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What would you say the pros/cons are of using the Black Mace on any model that can use it?

Put it on a DP an your away

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:
Put it on a DP an your away

Please re-read the subject again...

Pro -
Additional Demon weapon attacks.
That curse thingy killing more troops.

Cons
Expensive
Losing wounds to the demon in side.
The armour pen is not too good (numer of attacks makes up for this)
Curse thingy is not good against touogh opponents.
Nor against small units
Nor against cheap units

It make demon princes awesome but very expensive and more of a target. Possibly better suited on a lord or a bike lord when they have an other power weaon in the unit as back up.

Pros:
+ D6 extra Attacks as well as your 2CCW bonus
+ Cursed
+ Fleshbane

Cons:
- Ap4 unless it's on a DP
- Expensive depending on your loadout
- Daemon Weapons are risky anyway.

Personally, I'm all for them (I plan on putting on my Lord) but of course, it's all up to you really.

I'd rather use Black Mice.

 SgtSixkilla wrote:
I'd rather use Black Mice.

Well it's a demon weapon. It always comes with risk. Remember the mace always wounds on 2's and can wipe guys out around you, and insta gib your target. Of course its only ap 4, but that's not a big deal when you have tons of attacks.

Beyond that, putting in on a chaos lord is fun, and doesn't cost a bazillion points.

A sorcerer, while he can take it, doesn't make the most of it, due to low int.

Some say the only way to put the mace in play is to use a demon prince, and while the demon prince needs wings and armor, he's pricey, plus doesn't have eternal warrior, meaning he can die to win str 10 hit. The demon prince also doesn't come with greandes, something everyone seems to forget.

Now if you go nurgle, you can get grenades. Some use psy powers to avoid the instant death from str 10, but this requires level 2-3 (again, more points) and isn't always going to work, as you roll randomly for powers.

The only final thing I will say is using the black mace with anything nurgle marked, plus allying in epidemius. At 20 nurgle made kills, all attacks ignore armor, including the black mace.

The big drawback is that you can't get enough of them. It's horrible that my 4 CLs can't all have one in a 20k point game.

The main pro is the potential number of attacks you can get from it, and the main con would probably be the fact that you could end up killing yourself. Still, I always put on on my lord. The number of attacks I get is usually more than enough to put at least a couple wounds down, and then anyone nearby has a chance of losing a wound with no saves. Even against marines you can do some serious damage.

Pros:
-Good vs non MEQs armies

Cons:
-High cost for a weapon with a low probability to wound MEQs (avg of 1.29 wounds on MEQs, compared to 1.33 wounds from a mere power sword)
-Chance to get wounded while wielding it

On its use; stick it on a jump pack Lord (with either the Mark of Khorne/Slaanesh) and merrily hop about the battlefield twatting one unit after another. Alternatively, in larger games, or if you're willing to take the risk, stick it on a Daemon Prince with wings and let things get incredibly beardy. I say jump pack and wings so as to prevent any danger to your own troops and for maneuverability (I like to hide the lord amongst the basic troops before jumping out when close enough). The weapon can easily kill a squad of basic troops a turn (though it still has its merits against units with a higher toughness) and is my favorite weapon of the lot (just for how bent it is...).

One pro not listed yet : it is the only daemon weapon available to anonymous CSM characters not bearing the MoK.

But as a CC weapon, I'd go for a MoK / axe of yeehaa frenzy anyday vs. a black mace.

 juraigamer wrote:
Now if you go nurgle, you can get grenades. Some use psy powers to avoid the instant death from str 10, but this requires level 2-3 (again, more points) and isn't always going to work, as you roll randomly for powers.

I don't have my codex with me right now but I've seen people mention this a few times and I believe it's wrong

1. Blight Grenades are Mark of Nurgle only and you cannot give marks to Daemon Princes.
2. Blight Grenades are special issue wargear and you cannot give special issue wargear to Daemon Princes.

Again, I don't have my book right now but I think this is the case. No grenades for DP's.

0.o Uh, most of the daemon weapons are for unmarked characters; its only the Axe of Blind Fury and the Scroll of Magnus that require marks...

murphs wrote:

 juraigamer wrote:
Now if you go nurgle, you can get grenades. Some use psy powers to avoid the instant death from str 10, but this requires level 2-3 (again, more points) and isn't always going to work, as you roll randomly for powers.

I don't have my codex with me right now but I've seen people mention this a few times and I believe it's wrong

1. Blight Grenades are Mark of Nurgle only and you cannot give marks to Daemon Princes.
2. Blight Grenades are special issue wargear and you cannot give special issue wargear to Daemon Princes.

Again, I don't have my book right now but I think this is the case. No grenades for DP's.

I was thinking of the wrong codex.

No grenades for any demon prince, their decent into suck is confirmed.

=P No Manreaper or Lash either.

On a lord? A fudgeton of attacks, and murder on any non 3+ army. In fact, even against 3+ armies, it will end up doing more wounds than a power weapon or fist. Not as much as the Axe of Blind Fury, but really, the Axe is pretty much the ultimate melee weapon, and the only reason to go for a Khorne lord.

If you KNOW you are playing against non SM armies, it's an amazing weapon. Particularly because it does not really need a mark.

AP4 REALLY hurts it though. This is largely because of Champion of Chaos, which means you need your HQs to be atleast compitent in melee. Given how many enemy HQs are ATLEAST 3+, and often 2+, it's a death sentence, unless you have a particularly adept duelst sargent with you, like a slaneesh CSM or a slaneesh biker.

The risk of crippling your chaos lord in a critical duel with a roll of 1 is also there. With the Axe, it still generally ok, as even with WS1 you'll still propably get an attack in, that will kill the enemy PF sarge. With the mace, no bonus attacks and WS1 means that the enemy sarge will more than likely survive and PF you to oblivion. This is why I would suggest, if you accept the risk and go for the Black Mace, go for it with a Nurgle or Biker lord. Preferably both. He's very unlikely to get instakilled, so he'll do a lot of damage, and the champ can provably do all the duels pretty well with T5-6. If you are lucky enough to play against Orks or Nids, the Mace gives the Bikers/Plagues the ability to devastate hordes, which is something they dont normally have.

Finally, as everyone said, the DP with Black Mace combo is worth reiterating... it's AMAZING. Given how much you pay for the DP as is, being able to give him that many more Smash attacks(as all the bonus attacks will be Smash too, you dont half down there!), is brilliant. It pretty much ensures it will do it's job as a fragile beastick, as it WILL kill any HQ, deathstar and vehicle in a turn.

In conclusion, great on a DP, risky on a Chaos lord unless you know you are not facing MeQs, but good on a Nurgle Lord or Slaneesh Biker Lord, no reason to go for it with any other HQ.

DrDuckman wrote:
On a lord? A fudgeton of attacks, and murder on any non 3+ army. In fact, even against 3+ armies, it will end up doing more wounds than a power weapon or fist. Not as much as the Axe of Blind Fury, but really, the Axe is pretty much the ultimate melee weapon, and the only reason to go for a Khorne lord.

Unfortunately the maths are against you on this one, the black mace barely do more wounds than a power sword against 3+ armies, even assuming you roll 6's on the +Attacks you end with almost the same result as a power sword.