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I've been looking at collecting Eldar as my second army. Looking at troop choices I noticed guardian squads seem a little....odd. sure you can beef up the numbers, but they have to carry a heavy weapon (which is long range and stationary to fire) but their gun range is only 12". I rarely face off against Eldar, so I was wonder if any veteran players can shed some light on how this unit is used. All I have come up with is a tarpit unit without many redeeming qualities.

I should note that while I understand most players will go for dire avengers or rangers since they perform better, I believe there is always a place for a unit If you can find its usefulness.

Last ed. i just converted all my guardians to DA, but now i rarely use any of them (dont play foot eldar tho). I would probably just get jetbikes instead, more versatile, you wont get much firepower from the price of a guardian squad + heavy weapon anyways. Take 3-man jetbikes in reserve if you play capture missions, using them to capture objectives at the later turns, or hide them behind cover with a SC each and hop back and forth while firing each round. Your other non-troop selections make bigger bangs for the buck.

Guardians' biggest strength is that they suck. Not only do they suck, but everyone knows they suck. That means that 9 times out of 10 your 10 guardians camping your objective will only get shot at if your opponent doesn't have any other targets.

Another fun one is taking LOTS of them with an avatar and eldrad. walk that blob to a mid-field objective and dare your opponent to take the objective from you. The best part about this one is that its pretty cheap to get a lot of fearless wounds out there that also have re-rollable 5+ cover saves.

Unless things have changed, Eldar heavy weapon platforms do not have to be stationary to fire, so that is the main benefit of Guardians over Dire Avengers. Unfortunately, the basic Shuriken Catapult is also an absolutely crap weapon compared to the weapons of most other armies' mainstay troop types, unless you can use it perfectly. The Shuriken catapult is nowhere as awesome as it first started out as. It used to essentially be a slightly weaker Storm Bolter.

I know lots of us have lamented as to why the basic catapult doesn't have the range of the Avenger, and the Avenger have a bumped-up range of 24". That would make a noticeable difference, I think.

As far as I am concerned, the basic Troop types of the Eldar really are Dire Avengers and Guardian Jetbikes, with the Guardians being essentially militia, taken for their numbers (at least "numbers" in Eldar terms), with their ability to bring heavy weapons into the fight.

That heavy weapon is an assault weapon in all respects, so you can move and shoot if you ever want to run guardians. I run two squads of ten guardians in my 1500 point list. They mostly just sit on a corner objective, shooting anything that gets any way close. Handy enough to keep back while my warhost moves forward to other objectives. A warlock with a singing spear with conceal gives a nice 5+ cover save.
Avengers in serpents, pathfinders and jetbikes are much better troops though.

Thanks for the input guys, pretty much what I had figured was the case with guardians (also thanks for the rules clarification on the heavy weapon platform, I thought that was the rule but couldn't find it in the codex.) So it remains another unit to avoid buying until the new codex comes out.

So yeah. Eldar troops choices suck. 3 GJB in reserve to try and come in late and steal an objective. Or guardians who go to ground behind an Aegis for 2+ cover.

Dire Avengers' Bladestorm Funtime can be great, with a Farseer with Guide/Doom you'll take 7 MEQ out in a single turn! But... first they have to get there... and then they won't do anything next turn except maybe get back into the vehicle... and then they get to shoot again if they're still alive (YAY!). But that's almost 375 points for 2 turns of shooting.
Without the Farseer they're gonna kill 3-4 a turn and are still over 250. Meaning that in 4 turns they'll kill around 1/4 of their points... meh.

Yeah. don't expect your Troops to actually DO anything until we get a new Codex.

A unit or two of pathfinders can cause some damage. Picking out special weapons in squads and popping light vehicles is handy, and very occasionally they might even pin a unit. Don't expect them to be dropping entire squads, but you can totally declaw a tac squad, allowing your other units to take them down fairly easily. Your troop choices aren't there to do your killing, thats what your elites and heavy support are for. Their biggest downside is their cost, but lets face it, everything in our codex is over priced, so theres no point in complaining about it. It's just something we'll have to deal with.

Pathfinders are the expensive durable choice.
Rangers are the less expensive killy choice.

So take your pick, do you want +1 to cover or do you want +20% AP1 directed shots?

I only field DA and Rangers as troops, noting else is worth taking in my opinion

But isent 100 points for a 10 wound T3 scatterlaser that can claim objectives OK? Take 3 or 4 of them at 1750 and long range in the rest of the list? I do not play eldar, but it seems fine to me?

Eldar troops are among the worst in the 40k universe. In larger games, you could go for Wraithguard but its inherent weakness is their speed and short ranging weapons.
Rangers or Pathfinders were a steel, but there are several cover ignoring weapons out there which make a mockery of these units.
Dire Avengers need a transport since they are too vulnerable.
Guardians on foot are an option as they are cheap and can baby sit a heavy weapon. But they tend to run away unless they walk in the Avatar's fearlessness bubble.
GJB's are rather expensive and squadrons out of them are generally rather small. They are neither excelling at shooting and in cc nor they provide a warranty to grab an objective late in the game.

Niiai, you need some perspective. That is 25 points per BS3 S6 AP6 shot. If anything lives to see assault - and at the point per shot we are talking about they will - the Guardians will fold, even against Fire Warriors.
It's not even certain it's a decent enough weapons platform, they may very well be a liability since they die so easily in kill point games.
Not only this, but since the Eldar army is mostly a shooting army, assaulting the large Guardian squads is an effective way of gaining additional movement and prevent enemies from return fire - provided you don't wipe them out too early, of course.

I tend to use squads of 3 GJB with a cannon and just shoot and jump back out of LoS. Together with min-sized pathfinder/ranger squads to camp objectives.

I tend to rely on other FOC slots to actually do something though.

OK, let's say you have a squad of 6 Rangers ~115 points.
6 Shots = 2 Misses, 3 AP6 Hits, 1 AP1 hit.
1 AP6 hit will wound, .5 hits will become AP2, .5 of the AP1 hits will wound.
If they even have a little bit of cover you'll only take out a single model.

I can't tell you how many times I've played against Eldar players who just got rolled by flamers, barrage, etc because they rely too much on Rangers/Pathfinders.

He's got a point. Pathfinders are so silly good with their precision fire and 5+ Ap1 that it is easy for a normally competent Eldar play to get lazy. Cover saves are no longer the universal force-field they used to be.

Personally, regardless of edition IMO Dire Avengers continue to shine as the first of all aspects should. They are reasonably priced, put out loads of accurate S4 fire and have nifty exarch powers. I would take 6 squads if I could.

Last couple games, my DA have really carried the day with Bladestorming the enemy and just being a solid line unit in a codex full of overpriced under-performing space clowns in spandex. Even without psyker support, they can steal bring the pain.

 Tusken Sith Lord wrote:
I would take 6 squads if I could.

Uh... you can take squads

Your post doesn't really add anything to help answer his question.

I know I can take 6 squads, I just don't own 6 squads.

I personally only see it as "fluffy" to have equal or greater numbers of Guardians versus Dire Avengers if the Eldar are on the defensive, and as such I could completely overlook the weakness of Guardians, if only they had longer range catapults.

I think even at their current cost, if they had an 18" range, coupled with move-and-fire heavy weapons platforms, it would show their high technology/frail nature.

Hell, back in 2nd edition, when I started, Shuriken catapults were better than Boltguns! 24inch range, the fire rate of a Storm Bolter, and better Armor penetration (as measured in the rules of 2nd edition, armor penetration subtracted from the models armor save D6 roll, a Bolter was -1, Catapult was -2.).