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I posted this in LISTs section but I was curious what y'all thought of my thinking here...

With regards to the lootas: Something I've been thinking about. I normally run 15 (or more recently 8/7). I suspect that you are using 11 so that you can be fearless? If you lose even one loota they are no longer fearless, and with that first bad shooting attack, they cannot "Go to Ground". So IMHO the goal would be to have to make a larger burden to cause a morale check on a non-fearless mob.

Models Count:___#Unsaved wounds causing a check:
15____________5 (loses fearless)
14____________4
13____________4
12____________3
11____________3
10____________3
9_____________3
8_____________2
7_____________2

So I think that *MAYBE the ideal model count would be 9 for a loota mob. For 3 reasons
1. Affordability (points)
2. Ability to "Go to Ground" electively
3. Must lose 3 models before morale check necessary. and would use the base 7 Leadership.

I think the two *WORST model counts would be 12 followed by 8


Thinking on-line... sorry if off topic...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS:
Looks like I need one more loota....
Now that I think about it.... HAH!!!

10 is the ideal number. As you mentioned, the ability to go to ground is incredibly useful. GtG behind an Aegis for a 2+ and still snap fire. That is the key.

why 10 more than 9? extra shots? Ld buff? 15pts to spare?
Did i answer my own question?

why 10 more than 9? extra shots? Ld buff? 15pts to spare?
Did i answer my own question?

10 gives you the best LD without becoming fearless.

 JGrand wrote:

why 10 more than 9? extra shots? Ld buff? 15pts to spare?
Did i answer my own question?

10 gives you the best LD without becoming fearless.

This, Not being fearless so that you can Go to Ground.

so like 9 with a mek and go for the KMB or no?

I dislike the KMB.... intensely.
No mek unless you are mechanized/embarked IMHO



Automatically Appended Next Post:
With the KMB the mek is nearly as likely to kill himself has to hit something.

A mek means that many less shots of Deffgun-death. I only would take meks with burnas, but even then I find it a waste unless they could take bosspoles.

Ideal is 5 or 15. Either or...

Lately I'm liking max squads standing behind the ADL.

I run squads of 7. But I like the sound of mobs of 10.

Increments of 5. 5 for just a very cheap firing unit able to take out a transport or two well enough, while being a pain to dedicate fire on because of their cost. 10 lets you go to ground and have highest leadership base, as previously mentioned, and 15 just for having so many bullets flying that it's stupid.

I take 12 Lootas and 3 Big Shoota Meks for a guaranteed 21 shots, averaging 33, and up to 45. Plus the Meks can put Precision Shots on 6s.

 whembly wrote:
Ideal is 5 or 15. Either or...

Lately I'm liking max squads standing behind the ADL.

Where this was true in 5th, I think 10 is a viable # now.

In fact I've been using 10 in all my games, except where I had some pts left that I used 12.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 whembly wrote:
Ideal is 5 or 15. Either or...

Lately I'm liking max squads standing behind the ADL.

Where this was true in 5th, I think 10 is a viable # now.

In fact I've been using 10 in all my games, except where I had some pts left that I used 12.

YMMV...

The problem I've had running any squads other than 5 or 15 is that they seem to break too early. When I started using lootas, I built by list to run 3 squads of 10... but, they just run man. That hasn't changed in 6th.

But, I'd agree that this is a personal call. There's really no "right" number.

I'm curious, has anyone tried Lootas in BW? I know that's talk of doing that... curious how that works out??

From what I hear, the battlewagon lootas make a pretty powerful weapon. It is expensive, but it is durable and puts out enough firepower to make up for it.

I really want to try lootas in a BW, however I'm too busy running 3 BW's with Shoota Boyz currently. Really enjoying Deffrollas in 6th.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
I really want to try lootas in a BW, however I'm too busy running 3 BW's with Shoota Boyz currently. Really enjoying Deffrollas in 6th.

You can still tankshock moving 12" (13" w/ rpg) right? But, can the tank shock during flatout phase?

On the Loota topics, they can snapfire after the BW tankshock/rammed something...right?

Ah yes shootaboys in BWs. I personally have recently started to try out Freekz after so many years of the Tide, and I have decided to be unique and have Shootaboys in the trukks as opposed to a battlewagon or using sluggaboys.

As far as lootas go. I like either 5 or 10 in my units. 5 are cheaper and more for anti-vehicle, and the 10 are more versatile with AT, AP, and AA but expensive.

 whembly wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
I really want to try lootas in a BW, however I'm too busy running 3 BW's with Shoota Boyz currently. Really enjoying Deffrollas in 6th.

You can still tankshock moving 12" (13" w/ rpg) right? But, can the tank shock during flatout phase?

On the Loota topics, they can snapfire after the BW tankshock/rammed something...right?

Can't flatout tankshock.

Yea, you can Ram/shock and shoot.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 whembly wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
I really want to try lootas in a BW, however I'm too busy running 3 BW's with Shoota Boyz currently. Really enjoying Deffrollas in 6th.

You can still tankshock moving 12" (13" w/ rpg) right? But, can the tank shock during flatout phase?

On the Loota topics, they can snapfire after the BW tankshock/rammed something...right?

Can't flatout tankshock.

Yea, you can Ram/shock and shoot.

Thanks brother!

 whembly wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 whembly wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
I really want to try lootas in a BW, however I'm too busy running 3 BW's with Shoota Boyz currently. Really enjoying Deffrollas in 6th.

You can still tankshock moving 12" (13" w/ rpg) right? But, can the tank shock during flatout phase?

