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Made in us
[DCM]
Secret Squirrel






Leerstetten, Germany

So the GOP controls the House, the Senate, and the White House. How in the holy feth will the people delude themselves into thinking this was the Democrats fault? I know they will, but that just shows partisan stupidity.

There ACA passed with 219 votes, and the Democrats were at fault for not working with the GOP.

There are 237 Republicans in the house now, more votes than voted in favor of the ACA, and it's still the Democrats fault for not working with the GOP.
   
Made in us
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot




On moon miranda.

 Dreadwinter wrote:
 Gordon Shumway wrote:
The smart thing for the Dems to do right now is to craft a bill that would close all the gaps in the AHA, and advertise the hell out of it. Show the GOP that one doesn't have to be in power to actually get some work done.


Furthermore, I don't think they know what they are doing either.
This is almost certainly correct

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 Gordon Shumway wrote:
The smart thing for the Dems to do right now is to craft a bill that would close all the gaps in the AHA, and advertise the hell out of it. Show the GOP that one doesn't have to be in power to actually get some work done.
That would be great but I don't think the Democrats are that competant.

It's a dilemma for Democrats...

They've defended it for being the best thing ever... so, if it's so great, what is there to fix?

Ironic thing there... Trump threatened to go to the Democrats for Healthcare reform.

Single payer anyone?

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







Across the Pond, I've not really seen the democrats ever really saying that the ACA is the best thing ever. It's more, "this is the best thing we could practically accomplish...."

Now, potentially, not being in power, they're not 100% limited by reality (The Republicans certainly weren't, or aren't), so could potentially put forward several levels of bills, including "practical reform" up until, "ideal situation with gold plated brass buckles on."
   
Made in us
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot




On moon miranda.

Yeah I don't recall anyone saying it was "the best thing ever", but rather "it's better than what was there before and nobody can agree on anything else".

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine






 whembly wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 Gordon Shumway wrote:
The smart thing for the Dems to do right now is to craft a bill that would close all the gaps in the AHA, and advertise the hell out of it. Show the GOP that one doesn't have to be in power to actually get some work done.
That would be great but I don't think the Democrats are that competant.

It's a dilemma for Democrats...

They've defended it for being the best thing ever... so, if it's so great, what is there to fix?

Ironic thing there... Trump threatened to go to the Democrats for Healthcare reform.

Single payer anyone?


I think exactly zero democrats ever have said that, Whembly. Even Obama. Didn't bother reading his speech this last week or pay attention to any of his comments over the past six years, did you? Of course it's hard to listen with your fingers in your ears.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/25 02:34:32


Help me, Rhonda. HA! 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
 whembly wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 Gordon Shumway wrote:
The smart thing for the Dems to do right now is to craft a bill that would close all the gaps in the AHA, and advertise the hell out of it. Show the GOP that one doesn't have to be in power to actually get some work done.
That would be great but I don't think the Democrats are that competant.

It's a dilemma for Democrats...

They've defended it for being the best thing ever... so, if it's so great, what is there to fix?

Ironic thing there... Trump threatened to go to the Democrats for Healthcare reform.

Single payer anyone?


I think exactly zero democrats ever have said that, Whembly. Even Obama. Didn't bother reading his speech this last week or pay attention to any of his comments over the past six years, did you? Of course it's hard to listen with your fingers in your ears.

You going to sit there an argue that Obama/Democrats won't defend the ACA?

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







That's not the statement that was made.
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





I think the only person who has to equate 'defend' with 'insists is the best thing ever' is sitting in the White House.
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Compel wrote:
That's not the statement that was made.

Here's what I said:
They've defended it for being the best thing ever... so, if it's so great, what is there to fix?

A) all they do is defend it.

B) there are issues with the PPACA... so, where's their plans? Do they really acknowledge that there are real problems?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/25 03:04:22


Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Winged Kroot Vulture






They defend it because what was there before was not working.

They defend it because if Reps get their hands in it again they will not make it better for a large majority of Americans.

They know it is not the best thing ever, but it is better than nothing.

I'm back! 
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine






As I said, fingers in the ears. He quotes himself and doesn't see he is actually contradicting himself in the process. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

Help me, Rhonda. HA! 
   
Made in us
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot




On moon miranda.

