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Well, the last matches in the league I'm playing at my city are on. Now everybody have 1 live left, and losing a match is getting of the league.

I haven't got a single problem the rest of the matchs, but now I've to get serious.

I'm playing vs Tau next game, and I'm afraid that dreadnoughts will not do a lot to them, because of their shooting, and I'm thinking in getting a melee list.


For HQ, I've thought about this:

Mordrak with 5 ghosts, 1 of them with banner, another with hammer, rest with halberds.

Malleus inq. in TDA with mastery 1 and psycannon.
OR
Librarian with beamer and halberd.

I've seen trough reports, that this combination is very powerful, as you can inflict a lot of damage to the tau core unit very quickly. The thing would be deepstriking them with the Mordrak rule 1" next to them, and as close as possible to another not-so-running unit, just because they might run a lot, and I could not catch them, I don't want to be a free target for them to shoot at.

The other option would be the librarian, it cost 60 points more, it doesn't bring a psycannon, and it brings 2 wounds only. He brings a location beamer, though, and I could deepstrike something else next to them, but with the list I've made I can not field less things in the table (50% of reserve units thingy). He brings 2 powers too, but with the reroll to hit that brings the inquisitor would be ok.

So, my first choice would be the inquisitor.

Now let's go with the troops:

10 x GKSS with 2 psycannons and psyammo. (x2)

Well, one of this just sits in my base, holding an objective or the base. The another one goes in a stormraven, to get in assault in turn 3.

Fast attack:

Stormraven with AC & MM
OR
Stormraven with LC & MM

Air fire support and good GKSS transport. In turn 3 or 4 it goes hover mode and deploy them next to a unit, shoots and pray to don't die this turn, so it can go zooming again. By this time, I should have get rid of a lot of things that could harm it, or have better things to get shoot. I can move it in shoot phase too, to get the Jink rule.

Heavy:

Well, damm me that I don't own a single DK, if so they would be obligatory. As I don't do so, this is what I've been thinking:

2 x Psyfleman dreadnoughts.

Simple, they start hidden, as everything does due to reserves or deployment, and also I give Tau the 1st turn (if possible). In my first turn I get them into a shooting place in ruins, while Mordrak deepstrike. He lost 1 turn of shooting and I don't. If he shoots the Dreads, it means he won't be shooting Mordrak. Cool.

1490 points in total, I've 10 to spare.

I want to ask Tau or experienced GK players that had fought Tau how this would work, and any advice would be appreciated.

Mordrak will give his unit the capture objective thingy, and if he can give it to 2 or 3 units, the Dreadnoughts will be the one who take that treat too.

Overall, tau are just not the best codex around anymore. They are an Old book where stuff just costs a bit more than it should. They can still be deadly in the right hands, but they are not the most feared army on the table at the moment.




As for your list:

I would drop the Banner in the ghost unit. Banners work best on larger units. The unit is just too small to make good use of it.

Your Inquisitor would be really great with the Psyker upgrade. the divination power that gives Re-rolls to hit is amazing.

You should not put any unit into the storm raven.
1) If it crashes the unit inside will die
2) Strike squads are NOT assault units, they are shooting units. you want them shooting as much as possible.
3) For them to get out, you either need to hover, or risk a deep strike. Neither is a great option.
Storm Ravens are really good just as a flying gunboat.

If you have 10 points to spare, A good way to spend them would be on servo skulls. If the tau is bringing a lot of kroot it would force them back into their deployment zone. Maybe also prevent some pathfinders from scouting as well.

Thanks for the info.

As for the Stormraven, I've never got it down, and the strike squad inside have always got into assault.

I understand what you say about GKSS not being an assault unit, but vs Tau is not a bad assaulting unit.

About the banner, it's giving 7 extra attacks, 2 of them with hammer, 4 of them with I7, 1 of them at I4. All of them rerolling because divination. I think the unit is larger enough to got it.

The servoskulls idea is very good, as I think that the guy I play against is fielding Kroots.

You have two scoring units at 1500. Problem.

 TheCaptain wrote:
You have two scoring units at 1500. Problem.

It seems that you only read the list without the comments, right?

