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I've always liked them and I was looking at a tyranid fandex the other day thinking about all the complaints that must have gone into the changes they made and it occurred to me, at least in my usual environs, the sources for the usual complaints have dried up significantly!

Okay, so long fangs are still a problem, but beyond that and terminator/speeder spam lists you see occasionally and BA jumpers I am seeing way way fewer missile launchers around. Fewer hails of s8 too, people seem to be trading in a psy rifle guy for more allies or templates or heartier troop squads these days. I've also seen a lot more autocannons and plasma than before. Well the autocannons stayed about the same but boy is there less melta running around. Much more hearty troop units with lots of small arms and a focus on blob killing fire and cover / objective flushing.

Now I haven't used nids in ages, I haven't even really got a peep at the FAQs of late, but with fearless hearty troops being the cool thing these days and the warriors traditional bane losing popularity, I'm wondering if there is some cause to see them on the table again!

Now I'm not sure I'm saying much out there is better than tervigon spam, but it seems like warriors old weaknesses are less of a burden, they are much better at providing cover to MCs now, they are damn hard to put enough wounds on to clear out of area objectives without a manticore or something and the weapons rising in popularity seem kinda overcosted shooting at them! Synapse is also better than ever and they seem like a really reasonable way to move it to midfield in a hurry and be a solid followthrough for tyranid awesome grabber units!

So anyone been seeing more use in these guys? Playing any differently? My experiences might be a little different, I know, but I get the feeling quite a few of my fave necron and csm lists would be frustrated by them and they are just so darned cute!

Oh also, what's the AP on bone swords these days? I never see them excepting when I fight the odd MC.

I sometimes run a unit of six warriors with STs and Deathspitters, sometimes with a 2x BS/Deathspitter prime attached, and they've done alright for themselves. They never come across as the star unit of a game, but they never really disappoint me, either. They're a solid unit.

Boneswords still just ignore armor; they don't have an AP value.

 Lucre wrote:
I've always liked them and I was looking at a tyranid fandex the other day thinking about all the complaints that must have gone into the changes they made and it occurred to me, at least in my usual environs, the sources for the usual complaints have dried up significantly!

Okay, so long fangs are still a problem, but beyond that and terminator/speeder spam lists you see occasionally and BA jumpers I am seeing way way fewer missile launchers around. Fewer hails of s8 too, people seem to be trading in a psy rifle guy for more allies or templates or heartier troop squads these days. I've also seen a lot more autocannons and plasma than before. Well the autocannons stayed about the same but boy is there less melta running around. Much more hearty troop units with lots of small arms and a focus on blob killing fire and cover / objective flushing.

Now I haven't used nids in ages, I haven't even really got a peep at the FAQs of late, but with fearless hearty troops being the cool thing these days and the warriors traditional bane losing popularity, I'm wondering if there is some cause to see them on the table again!

Now I'm not sure I'm saying much out there is better than tervigon spam, but it seems like warriors old weaknesses are less of a burden, they are much better at providing cover to MCs now, they are damn hard to put enough wounds on to clear out of area objectives without a manticore or something and the weapons rising in popularity seem kinda overcosted shooting at them! Synapse is also better than ever and they seem like a really reasonable way to move it to midfield in a hurry and be a solid followthrough for tyranid awesome grabber units!

So anyone been seeing more use in these guys? Playing any differently? My experiences might be a little different, I know, but I get the feeling quite a few of my fave necron and csm lists would be frustrated by them and they are just so darned cute!

Oh also, what's the AP on bone swords these days? I never see them excepting when I fight the odd MC.

Do you mean my fandex in the proposed section? Honestly, I love my Tyranid warriors. There really is nothing wrong with them for 6th edition. I run mine for a simple 50pt a pop, going for full melee, and they tend to dominate in close combat.

You don't need to fix warriors, you simply need synergy in your list.