An interesting article from Pew Research, ostensibly on the heavily leftward shift of younger generations like those under 35 relative to older generations like Boomers, but what I really find most interesting is how the extremes on both ends from all age groups have grown while those identifying more moderately or independently have decreased.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/03/20/a-wider-partisan-and-ideological-gap-between-younger-older-generations/


Now, in some ways I think definitions and people's perceptions of where certain positions actually are has changed or been appropriated to some extent, but in general it reflects an increasingly stark political polarization of the nation.

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
As I said, fingers in the ears. He quotes himself and doesn't see he is actually contradicting himself in the process. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

Buddy... if you want to take me to task for hyperbolically throwing in 'best thing ever'... be my guest.

You simply can't ignore that Democrats objected to any means to change/repeal/tweak the ACA if it comes from Republicans. They may acquiesce in the future since Obama isn't in office any more... *Shrug*


Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine






 whembly wrote:
 Gordon Shumway wrote:
As I said, fingers in the ears. He quotes himself and doesn't see he is actually contradicting himself in the process. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

Buddy... if you want to take me to task for hyperbolically throwing in 'best thing ever'... be my guest.

You simply can't ignore that Democrats objected to any means to change/repeal/tweak the ACA if it comes from Republicans. They may acquiesce in the future since Obama isn't in office any more... *Shrug*



So when called out on a lie, you fall down, kick and scream "hyperbole". Good to know. This is why people hate debating things with you.

So what tweaks did they offer up to improve the bill in the six years Obama was in office after it passed? All I saw were the 27? Bills put forward to repeal, knowing full well they would have gotten vetoed. They now have the floor. How many repeal bills have been put forward? Zero. They put a lame Frankenstein amendment monster up. And they themselves killed it. They have no interest whatsoever in trying to craft any sort of healthcare law. They don't care about it at all. They care that they could use it as a boogieman to really really gullible people to try to get votes.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/03/25 03:36:47


Help me, Rhonda. HA! 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
 whembly wrote:
 Gordon Shumway wrote:
As I said, fingers in the ears. He quotes himself and doesn't see he is actually contradicting himself in the process. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

Buddy... if you want to take me to task for hyperbolically throwing in 'best thing ever'... be my guest.

You simply can't ignore that Democrats objected to any means to change/repeal/tweak the ACA if it comes from Republicans. They may acquiesce in the future since Obama isn't in office any more... *Shrug*



So what tweaks did they offer up to improve the bill in the six years Obama was in office after it passed? All I saw were the 27? Bills put forward to repeal, knowing full well they would have gotten vetoed. They now have the floor. How many repeal bills have been put forward? Zero. They put a lame Frankenstein amendment monster up. And they themselves killed it. They have no interest whatsoever in trying to craft any sort of healthcare law. They don't care about it at all. They care that they could use it as a boogieman to really really gullible people to try to get votes.

Simply put... they went too fast and *that guy* in the White House was pushing for a win.

Don't be me wrong... this was a 'Here... hold my beer.... LEEEEEEEROOOOOY JEEEEEEEENKINS' moment for Republicans (and that guy squatting at the WH).

They'll have another bite at this apple, but I certainly hope they don't try to do an 'all-in-one-lets-cram-it-down' tactic.

... did you see Bob Menedez tweet?
Senator Bob Menendez ✔ @SenatorMenendez
Hey Republicans, don't worry, that burn is covered under the Affordable Care Act
2:53 PM - 24 Mar 2017





Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gordon Shumway wrote:

So when called out on a lie, you fall down, kick and scream "hyperbole". Good to know. This is why people hate debating things with you.

You know what, dakka has this useful little tool where you can unfriend me and put me on ignore.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/03/25 03:44:35


Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 Spinner wrote:
I think the only person who has to equate 'defend' with 'insists is the best thing ever' is sitting in the White House.


Plus the resident trump fanboy whembley

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/25 05:54:16


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

 feeder wrote:
 CptJake wrote:
 Tannhauser42 wrote:
And the GOP had those same fething 7 years to "get it right". How many more years do they need?


This is actually one of the sillier arguments. While Obama was Pres, there was ZERO incentive for R congress critters to 'get it right' as it would have been vetoed. Why waste the effort?

Up until the actual 2016 election was held, it looked like Trump would lose, again, why waste effort to 'get it right' if you plan on dealing with a Clinton POTUS and more vetoes?

So, they really haven't had 7 years in which it made sense to expend resources to 'get it right'.


Parties do not have plans on how to run various parts of government until they are actually in power? That seems a bad way to run a political party.

I'm tangentially connected to the local opposition party where I live, and it seems they have a whole slew of plans ready to go the second we vote them into office.