On the Loota topics, they can snapfire after the BW tankshock/rammed something...right?

Can't flatout tankshock.

Yea, you can Ram/shock and shoot.

Thanks brother!

NPz just keeping the Green revolution alive.

As others have pointed out, increments of 5.

5 - because if they run, you lose a minimal amount of points.

15 - make use of Mob Rule, and a huge amount of shots

10 - High number of shots with good leadership.

In 5th, 5 and 15 were the preferred method, though I always ran them at 10 per mob. Seeing what others are saying about going to ground, seems it's an even better idea now.

As for Lootas in a Battlewagon - it depends on what you want your wagon to do. Remember that if the Wagon moves, your lootas will be snap-firing. Not a huge issue for Orks, but something to note. I've enjoyed trying it out, but was somewhat disappointed by the lower amounts of hits I was getting.

EDIT:

Oh, right, and about putting Meks in Lootas. I'd generally not suggest as such - I only do it if the Lootas/Burnas are in a Wagon, so I can repair hullpoints. If you give them the free Big Shoota, statistically you've got the same chance of wounding a t4 model, but lose out on wounding tougher models, suffer the shorter range, and the ability to endanger armour 10-12 vehicles.

 JGrand wrote:

why 10 more than 9? extra shots? Ld buff? 15pts to spare?
Did i answer my own question?

10 gives you the best LD without becoming fearless.

but when do you need to make leadership tests? when you lose 25%, meaning there wony be 10 guys left when making ld tests?

 whembly wrote:
Ideal is 5 or 15. Either or...

Lately I'm liking max squads standing behind the ADL.

This is my take on it. If the game is large enough to call for more, then 15. But I mostly run them in blobs of 5, with great results. Its 75pts for either a unit your opponent ignores, and loses tanks over, or its a 75pt bullet magnet. A bullet magnet.....for 75pts guys..... you cant beat that

 whembly wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
I really want to try lootas in a BW, however I'm too busy running 3 BW's with Shoota Boyz currently. Really enjoying Deffrollas in 6th.

You can still tankshock moving 12" (13" w/ rpg) right? But, can the tank shock during flatout phase?

On the Loota topics, they can snapfire after the BW tankshock/rammed something...right?

Iam working on a army with:

13 loota's with 3 KMB meks in a Battlewagon with big shoota's and deffrolla
15 loota's with 3 KMB meks and big mek with KFF in a Battlewagon with big shoota's and deffrolla
13 loota's with 3 KMB meks in a Battlewagon with big shoota's and deffrolla

* dont forget the fact that you can shoot overwatch against enemy units that charge the battlewagon.
* still like the KMB meks because at sum point you will hit with those S8 ap2 shots and that means a dead Dreadknight/Greater Daemon or destroyed flyer. also like the possibility to instant kill a model with precision shot..
* battlewagon needs those big shoota's to drop down flying monsterous creatures...the drop and loota's shoot..!
* you can add a mega armour warboss to the loota's and disembark, shoot and still assault a unit with slow and purposeful. If the battlewagon explodes you can take all these wounds with you warboss 2+ save...

KMB's on infantry is risky, since you have a 15% chance of losing your Mek each time he fires. I much prefer the Big Shootas - it saves on cost, being free, and still grants some good firepower. Besides, you can't shoot if you're fixing your wagon anyhow.

Note that if you have a Mega Armoured Warboss with the Lootas, they can't overwatch if someone assaults the Wagon.

 Kharrak wrote:
KMB's on infantry is risky, since you have a 15% chance of losing your Mek each time he fires. I much prefer the Big Shootas - it saves on cost, being free, and still grants some good firepower. Besides, you can't shoot if you're fixing your wagon anyhow.

Note that if you have a Mega Armoured Warboss with the Lootas, they can't overwatch if someone assaults the Wagon.

big shoota's are great but orks really lack big (penetrating) guns and got a lot of big shoota's around. Let the shootaboyz do the infantry shooting..
Daemons, vendetta's and necron flyers are the real threat nowadays.. dont like dreadknights either...

Warboss can also join shootaboys or assault on his own if wise.

I haven't run lootas in battle wagons, but I have thought about it. In general, because of the price of lootas and that they are by definition, ranged attackers, loading them in a BW with a rolla seems counter intuitive to tactical military dogma. That is, charge ranged fighters, stand off from close combat experts. Or in ork: "Chop dere shootas, an' shoot dere choppas."

A far better use of mek load-outs in BW seems like it would be burnas, unless you are using the BW as a mobile firing platform. By that I mean keeping the BW in your backfield with the squishy rear armor unexposed taking shots with the superior range of the lootas (essentially a mobile bastion).

Finally, KingCracker I think makes a good point as most people know to prioritize lootas when they can. 5 lootas who will nearly insta-run is a cheap way to give cover to advancing mobs or vehicles - by attracting high strength/range blasts that would otherwise decimate your choppy mobs. The main drawback is you could potentially give up a Victory Point on T1 (First Blood).

Good discussion. Thanks for all the ideas.
DrG

MarkyMark wrote:

 JGrand wrote:

why 10 more than 9? extra shots? Ld buff? 15pts to spare?
Did i answer my own question?

10 gives you the best LD without becoming fearless.

but when do you need to make leadership tests? when you lose 25%, meaning there wony be 10 guys left when making ld tests?

there are a ton of leadership tests out there that are not caused by 25% casualties.

I have run lootas in a bw with a mega boss. It's a lot of fun but makes for an expensive target.
I've also run a mega boss with a mek sag in that bw full of lootas, mobile sag is awesome, but I only do it for fun. Its way too pricey.