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2012/12/21 11:18:05
Subject: 1500 Daemons Vs Marines (no allies for once for either side) [Completed]
Dreadnought with storm bolter and TLLC in a drop pod
Terminators x5 with cycle missle launcher and storm bolters. chainfist x1, power sword x1, power fist x3
Tac squad with plasma gun, plasma cannon, sarge with plasma pistol (10 Men)
Tac squad with plasma gun, plasma cannon, sarge with plasma pistol (10 Men)
Tac squad with plasma gun, plasma cannon, sarge with plasma pistol (10 Men)
Predator with TLLC + 2 heavy bolter side sponsons
Storm Talon with lascannons and assault cannons
Land Speeder with multi-melta and heavy flamer deep striking
Spoiler:
Deployment: short table edge (Hammer and Anvil)
Game: Emperor's Will (2 objectives)
Spoiler:
SM objective in ruins at the far left ruins, the daemons in the near right side ruins
Warlord traits:
Spoiler:
Daemons got Strategic Genius
Marines get Master of defense
Daemons win the roll off and opt to go second.
Both sides were fielding what was thought of as TAC. Neither side really knew what the other was bringing.
List breakdowns:
SM - last few games really showed that speed and manuverability is very important and that too many terminators really are slow slog across the field. Changed up a few things to get some more bodies and to make it more shooty as well. A drop pod with the dread can put the hurt on some of the units like Tau's Tanks or even into some killa kans anyway. Predator should be pretty good as well vs a variety of targets. Key in this game however will be to take out the daemon troops as they can't win without them and they are also squishy. Also since so many things will be clustered together from deep strike, plasma cannons will burn down alot of wounds.
Daemons - giving the new flamers and screamer rules a try. I ran nearly the same lists back in 5th edition but I've swapped out the plaguebearers for some bloodletters to see how they'd do and replaced the juggernauts with flamers. I used to use alot of seekers but always had the screamers ready to go and painted to boot so it was kind of a treat to use them for once. Goal is to get in there and flame everything. Between fate, the 9 flamers and 2 heralds, I got alot of templates going around. Don't got much against flying so I'll just have to ignore the storm talon.
Deployment:
Spoiler:
SM puts guys in the far ruins with a squad combat squadded next to the tank in the ruins and a squad on the objective. The other tac squad is as one unit and holed up on the other objective. Essentially trying to push 24' forwards. Cassius is joined to the squad on the objective. Daemons of course deploy nada
SM turn 1:
Spoiler:
The Drop pod having nothing really to go after decides to camp the daemon's objective.
The dread decides to hide in LOS terrain and do a dance and contest the objective all day long, a thousand nights woo woo.
Nothing else on the map so turn was uneventful. SM hold positions otherwise. No nightfighting at least.
Daemons turn 1
Spoiler:
Rolling for perferred wave.... and we get a 2... *shakes fist at the warp* Oh well there goes the perferred wave and we end up getting:
2 heralds, 1 squad of flamers (4 man one) , blood letters and one squad of horrors (the non-changeling one). Fateweaver is apparently held up at starbucks and is waiting in line for his expresso. Khorne must have wanted to get in on this one.
Horrors come in close (Minimal scatter.) trying to pop the drop pod for first blood with bolt but fail to hit with a 1.
Blood letters and 2 chariot heralds come in close on the isolated group of marines after scattering all over the place. I think I had 9' , 11' and 8 ' scatter for those guys. The blood letters almost mishaps completely into the marines but now end up face to face with rapid fire bolters lol.
The bloodletters run 5' to try and minimize plasma cannon shots. The heralds are close enough to breath and gaze the marines. They end up killing like 3 or 4 of them. Marines pass morale and failed to get rid of the plasma gun, plasma cannon, or plasma pistol so kind of disappointing all in all.
The 4 flamers go ballsy as I figure I'll go all in or go home so deep strike right next to the predator and other marines. Finally (and the only time) I get a direct hit.
