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Chrysler's union workers are taking a stand designed to put them in the position they enjoyed in years past, just around the time we had our tax money shoveled into that black hole of a company.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/12/08/chrysler-workers-canned-for-drinking-on-job-reinstated/?intcmp=obinsite

Wait, I thought conservatives were in favor of the free market? What possible objection could you make to a private business choosing to re-hire employees, or for employees to negotiate contracts with their employers? Shouldn't you be holding this up as a shining example of how the free market works?

I'm guessing he has more of a problem with the union involvement.

 Ma55ter_fett wrote:
I'm guessing he has more of a problem with the union involvement.

Unions are part of the free market.

 Peregrine wrote:
Wait, I thought conservatives were in favor of the free market? What possible objection could you make to a private business choosing to re-hire employees, or for employees to negotiate contracts with their employers? Shouldn't you be holding this up as a shining example of how the free market works?

Read the article, the guys were drinking and possibly doing weed during work hours. These guys don't give a crap about the quality they're putting out and we're going to end up facing having to bail that company out again because these are the type of workers the union defends.

Relapse wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Wait, I thought conservatives were in favor of the free market? What possible objection could you make to a private business choosing to re-hire employees, or for employees to negotiate contracts with their employers? Shouldn't you be holding this up as a shining example of how the free market works?

Read the article, the guys were drinking and possibly doing weed during work hours. These guys don't give a crap about the quality they're putting out and we're going to end up facing having to bail that company out again because these are the type of workers the union defends.

Are you implying that 13 employees single handedly caused the Auto Bailout?

Relapse wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Wait, I thought conservatives were in favor of the free market? What possible objection could you make to a private business choosing to re-hire employees, or for employees to negotiate contracts with their employers? Shouldn't you be holding this up as a shining example of how the free market works?

Read the article, the guys were drinking and possibly doing weed during work hours. These guys don't give a crap about the quality they're putting out and we're going to end up facing having to bail that company out again because these are the type of workers the union defends.

So what? That's how the free market works. Chrysler is free to negotiate a new contract with different workers if it doesn't like how the current approach is working, just like the union is free to defend its own interests above the employer's profits and risk losing their nice comfortable contract if they go too far. Their choice of private contracts and business strategies are none of our business.

At least according to the conservative worldview. Are you now going to admit that the liberals are right and government regulation of business is necessary?

 Dreadwinter wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Wait, I thought conservatives were in favor of the free market? What possible objection could you make to a private business choosing to re-hire employees, or for employees to negotiate contracts with their employers? Shouldn't you be holding this up as a shining example of how the free market works?

Read the article, the guys were drinking and possibly doing weed during work hours. These guys don't give a crap about the quality they're putting out and we're going to end up facing having to bail that company out again because these are the type of workers the union defends.

Are you implying that 13 employees single handedly caused the Auto Bailout?

You know better than that. It's obvious there are otjer factors, but the fact the union fights to keep these and others like them working at Chrysler doesn't make that companies future look promising.

Relapse wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Wait, I thought conservatives were in favor of the free market? What possible objection could you make to a private business choosing to re-hire employees, or for employees to negotiate contracts with their employers? Shouldn't you be holding this up as a shining example of how the free market works?

Read the article, the guys were drinking and possibly doing weed during work hours. These guys don't give a crap about the quality they're putting out and we're going to end up facing having to bail that company out again because these are the type of workers the union defends.

Are you implying that 13 employees single handedly caused the Auto Bailout?

You know better than that. It's obvious there are otjer factors, but the fact the union fights to keep these and others like them working at Chrysler doesn't make that companies future look promising.

Were you planning on investing?

 aosol wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Wait, I thought conservatives were in favor of the free market? What possible objection could you make to a private business choosing to re-hire employees, or for employees to negotiate contracts with their employers? Shouldn't you be holding this up as a shining example of how the free market works?

Read the article, the guys were drinking and possibly doing weed during work hours. These guys don't give a crap about the quality they're putting out and we're going to end up facing having to bail that company out again because these are the type of workers the union defends.

Are you implying that 13 employees single handedly caused the Auto Bailout?