If you have a list with 14 warriors, 9 raveners, 3 carnifex, deathleaper, 10 ymgarals and 2 HQ tervigons... you don't fix warriors you fix target priority. (btw that's my list)

Warriors that aren't being shot are good warriors. Warriors in melee are good warriors. Saturate the field don't just blindly make a list.

Jurai, cool list. I have not had warriors sucksesfully work for me. (I usualy face some sort of gunline, but haven't played a lott of 6th.)

Food for thought though: with carnifexes costing 40 points per wound, would not 2 trygons be better in your list? 3 Carnifexes are 480 points, 2 Trygons with poison sacks are 60 points cheaper and should put the fear of god into him just the same?

The reason is simple.

Here be three carnifexes:

X Y Z

I give them FNP and book it towards food, I mean the enemy.

Lets say Z takes 3 wounds.

Next turn they are like this:

X Y
Z

No loss in power. An entire army shooting at a trygon will probably kill it, but with proper positioning it takes forever to kill a carnifex squad. Add in the It will not die rule, maybe adding regenerate (though so expensive, so I don't) and these buggers always either make it to the killing grounds, or only they die while the rest of the force eats them alive.

Also carnifexes can get frag spines, that's the only upgrade I give them, because having to charge into terrain and going before fists, axes and melta bombs is very important.

Very cool strategy jurai. I see with the warriors and ravaners you have mnore then enough bodies along with the fexes. However, I have two questions:

what opponent do you usualy play? My opponent usualy has enough S6+ long ranged damadge to kill a carnifex, even with the feel no pain and coversave.

For the first round of shooting, if you do not get first turn and there is no nightfighting, would it not be better to give the carnifexes a alfa warrior? That way you can do the look out sir and take 5 wounds instead of 3 before one of them died. Also, you would be paying less points "per wound" and you would have more synapse.

Warriors are still slow. You need to get them a cover save from the off as they are 40-50pts a pop with a 4+ armour save so they are not often positioned for a 2 turn charge and assault and won't generally get near anything but an intended tarpit for 3-4 turns. Due to this mine have never got into more than 2 combats in a game - so it's a gamble whether they pay for themselves or not or if they got shot up to the point of ineffectiveness in between combat.

I think a large brood in a mycetic spore may be a better way of using them, but in a list with multiple spores so they don't stick out like a sore thumb.

I play Necron lists usually devoted to many Lanceteks firing off Str 8 AP 2 at 36 inches. If I wanted a small squad of warriors dead, I could almost guarantee it. If there are multiple groups of the scattered around, I'm going to have problems doing that.
I got the Nid Codex a long time ago, but didn't like how the current meta looked for them. I would be quite pleased to see them make something of a comeback.
I like that Carnifex strategy mentioned. It would be a lot of fun to see if my gun line can deal with something so frightening. The warriors in that game would be receiving very little fire for the first few turns.

Fafnir13, I played the nids a lott during 5th and they where mostly rubbish. My local "pick up game" meta was usualy people practesing for tournaments so there competivaty was so high the nids had a hard time. With 6th edition some of them tok a hit (genstealers IMHO) but some things got a lott better.

If you want to play nids now would not be a bad time to do it. How Juraigamer is aproaching the tyranid codex just has me baffeled. I really enjoy that people are discovering other emergent strategies that I have never considered gluing together and paint...and they are sucksesfully with it! cool beans.

I dare say 6th edition was good to tyranids even though the codex is...not the best.

 Niiai wrote:
Very cool strategy jurai. I see with the warriors and ravaners you have mnore then enough bodies along with the fexes. However, I have two questions:

what opponent do you usualy play? My opponent usualy has enough S6+ long ranged damadge to kill a carnifex, even with the feel no pain and coversave.

For the first round of shooting, if you do not get first turn and there is no nightfighting, would it not be better to give the carnifexes a alfa warrior? That way you can do the look out sir and take 5 wounds instead of 3 before one of them died. Also, you would be paying less points "per wound" and you would have more synapse.