Decisions, decisions, I opt to flame the plasma cannon up on the 2nd floor instead of the predator. Not sure if wise but I end up killing all 5 combat squad on the top floor giving me first blood!
No assaults possible so we go to the next turn.
SM turn 2
Spoiler:
The 5 terminators arrive from reserves and deep strike in support of the surrounded marines. The strom talon fails to show up.
And through a combination of great rolls from the cyclone missle launcher and storm bolters managed a bunch of wounds on the herald in front of them. I roll terribly and fail all my 4+ invuls. Down he goes blarg..... Good thing I killed the marines or he'd gotten first blood. That's honestly kind of rare for me as the heralds usually stand up to bunch more fire at their way.
The previously shot up marines repositioned a bit and rapid fire, plasma cannon, etc the bloodletters and get some 6 wounds. I lose all 6 by failing all the invul saves lol. The chaos gods are sure fickle.... Further shooting by Cassius's squad kills the bloodletters down to 2 man at the end of the phase.
The combat squad on the bottom floor and predator turn around and unload into the flamers. He opted to not charge them because wall of death is pretty brutal. The lascannons didn't do anything but the heavy bolters and bolters chew down 2 flamers and leave one flamer with 1 wound. I made like 1 or 2 saves I think.
On the other side of the board, the landspeeder comes in from reserves and deep strikes next to the drop pod with the teleport beacon in it and so does not scatter. The heavy flamer burns down the horror squad to 1 man! The multimelta snap firing fails to do anything. I of course failed every save again lol. Really can't make anything. The drop pod's storm bolters finish off the last horror. Devestating turn for daemons. The dread having nothing better to do, continues to dance the night away.
Daemons Turn 2
Spoiler:
Despite the setback to perferred wave, alot of stuff comes on. Well pretty much everything except the last unit of horrors (which is good since daemons need their squishy troops to stay home till the end)
Fateweaver scatters some 5-6 inches but is safe, the fiends also deviate away from fateweaver and land in terrain but end up safe from dangerous terrain. They run towards fate's bubble but not quite making it. Flamers also scatter some 7 inches forwards but since I origionally put them closer to fatweaver, they actually scatter in somewhat the right direction, i.e. right in the good chaplin's face! The screamers however mishap onto the SM squad in the field and gets misplaced. Marines decide to put them all the way in the far corner of the map in my deployment zone's board edge. They turbo boost trying to get back into the action but will never make it to fateweaver's area.
The surviving chariot decides to leave the bloodletters to w/e fate khorn has for them and goes to help out the flamers hoping to wipe the squad. The 2 surviving flamers move over the ruins and plan to finish off the 5 marines on the ground floor still.
Shooting was a massacre! the 2 flamers wipe out the ground floor marines but couldn't hit the tank. The 5 strong flamers burn 9 marines from the squad in front of them with help from the herald with more breath and gazes. Fateweaver rolls a to try and rear armor the predator but manages to get 2-3 hits off on the chaplin with gaze. He takes out the last marine and has him look out sir the wound. Technically I think the guy was more than 6' away but we played it anyway. The chaplin survives and is royally pissed.
On the other side, the 2 bloodletters decide wth and charges the 7 marines and get the distance easily but lose one from overwatch. The last one gets into base to base but because lacking of grenades, takes a punch from battle brother to the face and dies doing nothing. Oh well guess no blood for the blood god. The marines consolidate a bit more after the fight to get their plasma cannon in place. In retrospect, I should have just not bothered charging lol. No other assaults possible so we go to the marines.
SM turn 3
Spoiler:
Cassius is pissed at the flamers and get ready to wack off some heads. His shooting takes out the wounded flamer. The land speeder moves flatout trying to get the daemons off their base.
With the other squad of flamers essentially out in the open and clumped up, his plasma cannon and other marines unload but only managed 4 wounds with some terrible rolling. The daemons on the other hand...