As I said, rolling the grandmaster thingy:

With 1-2: Mordrak unit can take objectives.
With 3-4: Mordrak and 1 dreadnought.
With 5-6: Mordrak and 2 dreadnoughts.

ok...

First thing to keep in mind is that this is just my opinion. Secondly, the Tau are arguably the worst army for the grey knights to fight. They can out shoot you with 30" range, and their battlesuits can pack enough plasma to turn every terminator in your army to jelly. And just in case you decided to run vehicles, he's probably packing at least 3 twin-linked railguns. That said, let's go.

HQ: Only take 1 HQ, the GK choices are (mostly) expensive, and you can get more firepower taking another strike squad instead. I've been known to take a naked inquisitor to fill the mandatory HQ slot and using the points on more troops or a vehicle. Mordrak might work because of the termies and his deep strike, but make sure you get your points worth out of him. Give him a specific target.

Troops look good, but don't go in a stormraven because...

Fast Attack: DO NOT put a unit in your stormraven. Against most armies, you will probably use is as soon as it goes into hover mode. Against the Tau, you definitely will. It will probably come in on turn 2, and it's likely that your opponent will still have at least one railgun itching to lock on to some AV12 by turn 3. If you drop the knights with shadow skies, the knights will have to deal with some very angry rapid-fire. It'd be better to be shooting with them from turn 1, especially if you're paying for 2 psycannons and psybolt.
Maybe give the storm raven some hurricane bolters? Multi-melta on a tank, then rapid fire+assault cannon+missile a different unit (power of the machine spirit). I personally like the plasma cannon vs. the assault cannon due to the AP2, but that's just me.

Heavy support looks good, there's really no better options in this case...everything else is railgun food.

Some other slightly weirder options to consider:
Vindicare Assassin: He's expensive but a good anti-vehicle option; and if you can stick him in a ruin your opponent will waste a lot of shots on his cover save.
Orbital Strike: Every Tau player I've fought against plays in a block. If you crack open his transports (or if he doesn't have them), a barrage bomb will probably do some serious damage. Cheap option is to take a techmarine with strike relay, or you could go with a brother captain w/one.

I don't have my codex in front of me right now, but I do not believe Mordrak can be made scoring with Grand Strategy. Thought I remembered reading that he is excluded, could be wrong though. That being said, I love Mordrak. The only issue with him is the lack of psycannon or the option for psybolt ammo. That stinks, but it is what it is I guess.

 Homeskillet wrote:
I don't have my codex in front of me right now, but I do not believe Mordrak can be made scoring with Grand Strategy. Thought I remembered reading that he is excluded, could be wrong though. That being said, I love Mordrak. The only issue with him is the lack of psycannon or the option for psybolt ammo. That stinks, but it is what it is I guess.

What you mean is that a IC or a character can't be made scoring, but when Mordrak have ghosts, he make the ghost unit (where he is like an upgrade to the squad) scoring, and due him being part of the unit, not an added, he is made scoring too.

Well, one thing to be wary of is the double-hammerhead. AV13 that will enjoy cover of 3+ at most time is a bitch to deal with, and should never be underestimated, especially if you guys play with forgeworld and then he will just pound you with the plasma cannon head.

Another issue is relying on assualt units, you have no garantee these guys will actually make it alive into a fistfight without proper cover fire, tau are nimble and can wreck havoc in range.

Forget about dreads, heck forget about anything with an AV value, the broadsides will just pick it apart with easy and for much less points. if you KNOW tau is up, just avoid giving him easy railgun food.

Deep-striking dreadknights can be useful, Tau are a bit lacking in guns that are good against them and not point-blank, and in point-blank the dreadknight himself is quite fearsome. be careful for fusion-plasma crisis suits if you use that tactic, they are quite good at killing dreadknights.

I would drop the armor in favor of swarming a bit more foot sluggers into the field. it does not help you to get to the Tau lines quickly if you don't have the numbers to survive a volley of pulse fire.

Because seriously, as a tau player, there is nothing I would like better then seeing multiple armored units on the other list, my experience tells me that the more armor the enemy packs, the higher my win rates.

