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1 in 2000 people are born with a mixture of both genitals, in most high income countries the common practice is for the doctor to assign and alter the baby to one gender without the child's consent (it's treated as a medical emergency). Anyways who do you think should choose the gender?
The doctor, the family or the child? And if you picked child what age should they be able to decide there gender (or leave it if they want to)? I think the child should get to decide if they want there body altered it should not be the decision of the doctor or family, but I'm not sure what age they
should be allowed to make that decision. We live in society where race, religion, ability and sexuality are becoming more tolerated should intersexuals be next the step (hermaphrodites and pseudo-hermaphrodites) up?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/23 20:31:51
It's bad enough growing up with glasses or other small 'differences' but imagine the effect of being that different to everyone around you? the child could develop serious issue due to that.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/11/23 20:26:35
The problem with choosing at birth is that they look at the genitals and decide which it looks more like. How they develop with hormones later on is harder to predict and there have been several big mistakes made this way particularly when doctors and family attempt to pressurise the person to act like the gender they have been assigned. It's difficult to say, perhaps its best to leave them neither one thing nor the other until they are older to see how they feel and how their body develops. Yes it'll be something they won't want put around the classroom but that's probably better to tolerate for a few years than living with the consequences of misguided corrective surgery when very young. Undergoing surgery should really be their decision at this point, they may not actually wish to be altered either way.
And if you prevent people correcting children for medical reasons at birth, where does that leave cosmetic surgery such as circumcision? For some reason, people are very keen to cling onto that needless surgery being carried out on their children. That should certainly be scrapped until the person is able to make such a decision for themselves, and no exceptions for 'religious' or 'cultural' reasons. It's needless surgery on your child's genitalia.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/23 20:33:45
Howard A Treesong wrote: The problem with choosing at birth is that they look at the genitals and decide which it looks more like. How they develop with hormones later on is harder to predict and there have been several big mistakes made this way particularly when doctors and family attempt to pressurise the person to act like the gender they have been assigned. It's difficult to say, perhaps its best to leave them neither one thing nor the other until they are older to see how they feel and how their body develops. Yes it'll be something they won't want put around the classroom but that's probably better to tolerate for a few years than living with the consequences of misguided corrective surgery when very young.
It would be a matter of weighing the potential psychological damage vs the potential damage developmentally, It'll never be an easy choice.
I would think that it would be best to wait until the child has undergone sexual maturity, and then they can choose.
Otherwise you could have one of those "man trapped in a woman’s body/woman trapped in a man’s body scenarios"( I know that’s an oversimplification but you get my drift).
Howard A Treesong wrote: The problem with choosing at birth is that they look at the genitals and decide which it looks more like. How they develop with hormones later on is harder to predict and there have been several big mistakes made this way particularly when doctors and family attempt to pressurise the person to act like the gender they have been assigned. It's difficult to say, perhaps its best to leave them neither one thing nor the other until they are older to see how they feel and how their body develops. Yes it'll be something they won't want put around the classroom but that's probably better to tolerate for a few years than living with the consequences of misguided corrective surgery when very young.
It would be a matter of weighing the potential psychological damage vs the potential damage developmentally, It'll never be an easy choice.
InquisitorVaron wrote: The doctor it would cause friction in later life for the child.
Best they don't know.
You see I think it's society that should have to adapt not the child, hermaphrodites and pseudo-hermaphrodites should be accepted in society.
By adults sure. But children will always single out those who are different and will tease them relentlessly.
I didn't go arround grade school flashing kids to let them know what gender I am. Surely no one need know if you keep your two sets of tackle in your pants.
Howard A Treesong wrote: The problem with choosing at birth is that they look at the genitals and decide which it looks more like. How they develop with hormones later on is harder to predict and there have been several big mistakes made this way particularly when doctors and family attempt to pressurise the person to act like the gender they have been assigned. It's difficult to say, perhaps its best to leave them neither one thing nor the other until they are older to see how they feel and how their body develops. Yes it'll be something they won't want put around the classroom but that's probably better to tolerate for a few years than living with the consequences of misguided corrective surgery when very young.
It would be a matter of weighing the potential psychological damage vs the potential damage developmentally, It'll never be an easy choice.
InquisitorVaron wrote: The doctor it would cause friction in later life for the child.
Best they don't know.
You see I think it's society that should have to adapt not the child, hermaphrodites and pseudo-hermaphrodites should be accepted in society.
By adults sure. But children will always single out those who are different and will tease them relentlessly.
I didn't go arround grade school flashing kids to let them know what gender I am. Surely no one need know if you keep your two sets of tackle in your pants.
Yeah but what about getting changed at a swimming pool's change room? That being said how does an intersexual know which bathroom or change room to go to?
Howard A Treesong wrote: The problem with choosing at birth is that they look at the genitals and decide which it looks more like. How they develop with hormones later on is harder to predict and there have been several big mistakes made this way particularly when doctors and family attempt to pressurise the person to act like the gender they have been assigned. It's difficult to say, perhaps its best to leave them neither one thing nor the other until they are older to see how they feel and how their body develops. Yes it'll be something they won't want put around the classroom but that's probably better to tolerate for a few years than living with the consequences of misguided corrective surgery when very young.