Without reolling makes a ton of saves lol
The terminators however does a lot better and takes out 2 flamers and puts one wound on one more.
The predator and the newly arrived storm talon then mops up alot more and leave just one flamer with 1 wound. (flew him up 18' from the weeee corner of the board and thus still has a good angle on them)
Assault was fairly predictable with the lone flamer doing 2 wounds to the chaplin who makes both 4++ iron halo saves and pulps the flamer in combat with his rerolling to hits. He consolidates next to the tank to get some LOS blocking I think.
Daemons Turn 3
Spoiler:
The screamers decide that they were too far out to help the rest of the army and so goes to harass the drop pod and still hiding dancing dread. Last unit of horrors stay off the board.
Fateweaver swoops forwards and the flamer and herald goes to surround the predator and chaplin. The storm talon is off the screen of the shot and was being ignored anyway. Fiends were played very incorrectly as I totally forgot what beasts do and so were moving through difficult like infantry instead of like beasts lol.
Shooting fails to do anything with 3 templates hitting both the chaplin and the tank. Chaplin makes his saves and I can't glance the tank for the life of me doing just one hull point and again missing with bolt at point blank range!
Here I at last go look up the rules for beasts and realizes I can charge pretty darn far and get into it with the predator with the fiends. 6 attacks on the charge sees the tank reduced to scrap. Just to see if it'd explode at all, we rolled every single hit and pen and it never exploded @_@....
SM turn 4
Spoiler:
Anways, the storm talon continues to move up and shoot the herald with all it's got. The chaplin also goes after it. Combined shooting along with it being still outside of fate's bubble, knocks it down to 1 wound. The chaplin then charges it but I make some clutch saves and they get locked in combat. Chaplin makes all 2 of the breath invul saves on his way in again.
The surviving marines with the plasma cannon and terminators go after the fiends and kill 3 of them.
The land speeder then decides that the HQ is lost and goes to help beat back the screamers. The drop pod I think manages to put one wound on a screamer along with me failing a dangerous terrain check when I flew over the river.
Daemons Turn 4
Spoiler:
The changeling squad arrives automatically and deep strikes hoping to kill the land speeder with their bolt but scatter horribly and lose one to dangerous and then proceeds to miss every single shot/bounce off av 10 lol.
Fatweaver turns 90' and goes after the surviving marines. I think he manages to kill 1-2.
The surviving fiends go help out the herald against the chaplin and with a lot of rending/forcing wounds gets past T6, 3+ armor and some FnP.
The screamers then go after the dread and drop pod with a multi charge. I was kind of pessimistic with them against dreadnaught AV 12 but boy do number of attacks and armor bane make a big difference. They pen the out of both vehicles and explode them both. Explosions fail to do much of anything.
SM turn 5
Spoiler:
The end is neigh! But my opponent is a great sport and decides to play it out anyway. The landspeeder decides that it's got nothing left to lose goes and shoots up the changeling squad. He makes exactly 10 on his ldr check and manages to wipe the unit with the multi-melta's last shot. That thing is a beast this game taking out almost 200 points of troops by himself.
The storm talon goes to hover mode and takes out the last herald. The marines shoot at fateweaver and manages to actually ground him! Fateweaver makes the rerollable 3+ invul saves against both wounds (including the grounding)
Marines then declare a charge and fateweaver manages to kill 1 with breath causing the charge to fail!
Daemons turn 5
Spoiler:
Screamers go surround the lone speeder.... om nom nom...
The 3 fiends make a beeline for the storm talon that's now in hover mode and rip it right open. Explosion fails to do anything.
Instead of trying to roll for all of the attacks from the screamers we just decide that it exploded and got a 6' explosion. The explosion kills the wounded creamer.
Combined shooting from fatweaver and the lone flamer takes down almost all of the marines and only a sargeant is left from the marines army.
