Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So is the emperor sitting in the warp just looking over humanity shaking his head at us?

I mean he did not want to be worshiped as a god and was trying to move people away from that, then when he died man worshiped him as a god so is he just up there with his hand on his had like,

"*sign*...god dammit"

 Backspacehacker wrote:
"*sign*...god dammit"

Is he deaf?

But seriously, who knows. If he is an entity of the warp he may love the feeling of mass worship on millions of worlds now seeing as the warp gods all feed off of the emotions and such of mortals.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
So is the emperor sitting in the warp just looking over humanity shaking his head at us?

I mean he did not want to be worshiped as a god and was trying to move people away from that, then when he died man worshiped him as a god so is he just up there with his hand on his had like,

"*sign*...god dammit"

He's not dead, just mostly dead. And yea, probably shaking his head at humanity. Also, most likely hanging out with Gork and Mork and finding out how they cope with stupidity amongst followers.

Yes. He had a plan to bring humanity into a golden age.
Clearly not the case.

The religious and superstitious aspect of the Imperium would piss him off greatly, but the violence and xenophobia not so much. The Emperor was a viciously violent and tyrannical ruler.

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
So is the emperor sitting in the warp just looking over humanity shaking his head at us?

I mean he did not want to be worshiped as a god and was trying to move people away from that, then when he died man worshiped him as a god so is he just up there with his hand on his had like,

"*sign*...god dammit"

He's not dead, just mostly dead. And yea, probably shaking his head at humanity. Also, most likely hanging out with Gork and Mork and finding out how they cope with stupidity amongst followers.

He's too busy having poker games with Q and Dicworld's Death.

 Harriticus wrote:
The Emperor was a viciously violent and tyrannical ruler.

The preferred term is 'benevolent dictatorship'. And in the two hundred years of the Great Crusade, Mankind progressed more under the Emperor and the Imperial Truth than in ten thousand years under the High Lords of Terra and the Imperial Cult. That should be answer enough - the Emperor is probably raging in his own head at how his Imperium turned out.

But... couldn't the Emperor influence the IoM to be better, though? Thats what I have always wondered about. Can't he just send a vision to the ecclesiarchy, and have them preach cuddly great crusade love while the Tyranids were eating them.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
The preferred term is 'benevolent dictatorship'. And in the two hundred years of the Great Crusade, Mankind progressed more under the Emperor and the Imperial Truth than in ten thousand years under the High Lords of Terra and the Imperial Cult. That should be answer enough - the Emperor is probably raging in his own head at how his Imperium turned out.

He used the raw force of his psychic might to mentally indoctrinate mortals to his cause and was so woefully incompetent at managing an empire I doubt he could adequately work as an assistant manager at Walmart.

Also, of course he isn't shaking his head. Because he's a corpse and can't move, oho.

He can't shake his head, he's a corpse silly.

It would fall off.

Then they'd have to use the Holy Duct Tape to put it back on..

I'd shake my head, but I won't.

Well why not?

...Because it would fall off if I did!

DO HO HO HO HO HO

Yes - because ironically he fought against stagnation and fanatism, and IoM is all like that...
Btw I' think Perturabo(I'm not so sure) said that stagnation is worse than death, because it is a slow death....

 Garvy wrote:
Yes - because ironically he fought against stagnation and fanatism, and IoM is all like that...
Btw I' think Perturabo(I'm not so sure) said that stagnation is worse than death, because it is a slow death....

Perty's kinda a boss like that.

 Garvy wrote:
Yes - because ironically he fought against stagnation and fanatism, and IoM is all like that...
Btw I' think Perturabo(I'm not so sure) said that stagnation is worse than death, because it is a slow death....

Lorgar probably smiles at the irony - the Emperor fought to suppress religion in favor of reason, and now can do nothing but rage in his own head while the Imperium follows a path not to dissimilar from the path of Chaos.

Legion of Flame wrote:But... couldn't the Emperor influence the IoM to be better, though? Thats what I have always wondered about. Can't he just send a vision to the ecclesiarchy, and have them preach cuddly great crusade love while the Tyranids were eating them.

Maybe he's doing that. Lots of fluff mentions people having "visions". Now, this could be just imagination, or even worse perhaps a trick by the forces of Chaos. But some of them may just as well be genuine messages from his Warp-trapped mind.

An example that springs to mind would be Alicia Dominica's audience in the Throne Room, after which she went and beheaded her former master, High Lord Vandire, for treason.

Ultimately, I do think that the Emperor, if he is still conscious of what happens in his realm, would come to the same conclusions as many of the survivors of the Horus Heresy - that religion serves as a unifying force throughout the Imperium. And I would think he might be pragmatic enough to simply acknowledge this and use it to secure mankind's future. In theory, they can still get rid of religion and reform the empire after they've dealt with all those threats currently nagging at the Imperium's borders. Doing it now would just result in increased instability, and result in an even quicker dissolution of the entire realm and enslavement or genocide of the human race. The current IoM may not be what he had in mind, but "it'll have to do".

