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So I'm in a leauge that starts at 500pts. I really have no experience with low points games so how will a standard penance Russ do? My list is:
Prymaris Psyker

Veteran Squad: 3x Plasmaguns

Platoon
Platoon Command Squad
Infantry Squad: Plasmagun
Infantry Squad: Plasmagun

Lehman Russ Battle Tank

It can do very well, but it's an all or nothing approach. If your opponent has effective anti-AV 14 and blows it up quickly you're probably going to lose the game since the rest of your army isn't very strong with the single tank taking up so many points. On the other hand, if they make the popular assumption that you don't see tanks in a 500 point game (for example, marine armies can't really do it because of their expensive troops) and leave the melta at home that LR is pretty much invulnerable and will battlecannon stuff off the table every turn.

I agree with te above post. I have used an exterminator with bolter spoons at 500 points to some success. Armored sentinels work well at 500 points.

I usually bring a demolisher to 500pt games.

Not much anti-tank to threaten them, so I've got plenty of time to roll over folks.

I suggest looking out for anyone bringing landspeeders or attack bikes with MM on them though; dangerous.

I would bring demolisher if you have the points, heres why:

1) your current list doesnt have anti AV14, although you might not see this, you'd be wasting plasma shots at tanks trying to pen or glance to death, this tank brings S10

2) front armor is higher I believe

3) you should lose the plasma guns in the platoon and replace them with 1Flamer and 1 AC each. this helps against monstrous creatures, close hordes and assaults.

ImpGuardPanzies wrote:
I would bring demolisher if you have the points, heres why:

3) you should lose the plasma guns in the platoon and replace them with 1Flamer and 1 AC each. this helps against monstrous creatures, close hordes and assaults.

Please explain to me how a flamer and an AC do anything against monstrous creatures compared to the plasma gun.

AC has same S, but allows you to get the flamer/GL/Sniper which allows for more flexibility in your army. And it removes the possibility of killing your own men. 36 models on the field and 5 of them have special weapons, all 5 could kill themselves, leaving you with no special weapons.

ImpGuardPanzies wrote:
AC has same S, but allows you to get the flamer/GL/Sniper which allows for more flexibility in your army. And it removes the possibility of killing your own men. 36 models on the field and 5 of them have special weapons, all 5 could kill themselves, leaving you with no special weapons.

Strength 7 isn't a big deal. You bring Plasma for the AP2, which guard always needs. 1 Plasma wound on a terminator already pays for the dead carrier and the gun. Plasma is never a bad investment.

AC's don't kill anything well, and flamers are crap except used offensively. Toting them as a "charge deterrent" is nothing significant and will leave you feeling lacking.

ImpGuardPanzies wrote:
AC has same S,

but ap4 so the MC will get their 3+ or 2+ save making the gun substantially worse at killing MCs.

but allows you to get the flamer/GL/Sniper which allows for more flexibility in your army.

You managed to name 2 of the worst special weapons to put in a squad. GLs and Snipers don't add flexibility, they add points, that's about it.

And it removes the possibility of killing your own men. 36 models on the field and 5 of them have special weapons, all 5 could kill themselves, leaving you with no special weapons.

Or statistically more likely, they'll hit their target and kill more than their points worth.

I hear the argument "but but but they might die!" too often, they're guardsmen. Get used to them dying. Fortune favors the brave, no risk, no reward, whatever idiom you choose the PG is still a great choice.

Also the "charge deterrent" idea on a flamer is pretty pathetic. No player with ever think "oh god I better not charge that unit, there's a flamer!" Guard aren't exactly good in CC, so pretty much any unit that charges them is going to wipe them out, whether or not something dies before the combat starts or not.

just hold back and wait for something big then put heavy bolter fire and swap a plasma cannon for battle cannon go left to right big to small

 Griddlelol wrote:


Also the "charge deterrent" idea on a flamer is pretty pathetic. No player with ever think "oh god I better not charge that unit, there's a flamer!" Guard aren't exactly good in CC, so pretty much any unit that charges them is going to wipe them out, whether or not something dies before the combat starts or not.

The only army I can think of that might weigh their options before charging Flamer equipped guard would be non-specialist Craftworld Eldar. They're mushier than Guard, don't have grenades and frankly suck in combat.

But I agree your overall point, flamers are a fine offensive weapon for their cost and for IG BS. I use flamers extensively as a way to stack up cheap wounds. I usually run stripped down PIS squads as objective campers to avoid leaving truly powerful infantry (Vets) on the back of the board.

 Stormrider wrote:


The only army I can think of that might weigh their options before charging Flamer equipped guard would be non-specialist Craftworld Eldar. They're mushier than Guard, don't have grenades and frankly suck in combat.

Those guys wouldn't charge anything though

flamers are a fine offensive weapon for their cost and for IG BS. I use flamers extensively as a way to stack up cheap wounds. I usually run stripped down PIS squads as objective campers to avoid leaving truly powerful infantry (Vets) on the back of the board.

This. Flamers are only really good en mass. 4 of them in a PIS has wiped out small MEQ or plague bearer squads in the past with a little luck, although the same guys have also failed to even put a wound down on some gaunts but that's another story. They're offensive weapons that don't stop people from charging you, ever, but are great at digging units out of cover.

I concur on trading the plasma in your infantry squads for flamers and autocannons. If you're worried about AV14 from your opponent, give your Vets meltaguns instead of plasma guns, and potentially trade the Russ to a Demolisher.

Getting that heavy unit in should wreck face at 500 points, almost no matter what it is. Plus your Platoon is worth 3 scoring units for one Troop slot. You'll do fine.

Using a LRBT in a low point game is great. With its range and s8 ap3 cannon your opponent will be greatly slowed when hes hugging every bit of cover hes got to try and advance.

I cannot back the trading of the plasma to autocannon flamer argument. That just seems like a really bad idea.

You're trading a powerful weapon that can kill pretty much everything but AV 13/14, for two crappier weapons that exclude the other from doing their job. And if you're saying "but the flamer is there to protect the autocannons!"... Really? Name one thing that's even remotely competent at assault that you're going to stop with a couple of flamers. Trukk boyz are probably the toughest thing you could stop, and even they would seriously mangle that unit after the overwatch resolved. Also remember that flamer has to be upfront to be used, meaning it can die very easily.

Of course, then you add in the fact that at 500pts, you really don't have much to spare to leave a ton of your troops sitting in the backfield, and that hurts as well. Plasma is handy in this situation because it lets you bring the pain on the move. If you tried to move up with the autocannon, you lose your ability to kill things, and may as well have left it at home.

OP here. First sorry about the typos. Breaking in a new phone, so autocorrect is acting up. Second thing the Russ worked extremely well against foot CSM.

I ran this list for fun vs my tau friend.

CCS
Vet Squad
Vet Squad

LRBT
LRBT

comes out to about 490 pts. I ended up winning because I killed his hammerhead which was the only chance he had of killing them. You basically rely on tabling them. The look you get when you show your list is priceless tho