SM turn 6
Spoiler:
We decide to roll it and see if the game continues and it does! The last sergeant shoots at the flamer who makes the rerollable 5++ and lives. He then charges... and is killed from overwatch.
Daemons win by tabling! No one has any troops left so no one has any objectives. Daemons get first blood, warlord and linebreaker. Marines get warlord (thanks to Jy2 pointing it out that fateweaver can't be a warlord in this configuration)
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/12/23 10:50:53
+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
2012/12/21 17:15:31
Subject: Re:1500 Daemons Vs Marines (no allies for once for either side)
I am not really a fan of the Herald configuration - when would you ever not gaze the target you breath?
Also, if you run Tzeetch Heralds and flamersI am a firm believer that you need to run them on Discs to provide a large base for them to DS around. The flamers as they are provide lousy coverage for an alpha strike (3 templates max) whereas you can sometimes fit as many as 6 with a disc.
Finally, I am a big advocate of running an Aegis w/ comms if you want to run Fate. You cannot afford the 1 in 3 chance he sits out on a non preferred wave. It also acts as a force multiplier by putting your whole army in play by Turn 2 a significnat amount of the time.
That said - I do not think there are enough bodies for the SM to take this list on, you should take this pretty easily.
That's an interesting thought on disk and deep strike config. I had honestly never thought of it that way but it totally makes sense. I've traditionally depended on my heralds in 5th as mobile shooting platforms. Used to stick bolts on them and pop tanks for the fiends to mop up but I just decided to make a massive breath army without that much thought. For me, I use them as somewhat sacrifical units as they have a lot of wounds and a decent save so are excellent bullet magnets. I tend to end up with them in combat a bit too much for my liking though.
I'm debating if I should drop the heralds now and maybe go for a lord of change or flying daemon prince now. Thanks for the tip calypso. I also didn't recognize you now that you seem to have a new profile pic lol.
+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
2012/12/22 04:22:54
Subject: Re:1500 Daemons Vs Marines (no allies for once for either side)
sudojoe wrote: That's an interesting thought on disk and deep strike config. I had honestly never thought of it that way but it totally makes sense. I've traditionally depended on my heralds in 5th as mobile shooting platforms. Used to stick bolts on them and pop tanks for the fiends to mop up but I just decided to make a massive breath army without that much thought. For me, I use them as somewhat sacrifical units as they have a lot of wounds and a decent save so are excellent bullet magnets. I tend to end up with them in combat a bit too much for my liking though.
I'm debating if I should drop the heralds now and maybe go for a lord of change or flying daemon prince now. Thanks for the tip calypso. I also didn't recognize you now that you seem to have a new profile pic lol.
I know I opted to change it when I swapped my blog to contribute to the Mandulian Chapel instead. I actually have a picture somewhere (I think it is in a Jy2 battle report) that shows the difference in the base size. I played a tournament two weeks ago and the larger base enabled extremely effective Flamer Alpha Strikes in all the games. Also, the Herald on a Disc w/ Bolt, MoS, We Are Legion in that unit can still shoot at vehicles with the same efficacy (while being protected from CC with the Flamers overwatch) and gets a 2+ Lookout Sir if you mess up on positioning.
The Chariot heralds are good too - I just found a Disc to be invaluable with flamers. I look forward to the full report coming out!
I know I opted to change it when I swapped my blog to contribute to the Mandulian Chapel instead. I actually have a picture somewhere (I think it is in a Jy2 battle report) that shows the difference in the base size. I played a tournament two weeks ago and the larger base enabled extremely effective Flamer Alpha Strikes in all the games. Also, the Herald on a Disc w/ Bolt, MoS, We Are Legion in that unit can still shoot at vehicles with the same efficacy (while being protected from CC with the Flamers overwatch) and gets a 2+ Lookout Sir if you mess up on positioning.
The Chariot heralds are good too - I just found a Disc to be invaluable with flamers. I look forward to the full report coming out!
