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Does anyone think that the alternative manticore missiles from IA1:ed2 look any good? I know that one of the main complaints about the storm eagles is that they are AP4. Taking the cheaper manticore missiles gives you the ability to kill terminators and a larger blast, trading extra minimum range and the d3 shots for the privilege. It also makes them worse at killing vehicles, although since 6th they have not been as good at that anyway.

I think that they look quite nice, although it is a bit weird using an apocalypse sized blast in a normal game of 40k.

As for the sky eagles, they look ok but very situational.

Wait, I thought Manticore rockets were AP4?

 Grey Templar wrote:
Wait, I thought Manticore rockets were AP4?

Manticore missiles are STR 9 AP 2 with a 7" blast. They're the original weapon it was armed with before GW added the codex version with different missiles, and still available using the FW rules.

Ahhh I see it now. Misread the OP.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Wait, I thought Manticore rockets were AP4?

Manticore missiles are STR 9 AP 2 with a 7" blast. They're the original weapon it was armed with before GW added the codex version with different missiles, and still available using the FW rules.

Apoc only?

Does it require a point upgrade?

 TheCaptain wrote:
Apoc only?

Standard 40k.

Does it require a point upgrade?

Point downgrade actually. The FW Manticore starts cheaper with manticore missiles, and pays a small point cost to upgrade to the codex missiles.

Hey, if you want to, go for it. Sounds like making one of the most op land vehicles in the game even stupider, but if your opponent is cool with it.

the_scotsman wrote:
Hey, if you want to, go for it. Sounds like making one of the most op land vehicles in the game even stupider, but if your opponent is cool with it.

It actually makes it worse at killing vehicles and infantry. It only gets better against MEQ and TEQ, which the IG codex has other means of dealing with.

Let's see. First of all, it's a points downgrade. Theres that. Second, it is far more likely to hit a vehicle with that blast (assumeing a 2" wide vehicle, a normal blast could miss on a 6 or 7+, wheras the megablast would only miss on an 8 or 9+) third, AP2 means you get a +1 on your pen rolls, doubling your chances to explode a vehicle in one shot if it's a non open topper. This isn't even taking into account the fact that with a 7" blast I could easily waste more than one target if your opponent made the mistake of putting more than one vehicle within spitting distance of each other.

Since the SE fires the same thing 1/3 times, but much worse (far more probable to miss) and maybe 50% of your games (more in a tourney) will be MEQ, TEQ or crons (Dont forget those immortals, deathmarks, and lychguard) and even more in a tourney setting, then yeah, I'm going to call op on that. Sorry.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you want to kill TEQ what exactly is wrong with the demolisher?

Havin D3 chance to hit a vehicle with a higher strength is better then a single lower strength shot that has a slight advantage on the pen chart.

Plus the D3 shots are better against infantry.

The accuracy difference is miniscule.

the_scotsman wrote:

If you want to kill TEQ what exactly is wrong with the demolisher?

The range.

Basilisks have great range. The manticore is already highly effective for its points, the only trade off is the ap and the fact that it doesn't laugh in the face of the force org chart like the other guard HS choices. 24" range is not that much to deal with when you want to fight a kind of troop that'll be coming at you anyway.

In all honesty, I really find the multiple barrage rules annoying. That is the main reason I was considering the manticore missiles.

the_scotsman wrote:
Basilisks have great range. The manticore is already highly effective for its points, the only trade off is the ap and the fact that it doesn't laugh in the face of the force org chart like the other guard HS choices. 24" range is not that much to deal with when you want to fight a kind of troop that'll be coming at you anyway.

If they're coming at the demolisher, you'll get 1-2 turns of shooting before they're on top of you. Less if they're bikes, jump troops, or in transports. 24" range is crippling.

 TheCaptain wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Basilisks have great range. The manticore is already highly effective for its points, the only trade off is the ap and the fact that it doesn't laugh in the face of the force org chart like the other guard HS choices. 24" range is not that much to deal with when you want to fight a kind of troop that'll be coming at you anyway.

If they're coming at the demolisher, you'll get 1-2 turns of shooting before they're on top of you. Less if they're bikes, jump troops, or in transports. 24" range is crippling.

So, your problem is that Guard Artillery has a weakness against fast moving, or heavily armored, things?

You can back up the demolisher as you are firing it, if you move up to meet them.

Manticores are already a ridiculously good HS option, they didn't need S9 AP2 shots. If I'm reading it right, it's atleast not Barrage/Ordnance?

And 7" Blast in standard 40k, seriously...

To sum it up:

"Oh noes, Guard tanks have a weakness! Guess we better buff them!"

Crazyterran wrote:
"Oh noes, Guard tanks have a weakness! Guess we better buff them!"

I guess you missed the part where those were the original rules for the Manticore, and GW later changed it to the STR 10 AP 4 multi-shot missiles when they added it into the IG codex. The option to take the old missiles isn't about buffing anything, it's about keeping the original rules available.

Crazyterran wrote:


And 7" Blast in standard 40k, seriously...

I guess you consider the Deathstrike to be an abomination.

 Grey Templar wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:


And 7" Blast in standard 40k, seriously...

I guess you consider the Deathstrike to be an abomination.

It would be if it had 4 shots, opposed to it's 1(IIRC), and didn't have to roll to see if it may fire.

Well manticore missiles are not barrage, yet still have a minimum range. I know in 5th there was a "minimum range implies barrage" rule, but cannot find one in 6th. Seems manticore missiles are better suited to apocalypse then.