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After playing a series of games against one the best IG players in my FLGS, time and time again I find myself losing due to a single Manticore. So, I sat down and tried to figure out an answer to the Manticore while being flexible enough to take care of other threats. My FLGS plays most games at 2000 points.

So I decided on a Dreadnought in a Drop Pod with a Melta and a Heavy Flamer. The type of Dread I'm still not sure yet, I'm leaning towards an Ironclad due to its AV13, being able to carry two DCCWs instead of having one replaced by a Multi-Melta like on a normal Dread.

This is the list I'm considering the Dread to fit in:

+ HQ + (148pts)

* Captain (148pts)
Artificer Armour, Relic Blade, Storm Bolter


+ Elites + (680pts)

* Ironclad Dreadnought (180pts)
* Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon
Heavy Flamer
* Drop Pod
Storm Bolter
* Seismic Hammer
Meltagun


* Terminator Assault Squad (500pts)
6x Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield
* Land Raider Crusader
Multi-Melta


+ Troops + (660pts)

* Tactical Squad (220pts)
Flamer, Plasma Cannon, Rhino, 9x Space Marine
* Space Marine Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Combi-Flamer


* Tactical Squad (220pts)
Flamer, Plasma Cannon, Rhino, 9x Space Marine
* Space Marine Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Combi-Flamer


* Tactical Squad (220pts)
Flamer, Plasma Cannon, Rhino, 9x Space Marine
* Space Marine Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Combi-Flamer


+ Fast Attack + (180pts)

* Land Speeder Squadron (90pts)
* Land Speeder
Heavy Bolter, Typhoon Missile Launcher


* Land Speeder Squadron (90pts)
* Land Speeder
Heavy Bolter, Typhoon Missile Launcher


+ Heavy Support + (325pts)

* Predator (120pts)
Autocannon, Lascannons


* Predator (85pts)
Autocannon, Heavy Bolters


* Predator (120pts)
Autocannon, Lascannons

1993 points

So the role for the Dreadnought is to take down the Manticore? Why not use Sternguard in a drop pod? Give them Combi-meltas, drop near the Manticore, Melt it and then you still have a squad of Marines with uber ammo, to do what ever else they can do, before your opponent turns his fire power on to them. I feel the difference between the sternguard and the dreadnought, is that the dreadnought will only get one shot at the manticore, where as the Sternguard will have 5-10 shots at it, and then afterwards are a lot more flexible.

Eldercaveman wrote:
So the role for the Dreadnought is to take down the Manticore? Why not use Sternguard in a drop pod? Give them Combi-meltas, drop near the Manticore, Melt it and then you still have a squad of Marines with uber ammo, to do what ever else they can do, before your opponent turns his fire power on to them. I feel the difference between the sternguard and the dreadnought, is that the dreadnought will only get one shot at the manticore, where as the Sternguard will have 5-10 shots at it, and then afterwards are a lot more flexible.

Not sure about pts but yea, I'd gladly replace the 180pt dread with 180pts of Sternguard w/ C-Meltas

As I said before, the Dread's rule is to hunt things like Manticores, and if there is no such target, the Heavy Flamer comes into play.

Problem with Sternguard is that they cost 335 points for 10 guys, 10 combi weapons and a Drop Pod. I don't have an extra 155 points. In addition, they're infantry. My FLGS has had its count of Meltas drop drastically as more players are bringing foot lists.

I hear you in that it's a single shot though. I trust my rolling enough to make that single shot.

And plus they can then hide behind/hide in the crater of said wrecked/destroyed Manticore, I'll price up a unit, see what you can get for 180 points.


* Sternguard Veteran Squad (180pts)

* Space Marine Sergeant (30pts)
Chainsword, Combi-Melta
* Veteran (30pts)
Combi-Melta
* Veteran (30pts)
Combi-Melta
* Veteran (30pts)
Combi-Melta
* Veteran (30pts)
Combi-Melta
* Veteran (30pts)
Combi-Melta

 AresX8 wrote:
As I said before, the Dread's rule is to hunt things like Manticores, and if there is no such target, the Heavy Flamer comes into play.

Problem with Sternguard is that they cost 335 points for 10 guys, 10 combi weapons and a Drop Pod. I don't have an extra 155 points. In addition, they're infantry. My FLGS has had its count of Meltas drop drastically as more players are bringing foot lists.

I hear you in that it's a single shot though. I trust my rolling enough to make that single shot.

Here's the thing, you don't need to take 10 guys in a sternguard squad. I worked out the math a while back and 5 sternguard with combi-meltas has a 97%!!! chance of destroying an AV14 target if they all deploy in melta range solely considering the 'vehicle explodes' result on the damage chart (its marginally higher to destroy by any means because they have a small chance of stripping 4 HP without causing an explosion). Those 5 sternguard will have an even better chance of taking out a manticore, and a pod of 5 sternguard with combi-meltas is 185 points. While it is true that you can take 5 additional sternguard, they are likely going to be a waste since you are already over-killing the manticore (which isn't bad if you NEED it dead, as long as you aren't over-killing by 400%) and any extra sternguard just present a bigger target that is likely to be wiped out by the enemy that you drop them next too.

The best use I've found for dreadnought in drop pod is to drop them behind vehicles. I personally like either melta or lascannon for tank busting. Up to you for if you want the deathwind missile launcher on there though. Dread can pop the vehicle then close combat it later with power fist. I'm not sure if all have the same upgrades as space wolves though.

Your math is off. A close range melta shot has about a 20 percent chance of vehicle explodes, but then you added the percents together to make 97 percent. You instead should have multiplied the chances of the melta not killing the tank 5 times, aka about .8 too the fifth power. Thus, 5 melta have about a 66 percent chance of a vehicle explodes on AV 14 with 5 dice.

My only issue with using Sternguard is, what if I play against an opponent (my lists are also my tourney lists) that doesn't have a high priority vehicle? 12 special ammo shots isn't worth 180 points IMO.

 AresX8 wrote:
My only issue with using Sternguard is, what if I play against an opponent (my lists are also my tourney lists) that doesn't have a high priority vehicle? 12 special ammo shots isn't worth 180 points IMO.

Er, it's pretty damn good.

Sternguard will always have their uses. Your opponent will always have a high priority target in one form or another. And it gives you a pretty good chance at first blood.

If would run the ironclad with meltagun and two hunter killers. More survivalable and a better alpha strike.

I personally love sternguard, but if you're dead set on the dread why not pay the extra points for the Lucius pattern pod. It will let the dread shoot, and then get stuck into cc on the turn he arrives.

This will both preserve him from the next round of firing (where most dreads die) and cause more chaos and possibly tie up a unit like the command squad (assuming its not bubble wrapped of course).

Plus, if you go ironclad, death by IG power fist and krak grenades are mitigated.

I'm not 100% on the Ironclad, it's just the only unit in a Pod that I can think of that won't feel like a suicide unit. I would so love to use the Lucius Drop Pod, only problem is that my FLGS doesn't allow ForgeWorld in our tourneys, yet. It's a matter of time.

 AresX8 wrote:
My only issue with using Sternguard is, what if I play against an opponent (my lists are also my tourney lists) that doesn't have a high priority vehicle? 12 special ammo shots isn't worth 180 points IMO.

They are, more than you think. 6 sterns can easily take out a monstrous creature or a squad.
If your opponent does not have a priority vehicle, pod them in the center of the board to threaten everything, or get them to fotify to your back line. The opportinities anre endless, sterns are easily the most versatile unit the codex has to offer.