You know better than that. It's obvious there are otjer factors, but the fact the union fights to keep these and others like them working at Chrysler doesn't make that companies future look promising.

Were you planning on investing?

The government already made that descision for me with the bailout.

So do you actually have a proposed solution for this, or are you just complaining that the union is more concerned with looking after the interests of its members than making sure the company's profits are maximized? Because given that this is the entire point of a union, it makes about as much sense as complaining that water is wet.

 Peregrine wrote:
....are you just complaining that the union is more concerned with looking after the interests of its members than making sure the company's profits are maximized?

I hate to say "I told you so" but,

 Ma55ter_fett wrote:
I'm guessing he has more of a problem with the union involvement.

What I asked was does he have a solution, or is he just complaining about water being wet. I know what his objection is, what I want to know is if he actually has anything resembling a viable plan to fix it.

Glad I don't buy Chrysler vehicles. Company should have gone down hard.

 Peregrine wrote:
What I asked was does he have a solution, or is he just complaining about water being wet. I know what his objection is, what I want to know is if he actually has anything resembling a viable plan to fix it.

Common sense not to have people that are drunk or stoned on the assembly line springs immediatly to mind.

Relapse wrote:
Common sense not to have people that are drunk or stoned on the assembly line springs immediatly to mind.

But this is a free market. If Chrysler feels that having drunk and stoned workers on the assembly line is a better decision than ending their current union contracts and negotiating a new contract, which allows the firing of drunk and/or stoned assembly line workers, with a new set of employees, then what business do you have criticizing that decision? Isn't the freedom to create any desired contracts between parties a fundamental part of conservative economic ideology?

And, more importantly, what do you think is the proper solution to Chrysler's decision in this case? Are you just complaining about water being wet, or do you actually have a proposal that would change the situation?

It's Obama's fault...

 Peregrine wrote:

Relapse wrote:
Common sense not to have people that are drunk or stoned on the assembly line springs immediatly to mind.

But this is a free market. If Chrysler feels that having drunk and stoned workers on the assembly line is a better decision than ending their current union contracts and negotiating a new contract, which allows the firing of drunk and/or stoned assembly line workers, with a new set of employees, then what business do you have criticizing that decision? Isn't the freedom to create any desired contracts between parties a fundamental part of conservative economic ideology?

And, more importantly, what do you think is the proper solution to Chrysler's decision in this case? Are you just complaining about water being wet, or do you actually have a proposal that would change the situation?

If you can't see what's wrong with the picture here there's not much point in t rying to educate you in a couple of posts.

Relapse wrote:
If you can't see what's wrong with the picture here there's not much point in t rying to educate you in a couple of posts.

I can see plenty of things being wrong, but that's because I'm not a free-market conservative. What I'm asking for is YOUR solution to the problem.

You keep talking free market, but free market isn't a
Government pumping billions of dollars into a company. More so with one whose business model on management and union levels is so obviously lacking that they don't do the basics such as keeping drunk or stoned people away from operating dangerous equipment and making product they hope be competative with.

But this is a free market. If Chrysler feels that having drunk and stoned workers on the assembly line is a better decision than ending their current union contracts and negotiating a new contract, which allows the firing of drunk and/or stoned assembly line workers, with a new set of employees, then what business do you have criticizing that decision? Isn't the freedom to create any desired contracts between parties a fundamental part of conservative economic ideology?

It is, the missing part of the picture is where if Chrysler were to fire their entire workforce and start from scratch the union would likely riot. I mean, it's one thing to have the ability to freely negotiate contracts, it's another to be threatened with violence if you don't like what one side wants and decide to shop elsewhere. Or have you never heard of scabs getting beaten up?

Relapse wrote:
You keep talking free market, but free market isn't a
Government pumping billions of dollars into a company. More so with one whose business model on management and union levels is so obviously lacking that they don't do the basics such as keeping drunk or stoned people away from operating dangerous equipment and making product they hope be competative with.

