Typhus' Destroyer Hive

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**KitKat**

Evening,

Just one small question. Once per game Typhus can unleash the hive instead of attacking, but my question is does he actually have to be in combat to use this? I assumed he did but thought I'd check anyway.

I know this will seem like an odd question and is probably pretty straight forward to answer, but there is a reason behind asking.

Thanks for your time.

**40k-noob**

The rule starts out with "..once per game, in any Assault phase ......instead of attacking."

He can't attack if he is not in combat, so if he can't attack then he also cannot use the Hive, "instead of..."

So yes, he must in close combat to be able to use the Hive.

**KitKat**

Thought as much, would have been pretty broken for what I had planned.

Cheers for clearing things up!

**Lord Yayula**

KitKat wrote:
Thought as much, would have been pretty broken for what I had planned.

Cheers for clearing things up!

Use it with epidemus to sacrifice your own cultists and get the tally up?

**rigeld2**

No, you can't Hive your cultists to raise the tally unless you're in CC.
You can assault a Quad Gun and Hive it it you want... (though this tactic has annoyed some and some debate its legality)

**KitKat**

Lord Yayula wrote:

Use it with epidemus to sacrifice your own cultists and get the tally up?

Haha! I knew it was too obvious. Incedently can Typhus join a unit of Plague Zombies, as they don't have the MoN?

**Lord Yayula**

The restriction for joining is only if the unit and the IC have different marks, if a unit isn't marked a lord from any god can join them

**kcwm**

rigeld2 wrote:
No, you can't Hive your cultists to raise the tally unless you're in CC.
You can assault a Quad Gun and Hive it it you want... (though this tactic has annoyed some and some debate its legality)

I fail to see how there can be any debate on the legality of it. Cheesy? Absolutely, without question. Legal? You can assault your own gun per the rules, and you can use the Destroyer Hive in place of an attack. But, god, is it ever beardy to do it.

**Neronoxx**

Exactly what rule allows you to assualy the quad gun? Last time i checked, you could only assualt enemy units, with some specific exceptions (occupied buildings).

**Happyjew**

Neronoxx wrote:
Exactly what rule allows you to assualy the quad gun? Last time i checked, you could only assualt enemy units, with some specific exceptions (occupied buildings).

Read the rules for Gun Emplacements under Battlefield Debris. It explains how you attack them in close combat. OC, if I were to use this tactic, I'd buy the lascannon and save 15 points.

**Neronoxx**

Happyjew wrote:
Neronoxx wrote:
Exactly what rule allows you to assualy the quad gun? Last time i checked, you could only assualt enemy units, with some specific exceptions (occupied buildings).

Read the rules for Gun Emplacements under Battlefield Debris. It explains how you attack them in close combat. OC, if I were to use this tactic, I'd buy the lascannon and save 15 points.

Page 105? Under Gun Emplacement?
I see tha the gun can be shot at, and can be attacked in close combat. I also see that it is hit automatically in combat. But where does it say you can charge the emplacement? Because i don't see how typus is charging a target he doesnt have permission to charge.
To declare a charge, you nominate one of your units, and then pick an "enemy unit," as per the rules on page 20. If it is not an enemy unit, you need permission to to charge it (such as in the case of occupied buildings)

So what is it that allows typhus to charge his aegis defense line gun?

**Happyjew**

If you cannot charge a Gun Emplacement, how can you attack it in close combat?

**Neronoxx**

Thats not really the issue though, is it?
Where does it say am i allowed to charge my emplacement?

**TanKoL**

it is not "your" emplacement, it is "an" (neutral) emplacement
same goes for the one your opponent bought, it's a neutral one you can "steal"
But I still would refuse to play against someone using this kind of tricks, even if it's deemed legal (that's why I dislike ultra-competitive tournaments and don't go there by the way, but it's a personnal opinion, not a judgement)

**Lord Yayula**

Yup the emplacement isn't really part of your army, it is a neutral army who can play for both sides, you pay for it to be on the table and on your side, but that doesn't means it's yours.