It would be a matter of weighing the potential psychological damage vs the potential damage developmentally, It'll never be an easy choice.
InquisitorVaron wrote: The doctor it would cause friction in later life for the child.
Best they don't know.
You see I think it's society that should have to adapt not the child, hermaphrodites and pseudo-hermaphrodites should be accepted in society.
By adults sure. But children will always single out those who are different and will tease them relentlessly.
I didn't go arround grade school flashing kids to let them know what gender I am. Surely no one need know if you keep your two sets of tackle in your pants.
Yeah but what about getting changed at a swimming pool's change room? That being said how does an intersexual know which bathroom or change room to go to?
Change in a restroom? Go to the pool with your swimsuit on under your normal cloths? As for which changeroom to go to, people don't seem to mind when other people bring their prepubesent kids with them into a bathroom or changeroom.
Howard A Treesong wrote: The problem with choosing at birth is that they look at the genitals and decide which it looks more like. How they develop with hormones later on is harder to predict and there have been several big mistakes made this way particularly when doctors and family attempt to pressurise the person to act like the gender they have been assigned. It's difficult to say, perhaps its best to leave them neither one thing nor the other until they are older to see how they feel and how their body develops. Yes it'll be something they won't want put around the classroom but that's probably better to tolerate for a few years than living with the consequences of misguided corrective surgery when very young.
It would be a matter of weighing the potential psychological damage vs the potential damage developmentally, It'll never be an easy choice.
InquisitorVaron wrote: The doctor it would cause friction in later life for the child.
Best they don't know.
You see I think it's society that should have to adapt not the child, hermaphrodites and pseudo-hermaphrodites should be accepted in society.
By adults sure. But children will always single out those who are different and will tease them relentlessly.
I didn't go arround grade school flashing kids to let them know what gender I am. Surely no one need know if you keep your two sets of tackle in your pants.
Yeah but what about getting changed at a swimming pool's change room? That being said how does an intersexual know which bathroom or change room to go to?
Change in a restroom? Go to the pool with your swimsuit on under your normal cloths? As for which changeroom to go to, people don't seem to mind when other people bring their prepubesent kids with them into a bathroom or changeroom.
What about public school trips?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/11/23 20:51:37
InquisitorVaron wrote: The doctor it would cause friction in later life for the child.
Best they don't know.
You see I think it's society that should have to adapt not the child, hermaphrodites and pseudo-hermaphrodites should be accepted in society.
Of course they should, they aren't immoral or evil or anything like that, they are simply born 'differently'.
Its a hard one though, its probably easier just to let the doctor or parents decide, and never let the child know, if thats possible.
*they as in society...
What happens if/when the child finds out later?
Then they get very upset and probably hate their parents, maybe themselves and become depressed.
It would obviously work best if they never knew. Which is quite probably isn't very realistic.
It certainly isn't an easy issue to find an answer for.
Howard A Treesong wrote: The problem with choosing at birth is that they look at the genitals and decide which it looks more like. How they develop with hormones later on is harder to predict and there have been several big mistakes made this way particularly when doctors and family attempt to pressurise the person to act like the gender they have been assigned. It's difficult to say, perhaps its best to leave them neither one thing nor the other until they are older to see how they feel and how their body develops. Yes it'll be something they won't want put around the classroom but that's probably better to tolerate for a few years than living with the consequences of misguided corrective surgery when very young.
It would be a matter of weighing the potential psychological damage vs the potential damage developmentally, It'll never be an easy choice.
InquisitorVaron wrote: The doctor it would cause friction in later life for the child.
Best they don't know.
You see I think it's society that should have to adapt not the child, hermaphrodites and pseudo-hermaphrodites should be accepted in society.
By adults sure. But children will always single out those who are different and will tease them relentlessly.
I didn't go arround grade school flashing kids to let them know what gender I am. Surely no one need know if you keep your two sets of tackle in your pants.
Yeah but what about getting changed at a swimming pool's change room? That being said how does an intersexual know which bathroom or change room to go to?
Change in a restroom? Go to the pool with your swimsuit on under your normal cloths? As for which changeroom to go to, people don't seem to mind when other people bring their prepubesent kids with them into a bathroom or changeroom.
Howard A Treesong wrote: The problem with choosing at birth is that they look at the genitals and decide which it looks more like. How they develop with hormones later on is harder to predict and there have been several big mistakes made this way particularly when doctors and family attempt to pressurise the person to act like the gender they have been assigned. It's difficult to say, perhaps its best to leave them neither one thing nor the other until they are older to see how they feel and how their body develops. Yes it'll be something they won't want put around the classroom but that's probably better to tolerate for a few years than living with the consequences of misguided corrective surgery when very young.
It would be a matter of weighing the potential psychological damage vs the potential damage developmentally, It'll never be an easy choice.
InquisitorVaron wrote: The doctor it would cause friction in later life for the child.