 Lynata wrote:

Legion of Flame wrote:But... couldn't the Emperor influence the IoM to be better, though? Thats what I have always wondered about. Can't he just send a vision to the ecclesiarchy, and have them preach cuddly great crusade love while the Tyranids were eating them.

Maybe he's doing that. Lots of fluff mentions people having "visions". Now, this could be just imagination, or even worse perhaps a trick by the forces of Chaos. But some of them may just as well be genuine messages from his Warp-trapped mind.

An example that springs to mind would be Alicia Dominica's audience in the Throne Room, after which she went and beheaded her former master, High Lord Vandire, for treason.

Ultimately, I do think that the Emperor, if he is still conscious of what happens in his realm, would come to the same conclusions as many of the survivors of the Horus Heresy - that religion serves as a unifying force throughout the Imperium. And I would think he might be pragmatic enough to simply acknowledge this and use it to secure mankind's future. In theory, they can still get rid of religion and reform the empire after they've dealt with all those threats currently nagging at the Imperium's borders. Doing it now would just result in increased instability, and result in an even quicker dissolution of the entire realm and enslavement or genocide of the human race. The current IoM may not be what he had in mind, but "it'll have to do".

Makes sense...though once the impossible is done and all other threats neutralized, and more importantly, the Emperor is back, the Imperium had better expect a lot of reorganization and overhauling. Heck, the whole damn system is down and needs to be rebooted

Well, it's not like they did not do it once already.

I would presume a gradual change rather than something that happens overnight, though, to ease the burden of transition. Also, it may very well require the Emperor being reborn and directing any such efforts in person - which is (if some fluff is to be believed) still being prevented by certain powers inside the upper levels of Imperial leadership. Otherwise, scared people clinging to their power will simply burn anyone receiving "unsanctioned" visions as supposed heretics and seditionists.

 Lynata wrote:
Well, it's not like they did not do it once already.

I would presume a gradual change rather than something that happens overnight, though, to ease the burden of transition. Also, it may very well require the Emperor being reborn and directing any such efforts in person - which is (if some fluff is to be believed) still being prevented by certain powers inside the upper levels of Imperial leadership. Otherwise, scared people clinging to their power will simply burn anyone receiving "unsanctioned" visions as supposed heretics and seditionists.

I wonder if the Emperor sends a Custodian from time to time to express his approval/disapproval.

If so, it is at least not noted anywhere in GW's fluff. It would not serve anything, too, though. What use would it be to play the sulky kid and have a proxy declare you're not happy, and then play along anyways?

The High Lords are said to "interpret" the God-Emperors will, but whether they actually try to do this in audiences, or whether this is just propaganda is left for the individual gamer to decide.

Given how the Reign of Blood had ended, he certainly does have the ability to intervene, if only indirectly. Either that, or those Custodians just created a very elaborate hoax and scammed Alicia and her companions, essentially taking it upon themselves to decide what's best for the Imperium and in doing so even impersonating their master. This would mean he truly *is* disconnected from the mortal world and pretty much acts like a living battery or (more accurately) a living focal lens to fuel the Astronomican, but without being able to do anything else.

On the other hand, Alicia's audience is not the only "miraculous" thing that happened in this period. Vandire's fleet vanishing into a Warp Storm, whilst on the other hand Thor's rebels had a suspiciously calm voyage on their journey to Terra?
Only one other man ever seemed to have this ability, and that was some smalltime Ecclesiarchy priest who used it to benefit Imperial troop deployments in an effort to defend the Cadian Gate during the 13th Black Crusade. Somehow, his weapon ended up in the hands of another Battle Sister, who likewise received strange visions.

"[...] Determined to make her stand at the shrine, Anastasia cast around for a weapon. Seeing that the priest still held a sword in his dead grip, she reached for it as the first of the zombies appeared at the broken gates of the shrine. As her hand touched the hilt, Anastasia was wracked by a terrible seizure, her back arching as she let out a dreadful scream. The ruins around her melted away, and she stood upon a vast plain of shattered bones. Before her stood a man in blood red armour, corruption radiating from him in palpable waves. In his hand he bore a weapon that squirmed and writhed with a thirst for the souls of the innocent. The man seemed unaware of Anastasia's presence, and she realised she was experiencing another vision, though unlike the one in her cell, this seemed to be pointing her towards a specific goal. She knew that the vision was telling her that this man was a source of great evil, and must be confronted if that evil was to be thwarted and Anastasia's redemption secured.
Anastasia snapped out of her vision to be confronted with a plague zombie reaching its filthy hands towards her. Overcome by a holy rage, she lashed out with the sword, cleaving the creature in two with one swing. Soon more of the foul creatures crowded into the confines of the shrine, but Anastasia was an avenging angel, her blade shining as she cut each plague zombie down.
And so, Sister Anastasia began her hunt for the man revealed to her in her vision. Over the course of her quest, other revelations came to her, each showing her the face of an individual whose existence could not be allowed to continue. Anastasia knew that in confronting each of these scions of evil and corruption she was doing the Emperor's work, and with every battle, taking another step on the road to her own absolution."
- GW website, Inquisitor RPG background section