The point of going into politics is that you have got ideas about how things could be done better, and you need to get public support to put them into action. That means you need at least an outline of a plan to present to the public to garner votes.

The consistent Republican message, however, has been how truly awful the Democrats are. They have garnered their votes through some process of negativity and fear.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gordon Shumway wrote:
The smart thing for the Dems to do right now is to craft a bill that would close all the gaps in the AHA, and advertise the hell out of it. Show the GOP that one doesn't have to be in power to actually get some work done.


What actually are the gaps in ACA? It seems to me that they are mostly negative ideology based complaints from Republicans.

The way the thing has worked out in practice actually is fairly popular and successful. I know there are some young Dakkanauts resentful they are compelled to pay for insurance they don't need at the moment, but that is how insurance works.

If you want a national health system that covers the nation, it has to be paid for. You can do it through national taxation, or through individual private insurance, or you have to admit you don't want a system to cover everyone.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/03/25 07:34:23


I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut




One problem is that the ACA only mandates private insurance, and doesn't actually guarantee healthcare. Without strong price controls and demands on coverage you can end up with huge deductibles and little to show for it. Not every place has multiple insurance companies, either, so there can't even be the smallest possible excuse of "shopping around" for whatever you can afford.

Since insurance companies have a vested interest in not paying out it would need a lot of constant pressure to keep them compliant. And since one party actively hates the weak and the other has sworn they won't fight for them, prospects aren't good.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury





https://twitter.com/paparoach/status/845464996695883776


When we feel defeated we listen to Paul Ryan.


https://twitter.com/paparoach/status/845465143542611968


...but seriously Last Resort was written about suicide, if anyone is feeling defeated get help at @800273TALK


technically speaking Papa Roach are doing more for American mental health care than the Republican party currently.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/25 12:15:21


The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

Man, the midterms are going to be a bloodbath.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in ca
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Vancouver, BC

Paul Ryan pretty much shot his future presidential run in the foot, eh?

Sometimes i wonder what, if anything, goes through their heads.

 warboss wrote:
Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
 
   
Made in gb
Courageous Grand Master




-

I honestly don't know if I'm alive or dead, but I awoke this morning, to news that a GOP controlled House and Senate couldn't get their health care bill passed, and it was all the fault of GCHQ or Democrats or something...

It got weirder. Some GOP people were blaming the Democrats for not supporting them...

Did I just miss the last 7 years or something? Have I been in a coma or what?

Confused, and tired, I tried to fall asleep again, but this loud, mocking laughter, coming from the direction of the Obama residence, didn't help matters...

"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd 
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine






 Kilkrazy wrote:
 feeder wrote:
 CptJake wrote:
 Tannhauser42 wrote:
And the GOP had those same fething 7 years to "get it right". How many more years do they need?


This is actually one of the sillier arguments. While Obama was Pres, there was ZERO incentive for R congress critters to 'get it right' as it would have been vetoed. Why waste the effort?

Up until the actual 2016 election was held, it looked like Trump would lose, again, why waste effort to 'get it right' if you plan on dealing with a Clinton POTUS and more vetoes?

So, they really haven't had 7 years in which it made sense to expend resources to 'get it right'.


Parties do not have plans on how to run various parts of government until they are actually in power? That seems a bad way to run a political party.

I'm tangentially connected to the local opposition party where I live, and it seems they have a whole slew of plans ready to go the second we vote them into office.


The point of going into politics is that you have got ideas about how things could be done better, and you need to get public support to put them into action. That means you need at least an outline of a plan to present to the public to garner votes.

The consistent Republican message, however, has been how truly awful the Democrats are. They have garnered their votes through some process of negativity and fear.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gordon Shumway wrote:
The smart thing for the Dems to do right now is to craft a bill that would close all the gaps in the AHA, and advertise the hell out of it. Show the GOP that one doesn't have to be in power to actually get some work done.


What actually are the gaps in ACA? It seems to me that they are mostly negative ideology based complaints from Republicans.

The way the thing has worked out in practice actually is fairly popular and successful. I know there are some young Dakkanauts resentful they are compelled to pay for insurance they don't need at the moment, but that is how insurance works.

If you want a national health system that covers the nation, it has to be paid for. You can do it through national taxation, or through individual private insurance, or you have to admit you don't want a system to cover everyone.