And here's the picture (on the bottom-right corner)
Frankly, I wouldn't run either. They're easy Slay the Warlord points. I'd rather take the points for the heralds and put it into either more elites, fast attacks (i.e. more screamers) or to bulk up on your troops, but that's just me.
Personally I feel like the extra HQ's more like sacrifical units that tend to get alot of attention but really as kind of sacrifical guys. Fateweaver has traditionally been my warlord so I'm never really in fear of giving up VP's.
They actually give less VP's now that they don't count as troops, or heavy, or fast attack so I can treat them as totally sacrifical except in the Kill points one of course. Getting the rest of this thing written up right now =)
Daemon troops are still my biggest problem. I'm just not happy with horror surviability yet the other choices are kind of even worse. Really want to see some more daemon prince builds. What do you guys recommend at 1500?
+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
2012/12/22 13:41:22
Subject: 1500 Daemons Vs Marines (no allies for once for either side)
jy2 wrote: You can't have Fateweaver be the Warlord. He's only LD9. The Heralds are LD10. The Warlord has to have the higher LD.
Arrrrrrg, totally played that wrong then XD Honestly that's my first game in 6th as daemons and I totally forgot that part. Thanks Jim for pointing that out. I was confused by your previous comments. In the end I don't think it'd have made much difference to this fight but definately will affect how I build lists in the future. That also answers why the masq was your warlord in that last nids vs flamers report. Crazy gaunts lol.
Crap I forgot about my Warlord's ability.
It doesn't work if you are already in a combat. p35
In addition to the above, we had some confusions on what happens during overwatch. Can "We are legion" allow you to shoot both gaze and breath in the same overwatch? We played it such that it didn't since it says "shooting phase" but not sure on it. Also just for clarification, can MC's overwatch? We thought it could since it seems to make sense. Also, something I just thought up, can something like fateweaver use "Boon of mutation" in overwatch? If so, and succeeds, what happens to the spawn?
Does the spawn now block the charge distance and guys have to run around him? Do they charge him now too and force some sort of disorded charge? Too much craziness and shouldn't be allowed? Lastly, can your warlord abilities function if he is in reserves like for rerolling reserve rolls for example? It didn't really matter either way in this fight cause I double failed the horror squad reserves and everything else came on anyway. Also apparently my warlord was on the table, I just didn't know it lol.
+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
2012/12/24 07:16:52
Subject: 1500 Daemons Vs Marines (no allies for once for either side)
jy2 wrote: You can't have Fateweaver be the Warlord. He's only LD9. The Heralds are LD10. The Warlord has to have the higher LD.
Arrrrrrg, totally played that wrong then XD Honestly that's my first game in 6th as daemons and I totally forgot that part. Thanks Jim for pointing that out. I was confused by your previous comments. In the end I don't think it'd have made much difference to this fight but definately will affect how I build lists in the future. That also answers why the masq was your warlord in that last nids vs flamers report. Crazy gaunts lol.
How could say it didn't? I ignored going for Slay the Warlord because Fateweaver is cheese. Had I know that one of your heralds was one of your Warlords I would have targeted them a lot more.
That being said Demons are straight cheese when come to getting first blood. Why do you ask? Because the first turn there is never anything for the opposing player to shoot at unless he manages to go first.
Rape, Pillage, Maim, Capture, Torture, and Repeat
2012/12/24 14:29:18
Subject: Re:1500 Daemons Vs Marines (no allies for once for either side) [Completed]
This is how strong the "new" daemons have become. Despite getting your wrong half in and a bad Turn 2 where you lose most of your guys, you still came back to table your opponent.
to try and rear armor the predator but manages to get 2-3 hits off on the chaplin with gaze. He takes out the last marine and has him look out sir the wound. Technically I think the guy was more than 6' away but we played it anyway. The chaplin survives and is royally pissed.
out of both vehicles and explode them both. Explosions fail to do much of anything.
Rape, Pillage, Maim, Capture, Torture, and Repeat 
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