Ok, so you're in favor of not giving another bailout and allowing the loss of jobs and strategically valuable industry as a result. But what does that have to do with the current situation, and what is your proposed solution to the drunk/stoned workers?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ratbarf wrote:
It is, the missing part of the picture is where if Chrysler were to fire their entire workforce and start from scratch the union would likely riot. I mean, it's one thing to have the ability to freely negotiate contracts, it's another to be threatened with violence if you don't like what one side wants and decide to shop elsewhere. Or have you never heard of scabs getting beaten up?

You know, the funny thing about history is that it wasn't the unions hiring mercenaries to kill striking workers and end the strike.

You know, the funny thing about history is that it wasn't the unions hiring mercenaries to kill striking workers and end the strike.

Ooh, selective history! I love this game! Did you know that that hasn't happened in america since the 40's/50's? Did you know that scabs still can't cross union lines without getting beaten up or severely injured today?

 Ratbarf wrote:
Ooh, selective history! I love this game! Did you know that that hasn't happened in america since the 40's/50's? Did you know that scabs still can't cross union lines without getting beaten up or severely injured today?

Of course it hasn't happened in the US in a while, but only because the government stepped in and put an end to it. Just like I'm sure they'd step in and put an end to a mass riot if a union started one.

Well, no clue where the factory is located but some states are pushing through right to work legislation that basically ends this sort of thing by giving employees the right to decide whether or not they join a union.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Well, no clue where the factory is located but some states are pushing through right to work legislation that basically ends this sort of thing by giving employees the right to decide whether or not they join a union.

Yeah, what's funny is that it's conservatives that support it, proving that their support for the "free market" is just a lie, and what they really mean is "give more to the rich".

Of course it hasn't happened in the US in a while, but only because the government stepped in and put an end to it. Just like I'm sure they'd step in and put an end to a mass riot if a union started one.

They might stop a mass riot, but likely not before damage was done, and then who do you charge? Riots are notoriously hard to prosecute. Also, they don't usually step in and provide safe conduct for scabs, as I beleive the Police union stops them.

Peregrine wrote:

 Ratbarf wrote:
Ooh, selective history! I love this game! Did you know that that hasn't happened in america since the 40's/50's? Did you know that scabs still can't cross union lines without getting beaten up or severely injured today?

Of course it hasn't happened in the US in a while, but only because the government stepped in and put an end to it. Just like I'm sure they'd step in and put an end to a mass riot if a union started one.

Sounds made up. Everyone lives in a violence free egalitarian utopia now that Obama has four more years.

chaos0xomega wrote:Well, no clue where the factory is located but some states are pushing through right to work legislation that basically ends this sort of thing by giving employees the right to decide whether or not they join a union.

I'm not particularly pro-union, but right to work doesn't mean you get a choice. It's union busting plain and simple, and in the grand scheme it's a gakky idea.

Relapse wrote:
Chrysler's union workers are taking a stand designed to put them in the position they enjoyed in years past, just around the time we had our tax money shoveled into that black hole of a company.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/12/08/chrysler-workers-canned-for-drinking-on-job-reinstated/?intcmp=obinsite

1. Had the Union workers really get a good wage?
2. If so, List the name of Unions engaging in this protest please? Teamster should be one if them and it is possible that Triads rigged them up.

 Lone Cat wrote:

Relapse wrote:
Chrysler's union workers are taking a stand designed to put them in the position they enjoyed in years past, just around the time we had our tax money shoveled into that black hole of a company.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/12/08/chrysler-workers-canned-for-drinking-on-job-reinstated/?intcmp=obinsite

1. Had the Union workers really get a good wage?
2. If so, List the name of Unions engaging in this protest please? Teamster should be one if them and it is possible that Triads rigged them up.

???? Lonecat what are you smoking?

“While the company does not agree with the ultimate decision of the arbitrator, we respect the grievance procedure process as outlined in the collective bargaining agreement and our relationship with the (United Auto Workers union),”

Could it be that Chrysler didn't follow proper procedure in sacking the workers? Whilst they may have wanted the workers gotten rid of, if they didn't use the right practices,as laid down in worker contracts they would have to reinstate?

either way Chrysler seem happy to move on.