What are the gaps in the ACA? Obama laid it out pretty well himself in his article in the Journal of the American Mediacal Association: http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2533698

Help me, Rhonda. HA! 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 Ustrello wrote:
Hopefully this will provide the implosion that the GOP needs and a new moderate party spawns and the right wing nationalist branch can fade into obscurity


The Republicans will come back together, re-united by their true passion - tax cuts for the wealthy. But how they play that tax cuts remains to be seen. If its just a case of slashing the highest income tax brackets and cutting CGT and dividends, with no care for the deficit impact, then that will cause some trouble but it will likely get through.

But Republicans haven't just been talking about cutting taxes, they've been talking about 'tax reform'. Of course, 'tax reform' is just code for reducing the tax burden on the rich, just like the Republican plan to reform healthcare was basically about reducing the tax burden on the rich. But reform also means real change, offsetting rate cuts with closed special exemptions. And like with healthcare reform, actual reform of the tax code is way harder than poor Mr Ryan realised until this last week. It means trying to cut allowances enjoyed by organised and influential special interest groups. It means working every single legislator, finding whatever mix of carrot and stick you need for each person, to stop them getting skittish about some clause or another that benefits industry in their district. It means realising that the final bill may piss off enough people in specific little ways, while the greater electorate doesn't appreciate the overall good, so you cop an electoral penalty even if you pass good legislation.

Based on what we've seen in the last week, I don't think Ryan is going to fail at tax reform, because he isn't even going to try. The Republicans have neither the competence or the stomach for a real legislative fight. All we'll see is a rate cut, and a huge spike in the deficit. And when Democrats win control back in 4 or 8 years, suddenly Republicans will become concerned about the deficit again.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/25 18:22:41


“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Kilkrazy wrote:

What actually are the gaps in ACA? It seems to me that they are mostly negative ideology based complaints from Republicans.

The way the thing has worked out in practice actually is fairly popular and successful. I know there are some young Dakkanauts resentful they are compelled to pay for insurance they don't need at the moment, but that is how insurance works.

If you want a national health system that covers the nation, it has to be paid for. You can do it through national taxation, or through individual private insurance, or you have to admit you don't want a system to cover everyone.


The biggest gap that I've seen, from someone who once worked in insurance, is that ACA does nothing to actually curb the rates people pay. I mean, the thinking is that if more people are insured, you can charge less per individual. This hasn't happened. Now, I do fully acknowledge that while rates still went up under ACA, they went up at a much slower rate than pre-ACA (although, IIRC, someone here posted a link to an article that muddies that water a bit, as that article claimed that the rate increases were already slowing down by the time ACA passed).

IMO, the US absolutely needs some kind of a national system, whether it has the appearances of the UK system, or the German system (and I mean fully adopting the German system, not just paying lip service the way ACA does).
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 whembly wrote:
Like Tom Cotton said: We don't need to get it fast, we need to get it right.

For the last 7 years, the GOP criticized Democrats for the way Obamacare was drafted and passed.

Up to this point, the 2017 GOP said "Here... hold my beer".


Yeah, Republicans were outraged about Democrats racing through ACA in just 13 months, with every version of the bill put on-line, with constant CBO costings for every variation, while holding a bare 36 public hearings on healthcare reform, and taking input from every industry group you can think of. When it came time for their own bill, Republicans tried to push it through in 21 days (extended to 22 days), with the draft version of the bill put on-line after it was presented to congress, and the revised version never publicly released, They released it without any CBO costing, attacked the CBO in anticipation of the terrible costings the bill would receive, and finally tried to push the revised version without any input from CBO. And of course, while writing the bill Republicans took input from not one single industry group.

It should be pretty clear to anyone who's making the slightest attempt to be honest about this that Republicans were shamelessly lying when they complained about the process in which ACA was passed. And it should be just as obvious that they are the most basic of hypocrits, as they think nothing of doing tens times worse what they once complained about Democrats doing.

There really is no alternative to the above but self deception.

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I thought the ACA mandates that a certain percentage of premiums go towards health care costs and if that percentage isn't met, refunds must be issued? That would drive costs down a bit...
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Secret Squirrel






Leerstetten, Germany

I think a big driver for the premium increases were the lackluster ineffective penalties for not having insurance. As long as it is cheaper, often much cheaper, to pay the penalty you will end up with people paying that rather than buying insurance. The penalty is supposed to increase the pool of healthy people requiring less spending by the insurance in order to drive down costs, but if it's cheaper to pay the penalty that won't happen.