I play everything from nercons and their fliers, GK and GK assassin spam and all the other normal 40k fixins, except sisters of course. DE, BA, DA, SW, you name it I've played it. Tourney lists or not as well. The list simply has too much on the field to kill fast enough, so long as you don't bunch up against guard players.

I though about a warrior prime, but the lack of another source of feel no pain caused me to think otherwise. The list contains 23 three wound models, 9 of which can make a 2nd turn charge no problem due to their speed. Add in the fact that the ymgarals are effectively coming in on turn 2 thanks to the deathleaper, who also provides ranged psy defense, and by the end of your turn 2 there will be less shooting you.

It's simply a pick your poison situation for the enemy. Do they waste missiles on warriors or raveners(these stay in cover since beasts rules) or do they try to kill the fexes, maybe the tervis? There is no good situation, and not even max long fangs will kill enough guys before the hurt comes.

Finally, concerning night fight, positioning your tervies behind the fexes ensures that if something is shooting you, you will have at least a 4+ cover save, since FNP helps this list so much, this is a good thing.

Throwing 5+ T4 multiwound squads on the field is a terrible idea. You are spending a huge chunk of points in units that are essentially fodder. Target priority is rarely a problem considering the speed difference in raveners and warriors. Raveners should all bite the dust first turn as this seems to be a 2k list. Every army in the game brings enough las cannons, missiles, battlecannons, lances, ect to deal with 9 raveners. After that, they pull back and have 2 more turns of shooting to pile damage into the warriors and probably kill all of them since you arent putting much of any damage back at them. By turn 4 you should get the fexes to assault, probably with a few wounds scattered around on them. Nothing has changed since 5th in that fist, poison, S5+ or most dedicated assault choices still deal with fexes in melee.


You are throwing 30-50 points into units that are taken down easily. While you saturated the board with them, you are not minimizing the fact that your losing a huge chunk of points every time one of them goes down. By the time you hit their lines you are down so many points that they can simply overwhelm your few remaining units

I regularly see a guy who still tries ravener spam. Last tourney i faced him in he called it by the end of turn 3 because he had lost all his raveners and i had lost 2 harlequins. Ymargls are very easy to deal with as most maps dont have more than a few pieces of terrain large enough to conceal full squads. Simply space your guys out and when they come in they will be destroyed as they cannot be placed.

GK eat you alive with force weapons in melee, especially vs raveners who dont have shadows. At range S5 storm bolters obliterate raveners and psycannons and psydreds obliterate warriors in groups.

IG... well yeah i shouldnt need to tell you what battlecannons and manticores do along with flamer PCs screening vs raveners.

DE laugh as they get not just 3 but possibly 4 turns of shooting at you as they run away.

Orks... well they simply out-melee warriors. You dont have the quantity of attacks to deal with boys except maybe raveners. klaws are standard on every nob and you cannot challenge them out. With lootas being so good in 6th, dont expect the warriors to survive long. Fexes and tervigons usually go down to boys and/ or Warbosses/Nobs with klaws. You may kill a bunch back, but you will lose the point efficiency war on almost every unit they bring

PS, deathleaper does NOT provide a reserve bonus on turn 2. Read the FAQ. He needs to be on the board for the bonus to be granted.

Paper and play are two different things, a good general beats a crappy one. There is more plasma on the field these days and less melta/missile/lascannon, or are you from the past?

As an eldar player I expected more from you, or are you the kind that just spams war walkers and wraithguard?

You are throwing 30-50 points into units that are taken down easily.

Anything can be taken down easily, point irrelevant.

GK eat you alive with force weapons in melee, especially vs raveners who dont have shadows. At range S5 storm bolters obliterate raveners and psycannons and psydreds obliterate warriors in groups.

Gk will kill anything in melee if given the chance. Simply align your lines to counter their powers and don't charge in blindly with raveners. GK have less shots overall that most armies, so crying about their power is meaningless.