Have the Inquisitor, attached to Mordok and his ghosts, equip an Ulumeathi Plasma Syphon. For 10 points, it will give your Termy-ghosts a 12" bubble for all plasma weapons fired at them, to fire at BS1.

Q: What counts as a plasma weapon for the Ulumeathi Plasma
Syphon? (p62)
A: All Plasma weapons, as well as Eldar missile launchers firing
plasma missiles, burst cannons, starcannons, all Tau pulse
weapons and any weapon described as using ‘plasma’ as its
effect or in its special rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you want to try something a little more risky, don't take the Inquisitor, instead take the Librarian and use The Summoning power to summon a squad of 10x Termys with 2x Psycannons to your Mordok squad. Or if you want to get really daring, use The Summoning power on a Land Raider Redeemer with a Warp Stabilization Field (with the twin Flame Storm Cannons) (obviously filled with 6 more Termys to assualt out). Now you've got a serious close combat threat, and right in your face.

Thanks for all the tips!

Formless:

The only inquisitor that can take the plasma thingy can't take TDA.

< Taken by the void dragon. >

DakotaBlue wrote:
What you mean is that a IC or a character can't be made scoring, but when Mordrak have ghosts, he make the ghost unit (where he is like an upgrade to the squad) scoring, and due him being part of the unit, not an added, he is made scoring too.

Grand Strategy explicitly says you cannot use it with Mordrak's Ghost Knights.

As far actual analysis: Psyflemen die really easily against Tau. Broadsides eat them for breakfast. Take Dreadknights, they can take much more punishment and will cause serious issues to the Tau player if you get them close, either via Deep Strike or shunt.

Terminators are generally pretty poor choice against Tau, because Tau generally have more than enough AP2 to deal with them, meaning you're paying twice the price for 0-30% (cover/no cover) better survivability than Strikes.

As for HQ's go, take either coteaz and/or OM TDA inquisitor with psycannon + psyker. With Divination, those both are very good and reasonably priced HQ options, whose only downside is that they're easy to ID.

FormlessDragon wrote:

If you want to try something a little more risky, don't take the Inquisitor, instead take the Librarian and use The Summoning power to summon a squad of 10x Termys with 2x Psycannons to your Mordok squad. Or if you want to get really daring, use The Summoning power on a Land Raider Redeemer with a Warp Stabilization Field (with the twin Flame Storm Cannons) (obviously filled with 6 more Termys to assualt out). Now you've got a serious close combat threat, and right in your face.

You can not cast "summoning" the turn you deep strike, same as any other "Start or Turn" powers. You are not on the board at the start of the turn.

Also, the librarian will probably be in the middle of a unit (unless you want him to get shot up first. You will need to place a unit within 6" of him (and probably very close to the edge of the unit). You will then roll for scatter. That is not "a little more risky" that is "exceedingly risky"

Teleport homers do not prevent units you "summoned" from scattering. The only way to do that is with Henchmen Mystics.

If you summon a Land Raider, it counts as having arrived by deep strike. The unit inside will also count as arriving by seep strike. If you "summon" a land raider, the unit inside can not assault that turn.



so your librarian arrives turn 1, summons a LR turn 2, and the termies can assault turn 3. That does not seem faster than just driving


The summoning is not really a strategy. It is a fun idea, but in practice it is just not that good. I really want to like it, I tried to use it in 5th edition several times (even had the librarian next to a mystic), but it is just not that good.

Well, with all the advice here, and not having access to dreadknights, this is the thing that gets on my mind:

Mordrak with 4 ghost knights
Malleus with mastery 1 and TDA

10x GKSS with 2 psycannons
10x GKSS with 2 psycannons

10x GKIS with 2 psycannons and psyammo
10x GKIS with 2 psycannons and psyammo

1495 p.

The grand strategy makes GKIS objective takers.

Everything start on the board except Mordrak, I give first turn to him if possible, make him lost his 1st turn of shooting, deploy Mordrak, teleport GKSS (or move only), secure my objectives with the GKSS.

40 PA all with stormbolter and force weapon, 6 TDA initially that should be in combat in turn 2, as the GKIS. GKSS will come after things are more calmed to get rid of the things left.

