bring, and see if there are some commonly-used units that look exciting to you.

Quoted for truth - this is good advice.

The only important thing when you start if that you like the army you play, the models, the background. It can be an expensive and long lasting hobby, and your motivation to paint will be greatly improved by having an army you actually like.

The things you need are - the rulebook, the Codex for your army, some models, and some paints. The basic paint set, mentioned in an earlier post, might be a great way of seeing if you enjoy painting (you'll need some spray primer as well) but remember that there are plenty of people in the hobby who don't enjoy painting, and just paint their models to the minimum standard. So if you don't like spending hours painting, that's ok too.

If you DO want to go with Dark Angels or Chaos, then Dark Vengeance is a really good start, and well worth the money. Even better if you have a friend who wants to be the other army - you could buy one each and swap the unwanted models, or share one set and get a spare mini-rulebook and templates from eBay. I wouldn't bother with AOBR - the DV set has better value and all the books/rules in AOBR are out of date.

Don't worry about looking for army lists, don't worry about which army is the most powerful. Get a small force and get a few games under your belt first, and then all those army lists and tactics articles on the forum will start to make sense. For now, just get models you like the look of.

Also, look for a club. Your GW might host after-school 'beginners nights' every week, but lots of the non-GW clubs are good too. Post in our 'Find a Game' thread for clubs in Belfast, or see if there is one at your school. Having a regular club is a great way too keep motivated and see other cool armies, and if it's outside a GW, you won't have to bother with the constant sales pitch!