It is unlikely that the Emperor is fully disconnected from the material realm. I like Saint Sabbat and her reincarnation story too much for me to accept that

I'm one of those people who thinks that Emperor and the God Emperor are two very different persons...I' mean Keeler was doing all kinds of saints mojo even before Emps coma...
Anyway, I' dont think Emp (real one) is sending messages to ecclesiarchy, beacuse it would contradict his whole persona...

DarthMarko wrote:I' mean Keeler was doing all kinds of saints mojo even before Emps coma...

As per my own understanding of what "saints mojo" is, the Emperor actually would have nothing to do with this.
Emotions -> Warp -> Funny stuff happens

He can be involved, though he would not have to. The only prerequisite I would add is that someone needs to be psychically active, regardless of whether it is the one using these powers or bestowing them.

That is mere extrapolation of the Sisters' own psychic block and my reluctance to accept any such thing as "divine magic" within the setting. In my personal opinion, it all comes from the Warp.

 Lynata wrote:

DarthMarko wrote:I' mean Keeler was doing all kinds of saints mojo even before Emps coma...

As per my own understanding of what "saints mojo" is, the Emperor actually would have nothing to do with this.
Emotions -> Warp -> Funny stuff happens

I never thought of it that way...but then, who resurrected Saint Sabbat?

 DarthMarko wrote:
I'm one of those people who thinks that Emperor and the God Emperor are two very different persons...I' mean Keeler was doing all kinds of saints mojo even before Emps coma...
Anyway, I' dont think Emp (real one) is sending messages to ecclesiarchy, beacuse it would contradict his whole persona...

Or the God-Emperor was subsumed into the Emperor. The man's a monstrously powerful psyker - for all we know, before the Ecclesiarchy got too powerful, the former was absorbed into the latter.

Admiral Valerian wrote:I never thought of it that way...but then, who resurrected Saint Sabbat?

I have not read that story. Since it's a Black Library book I would not spend too much thought about it, anyways, as whenever contradictions arise I personally always look after what the studio book says. Different authors write different books, it's just a fact of this franchise.

However, assuming that this Saint Sabbat's resurrection is in any way similar to that of Saint Celestine ... then I guess I would have to dig out my theory about a surge in emotion "birthing" a minor Warp entity (like Slaanesh, but much less powerful) who then possesses the body of one of the most faithful, in essence displacing or suppressing its own native soul upon the event of death and using its supernatural powers to keep the body moving. A "Demon of Order", so to say.

Just a little pet-theory of mine, however. But as I said, since the Sisters' own AoF are definitively not psychic and I refuse to accept "divine magic" in 40k, this was the best explanation for the Living Saint I could come up with.
Other than, y'know, simply dismissing the entire character as a product of legend and propaganda.

 Lynata wrote:


However, assuming that this Saint Sabbat's resurrection is in any way similar to that of Saint Celestine...

Resurrection is less fitting...reincarnation would be closer. Though I recall the Chaos Champion leading the assault noting that she was real, and no falsehood was involved...I prefer to think the Emperor might have protected and sustained her soul in the Warp until it was necessary for her to return to Imperial service.

I can only tell that when he resurrects one day that a LOT of head will fall down, starting with Inquisition and Ecclesiarchy.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
I can only tell that when he resurrects one day that a LOT of head will fall down, starting with Inquisition and Ecclesiarchy.

For some reason, I can't stop laughing when I imagine the Emperor shouting 'Off with their heads!'

EDIT: Anyway, perhaps not the Inquisition - ol'Malcador did found the Inquisition on his orders, but definitely some reorganization and 'cleaning house' is in order. The Ecclesiarchy, the Mechanicum, and the Administratum are going to vastly overhauled though. The Officio Assassinorum and the Custodians are going to be busy for decades, as the Emperor cleans the house.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
I can only tell that when he resurrects one day that a LOT of head will fall down, starting with Inquisition and Ecclesiarchy.

For some reason, I can't stop laughing when I imagine the Emperor shouting 'Off with their heads!'

EDIT: Anyway, perhaps not the Inquisition - ol'Malcador did found the Inquisition on his orders, but definitely some reorganization and 'cleaning house' is in order. The Ecclesiarchy, the Mechanicum, and the Administratum are going to vastly overhauled though. The Officio Assassinorum and the Custodians are going to be busy for decades, as the Emperor cleans the house.

Really, the Imperium should be shaking its head at the Emperor.

Since, you know, he was kind of an incompetent jackass, and is almost solely responsible for the Heresy.