Thoughts?


EDIT:

I can get another list, because I can get a friend to let me some wolves:

GK:

HQ:

Mordrak with 5 ghosts
Coteaz

Troops

10x GKSS 2x psycannon psyammo
10x GKSS 2x psycannon psyammo
9x acolytes 6x bolter 3x melta

WOLVES

HQ

Battle leader with PA, hunter saga, combi plasma

Troops

10x Grey hunters, 2x plasma. drop pod
10x Grey hunters, 2x plasma


The thing would be:

20x GKSS, coteaz and henchmen in the table. The rest on reserves.

Mordrak and 1 drop pod get on in turn 1. In turn 2, the battle leader and the rest of grey hunters arrive from a flank. In turn 3, GKSS should be at shoot range too.

Interceptors are studs. Give them psycannons and hammers and shunt then right next to the big bad armor your opponent was looking forward to crushing you with and watch his jaw drop.

FormlessDragon wrote:
Have the Inquisitor, attached to Mordok and his ghosts, equip an Ulumeathi Plasma Syphon. For 10 points, it will give your Termy-ghosts a 12" bubble for all plasma weapons fired at them, to fire at BS1.

Q: What counts as a plasma weapon for the Ulumeathi Plasma
Syphon? (p62)
A: All Plasma weapons, as well as Eldar missile launchers firing
plasma missiles, burst cannons, starcannons, all Tau pulse
weapons and any weapon described as using ‘plasma’ as its
effect or in its special rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you want to try something a little more risky, don't take the Inquisitor, instead take the Librarian and use The Summoning power to summon a squad of 10x Termys with 2x Psycannons to your Mordok squad. Or if you want to get really daring, use The Summoning power on a Land Raider Redeemer with a Warp Stabilization Field (with the twin Flame Storm Cannons) (obviously filled with 6 more Termys to assualt out). Now you've got a serious close combat threat, and right in your face.

Pulse Rifles and Carbines shoot at BS1 with a Plasma Syphon around?

Damnnnnn, that's awesome.

I'm a tau player and GK usually are no problem if the tau player brings the right units. A good tau list has lots of crisis suits loaded with plasma rifles. This should be your number one priority. Lock them up in cc as quick as you can, they can sit back and drop terms all day. Secondly he should be bringing max firewarriors who will have a lot of shots coming your way and can double tap at 15". If forge world is allowed take out tetras and plasma cannon hammerheads. If not he will run pathfinders which can up bs and or take away your cover. If he brings standard hammerheads, i wouldnt waste a lot trying to hurt them. They have one shot that can hurt a tank per turn, its a big if for him. the hammerhead also has a large blast it can shoot but it is S6 and AP4 which really cant hurt you too much. Most time I play vs Gk they don't have enough models to compete. I'd make your list with as many models as you can. Don't go minimal expensive army type because he will most likely eat your lunch. The teleporter units make a lot of sense in this battle to me. Also I think the siphon thing only works on units w/in 12", but I maybe wrong. Best of luck!!

Plasma Syphons look good but have hidden weaknesses. Most notably, Pulse Rifles can Rapid Fire from 15" away and premeasuring is in the game now, hence the Tau player can easily move even his basic Fire Warrior units in a fashion that prevents the Plasma Syphon from affecting them.

I would definitely not bother with them and certainly wouldn't make them my main game plan against Tau!

 greyknight12 wrote:

Orbital Strike: Every Tau player I've fought against plays in a block. If you crack open his transports (or if he doesn't have them), a barrage bomb will probably do some serious damage. Cheap option is to take a techmarine with strike relay, or you could go with a brother captain w/one.

Take the guy in the throne, park him on an objective with a GKSS and fire off orbital bombardment at them, use the points you save on not having the ghosts to have another GKSS.

Or if you really want to try and go toe to toe range wise take two ordo inquisitors with conversion beamers as far back as you can (this option is still less points then Mordok ). I would then use the assault cannon/ hurricaine bolter storm ranven with psybolt ammo to harrass his troops. While with the extra points maybe throw an interceptor squad with halberds at one of his points and take the game..