**Neronoxx**

That is true, the gun emplacement is neutral.
But is that all that holds up the aegis destroyer hive thing?

**OutlawBandit**

It doesnt appear that the rules deny such a move is legal, but Id say the consensus is that performing a dirty trick like this would be cheesy.

**whembly**

Beardy... but seems legal.

I can take on a Typhus army! BRING IT!

**jdjamesdean@mail.com**

whembly wrote:
Beardy... but seems legal.

I can take on a Typhus army! BRING IT!

Well it is just past no shave November, I'm sure there's plenty O'beards still runnin around.

Yea though, seems fine.

**Neronoxx**

whembly wrote:
Beardy... but seems legal.

I can take on a Typhus army! BRING IT!

How is this legal? Are we assuming that we can charge neutral units now? Because unless you are saying that charging neutral units is legal (which it isnt) there is no way typhus can charge the aegis defense line. The rules simply do not give him permission to do so.

**Happyjew**

You are not charging hte ADL, you are charging the Gun Emplacement, which GW implies is legal, otherwise there would be no rules on attacking it in CC.

**Neronoxx**

That doesnt mean you can charge it though.
The gun emplacement rules could be there in case a unit defending the gun is charged, and an enemy soldier could pile in next to the gun.
If you perform a charge against a gun emplacement, you are breaking the rules. And if you arent breaking the rules, then it is legal to charge neutral units.

**grendel083**

Normally you can't charge a neutral unit, as you're only given permission to charge enemy units. But the Gun Emplacement rules state it CAN be shot and attacked in close combat.

**Neronoxx**

grendel083 wrote:
Normally you can't charge a neutral unit, as you're only given permission to charge enemy units. But the Gun Emplacement rules state it CAN be shot and attacked in close combat.

Yes it can. But can it be charged?
That's the part it seems everyone is missing.

**40k-noob**

Neronoxx wrote:
grendel083 wrote:
Normally you can't charge a neutral unit, as you're only given permission to charge enemy units. But the Gun Emplacement rules state it CAN be shot and attacked in close combat.

Yes it can. But can it be charged?
That's the part it seems everyone is missing.

That is a good point.

attacked in CC is different from declaring a charge against it.

Being that you can only declare a charge against an enemy. I think Nero is right.

**Neronoxx**

That's the point i have been trying to make.
I can see why people would get confused, but this is actually pretty clear RAW.

**Lordhat**

If it cannot be charged, it cannot be attacked in close combat.

Consolidation does not allow engaging new units; pile in does not allow engaging new units.

The ONLY way to attack the gun in CC is to charge it.

EDIT: Alternatively one could just move models into base during the movement phase as it it not an enemy model, then attack it during the assault phase using the rules given for doing so. Either way, being in base to base during the assault phase is allowed, and there is express permission given to attack it; the Destroyer hive is an attack.

**Neronoxx**

Lordhat wrote:
If it cannot be charged, it cannot be attacked in close combat.

Consolidation does not allow engaging new units; pile in does not allow engaging new units.

The ONLY way to attack the gun in CC is to charge it.

EDIT: Alternatively one could just move models into base during the movement phase as it it not an enemy model, then attack it during the assault phase using the rules given for doing so. Either way, being in base to base during the assault phase is allowed, and there is express permission given to attack it; the Destroyer hive is an attack.

And just how are you striking blows if you have not charged? Because as far as i know, in order to enter combat, you must charge.

**don_mondo**

Happyjew wrote:
You are not charging hte ADL, you are charging the Gun Emplacement, which GW implies is legal, otherwise there would be no rules on attacking it in CC.

Or maybe, just maybe, you can only charge it when it is manned by an enemy model, making it an enemy model. Ya think?

**40k-noob**

seems to me that you can charge the enemy controlling or close to the gun and in the charge move end up in BTB with the gun and thus strike it at initiative during the fight subphase.

However you cannot declare a charge againt the gun as it is not an enemy unit.