I think the penalty should be adjusted to the average cost of insurance available on the plan in your state. But nobody wants to be the guy that takes one of the most unpopular parts of the ACA and cranks it to 11.
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 CptJake wrote:
This is actually one of the sillier arguments. While Obama was Pres, there was ZERO incentive for R congress critters to 'get it right' as it would have been vetoed. Why waste the effort?


What? These are meant to be professional legislators. They propose concepts, get industry feedback, win over elements of their own party, then formalise the concept with substantive detail and expert modelling. This is the process by which you first and foremost establish within your own party what it wants to do, and it is also the process that means the party has mature, practical legislation ready to when they do return to power.

I mean, you are right that the Republicans failed to have legislation close to ready, in fact they even failed to have any coherent policy positions. But the reason you give is comical, that they didn't bother because they didn't think they'd need. This isn't a bunch of c students at a party college, blowing off writing their talk because hopefully the tutor won't call on them to present in the next tutorial.

THe plain reality is that Republicans are completely unprepared to govern because they have become utterly dysfunctional. They are comfortable attacking Democrats along safe, ideological lines, but anything more than that means setting aside that safe ideological purity in order to write law that would politically and practically. Moving away from anything other than the strictest ideological position would mean getting called a RINO and risk getting primaried. There are few Republicans with the character and conviction to do that.

The question now is what the Republican base should do about this mess. So far, not just from your answer but a whole lot I've seen around, is to make up silly excuses. That might make you feel a little better in the short term, but it does nothing to give you a functioning party.

Hopefully sooner rather than later the part of personal responsibility will take some, and start doing the work needed to return to being a party capable of governance. But I've been watching the party dig deeper and deeper for a couple of decades now, I no longer have any idea where rock bottom might be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Breotan wrote:
The main problem is that many Republicans in the House and Senate want Obamacare tossed out entirely and are unwilling to settle for anything less. While this position sounds nice, it will never get to the President's desk because the Democrats have enough votes to sustain a filibuster in the Senate.


That's mistaken. While a complete repeal might be viable in the House (although you're assuming the more moderate House Republicans would support it as they did AHCA), in the Senate a complete repeal is not going to happen. Not because of a Democratic filibuster, but because there's a half dozen Republican senators who were on record as opposing AHCA because it was too extreme, they were particularly bothered by loss of medicaid expansion established by ACA. A complete ACA repeal would have that exact same problem, and be just as dead.

What Speaker Ryan wanted to do was essentially defund Obamacare by removing the individual mandate.


This is also mistaken. While AHCA did remove the individual mandate, the mandate was never the primary funding mechanism for ACA. It raised a small, almost irrelevant amount, about $10 billion, compared to the $200b raised in new taxes on high income earners, or the $150b raised on the health industry. The mandate is important not because it brings in money, but because it gives people who might otherwise coverage a reason to get insurance, this broadens the insurance base and pushes the average age of people in the scheme down.

Ryan was looking to defund ACA, but he was looking to do it by dumping all the other taxes, the 0.9% medicare tax increase, the 3.8% tax on high income earners. If Ryan had only wanted to dump the mandate, then he would have had no reason to drop the ACA subsidy scheme. But the reality is that this is Ryan and the Republican party, their reason for being is to cut taxes. And if cutting those taxes meant making insurance unaffordable for millions, then that's okay by them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gordon Shumway wrote:
The smart thing for the Dems to do right now is to craft a bill that would close all the gaps in the AHA, and advertise the hell out of it. Show the GOP that one doesn't have to be in power to actually get some work done.


Strengthening ACA would come through raising taxes a bit more to increase some subsidies, and also increasing the individual mandate. The former is a tough political sell, the latter is political suicide.

Democrats aren't always the cleverest of cats, but here the play is simple. Do nothing. Republicans just gifted Democrats one of the most amazing own goals in political history. There's nothing for Democrats to do here but reap the political windfall.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 whembly wrote:
It's a dilemma for Democrats...

They've defended it for being the best thing ever... so, if it's so great, what is there to fix?


That's a fairly contrived argument. Acknowledging that a policy has a sound base and has delivered health coverage to millions more people doesn't mean it becomes holy writ that cannot be touched or improved upon. Over time cracks will show in any system, either because they weren't perfectly written, or because the surrounding world has changed and the policy no longer fits.

ACA doesn't need the urgent fix that some people have come to believe, but there's also plenty of scope to refine & improve.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/03/25 17:45:18


“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
 
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