IG... well yeah i shouldnt need to tell you what battlecannons and manticores do along with flamer PCs screening vs raveners.

Again, be smart. Stick to cover and spread out. If overwatch worries you, toss FNP on them before the charge, oh and multi-charge.

DE laugh as they get not just 3 but possibly 4 turns of shooting at you as they run away.

Any posioned weapon is a problem, then again how many DE do you see with nothing but warriors?

Orks...

They are orks, what do you want? The tervies have some shots as do their gaunts, shouldn't be a problem.

deathleaper

Appearently can't start on the field, oh well.

I would like warriors to be good, unfortunately I have not found a way to do that yet. My meta is starting to shift, but still has lots of krak missiles. My current theory that I'm going to test next is 4-5 dual bone-sword warriors dropped in a spore along with Trygons, Doom, DakkaFexes, and Ymgarls... basically trying to use 3 strategies to combat their weakness to shooting:

1- Target priority = with so many other threats arriving at the same time, and several that compete for S8 shooting (MCs, Doom), the Warriors should be good to go. They haven't been played in a while, you also have the advantage that some players could mess up their target priority because they don't know how to judge the unit.

2- Limit time they can be shot = By dropping in (or outflanking if you'd prefer) instead of slogging across the board, the warriors will avoid about 2 turns of shooting.

3- Synergy = the Ymgarls are really good at taking out one threat that you really don't like. If the enemy has a squad of long-fangs, the Y-stealers can just go tie them up and eventually kill them. If it's a tank, they can easily eat that in one turn. Meanwhile, in our area at least, Y-stealers are almost impossible to stop by spreading out. We use area terrain pieces that are between 6-12" across, and sometimes multiple levels (the GW buildings) and have you ever looked how small a fingerprint you really need to deploy a 7-model unit if they are touching base to base? Add the 6" move and the fleet charge and I haven't really had a problem killing the intended target on arrival turn. Also, 15-20 devourer gaunts puts a pretty big hurt on enemy shooting squads and can pretty effectively take out tanks on rear armor. Plus, all the spores and Trygons are going to block line of sight pretty good if done right. I think that's why I am leaning towards a smallish squad, that and to keep the price down. If they can deploy behind their pod, they either force the enemy to waste some shooting, or else get ignored. Either way, some type of army that can build in some synergy like this I think is going to be the key to utilizing this unit.

Overall Nid thoughts:
I've been finding great success with the Tyranid drop list lately. In 2000 points I have 9 units arriving on 2+ starting turn 2, almost all of them with mishap protection (pods and Trygons reduce scatter unless you hit a board edge )and it's been overwhelming against most opponents. Way more devestating than anything else I've tried. If you spore up ~5 units, you have about 8-9 remaining units, and only need to start 4 on the board... Armoured Shell Tyrant, Tyrant Guard(s), Hive Guard, Tervigon(s)... even rippers and biovores are good at hiding if you fear getting tables... then deep strike, outflank or dormant deploy Trygon(s), Fex(en), Doom, Devourer Gaunt(s), Gargoyles, Raveners, Lictors, Y-mgarls, Stelears, Tervigons, Warriors, Mawlocs...

Pretty much anything in the nid book has a nifty way to arrive, and the combination of those deployments makes it really strong and very difficult to stop if you synergize them, especially for a gunline. I think finding the Warrior role in this type of army is the way to go.

GW: Why can't Tyranad Prime deploy with warriors in a pod? Please fix this rule so we can start buying warriors again!!!

-Myst

EDIT: forgot to mention, you choose the terrain for Y-stealers after the enemy has deployed, and you can choose terrain that is outside their deployment zone if you like... say in the middle but near enough to charge? The enemy only has one, maybe two, turns to move, and you get shoooting phases to clear space... it's really really hard to stop Y-stealers from arriving and anyone who says otherwise... I believe has either not player with/against them, or does not use area terrain in the recomended amount.