Best they don't know.
You see I think it's society that should have to adapt not the child, hermaphrodites and pseudo-hermaphrodites should be accepted in society.
By adults sure. But children will always single out those who are different and will tease them relentlessly.
I didn't go arround grade school flashing kids to let them know what gender I am. Surely no one need know if you keep your two sets of tackle in your pants.
Yeah but what about getting changed at a swimming pool's change room? That being said how does an intersexual know which bathroom or change room to go to?
Change in a restroom? Go to the pool with your swimsuit on under your normal cloths? As for which changeroom to go to, people don't seem to mind when other people bring their prepubesent kids with them into a bathroom or changeroom.
InquisitorVaron wrote: The doctor it would cause friction in later life for the child.
Best they don't know.
You see I think it's society that should have to adapt not the child, hermaphrodites and pseudo-hermaphrodites should be accepted in society.
Of course they should, they aren't immoral or evil or anything like that, they are simply born 'differently'.
Its a hard one though, its probably easier just to let the doctor or parents decide, and never let the child know, if thats possible.
*they as in society...
What happens if/when the child finds out later?
Then they get very upset and probably hate their parents, maybe themselves and become depressed.
It would obviously work best if they never knew. Which is quite probably isn't very realistic.
It certainly isn't an easy issue to find an answer for.
There's also some people who'll feel the doctor made the right decision as well, and are happy with the operation they got.
Would certainly be easier to decide if making the choice at birth averted serious problems but medication isn't a huge burden. Something outrightly practical to tip the scales.
Tough choice. On the one hand, it's just a messed up situation to be in and even worse since the child has no control over how they're born. Just making the decision seems like it would avoid a lot of hassle and emotional distress.
But then there's the whole right of the child thing.
InquisitorVaron wrote: The doctor it would cause friction in later life for the child.
Best they don't know.
You see I think it's society that should have to adapt not the child, hermaphrodites and pseudo-hermaphrodites should be accepted in society.
Of course they should, they aren't immoral or evil or anything like that, they are simply born 'differently'.
Its a hard one though, its probably easier just to let the doctor or parents decide, and never let the child know, if thats possible.
*they as in society...
What happens if/when the child finds out later?
Then they get very upset and probably hate their parents, maybe themselves and become depressed.
It would obviously work best if they never knew. Which is quite probably isn't very realistic.
It certainly isn't an easy issue to find an answer for.
There's also some people who'll feel the doctor made the right decision as well, and are happy with the operation they got.
Oh, I guess that makes it alright then.
I suppose it will come as a great relief to those who feel.... sigh
I know he wasn't born as a intersex child but it relates to the discussion of a doctor choosing the sex of a child and then what happens when that information if withheld from a child.
How many of us have looked at their own medical records for no apparent reason. Obviously the flaw in the never find out bit is when your seriously ill and have a loud mouth doctor.
The worst thing that could happen is they find out.
If they think they were given the wrong gender gays and lesbians and bi-sexuals are accepted now.
InquisitorVaron wrote: The doctor it would cause friction in later life for the child.
Best they don't know.
You see I think it's society that should have to adapt not the child, hermaphrodites and pseudo-hermaphrodites should be accepted in society.
Of course they should, they aren't immoral or evil or anything like that, they are simply born 'differently'.
Its a hard one though, its probably easier just to let the doctor or parents decide, and never let the child know, if thats possible.
*they as in society...
What happens if/when the child finds out later?
Then they get very upset and probably hate their parents, maybe themselves and become depressed.
It would obviously work best if they never knew. Which is quite probably isn't very realistic.
It certainly isn't an easy issue to find an answer for.
There's also some people who'll feel the doctor made the right decision as well, and are happy with the operation they got.
Oh, I guess that makes it alright then.
I suppose it will come as a great relief to those who feel.... sigh
I know he wasn't born as a intersex child but it relates to the discussion of a doctor choosing the sex of a child and then what happens when that information if withheld from a child.
I was actually looking for that article when I was reading this.
I believe the child should have the choice, another person choosing what sex they should be can cause tremendous psychological trauma to a child.
I would actually assume that hermaphrodites will become much less common in the near future as natal medicine advances. Seeing as hermaphrodites and homosexuals arise, in part, due to in the womb conditions it isn't far fetched that they would be able to correct for any abnormalities to avoid those kind of conditions, similar to how down syndrome can be screened for today. Although currently the only cure for that is abortion.
I think this may open a monstrous can of worms though.
The child. I'm sure whatever hormonal inbalance comes out of not 'fixing' this can be alleviated with the correct medication. Wait until the child is old enough to figure out which gender he/she associates the most with, if any, and then let him choose to have the correct operation.
Maybe they won't want any procedures?
AH! Just thought about the most ridiculous Civil law scenario ever : hermaphrodite kid who'se been 'fixed' sue his parents or doctor for impediment to future income for having 'fixed' him/her, thus making it impossible for him/her to make it big in herma porn.
Also, Slaanesh smiles upon this thread.
[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator.
KHADOR 
X-Wing (Empire Strong) 
