Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi all,

I need some real help building my SM Minotaur list. I am an experienced player, and I have always done fine with my Imperial Guard and Eldar.. but I'm having real troubles with my new SM army :(.

I could post my list but since it just doesnt work at all, I thought I'd come to the tactics part of the forum to get some well needed tactical tips and tricks.
I'm calling my army a 'minotaur' list because I have the 2 FW minotaur hq models, and I'm painting the entire army bronze with the FW decals (other than that.. there is no real need to stick to the minotaur fluff when it comes to the tips). So it is actually a regular SM army and I'm even willing to proxy my FW Hq for vanilla hq characters.

The main problem i'm having is that my brother (most common opponent) has a Tau and a tyranid army.. and I seem to be having a lot of trouble beating either one.. let alone beating them both with my same list.
With my Eldar I dont even really think about my list, I just take what I feel like that day and 3/4 times I win and in the loss is still after a fun and balanced game.
The trouble with the space marines is the ridiculous cost of the units.. I just cant seem the make any unit earn their points back. 2 night ago I had a landraider with 10 terminators.. It got rail-gunned 1st turn, 3 terms died in the explosion and the rest got killed by plasma. So my turn 1 I was down 700pts :s

So any advice you guys can give me is very welcome.. like I said I know the rules very well and have played over 100 games with my Eldar and IG, so go as advanced as you like.


- Just one note.. I want a maximum of 2 drop pods in my list


My last list contained: Minotaur chapter master, librarian, 10 assault squad, 8 terminators (5 TH/SS, 3 LC), 5 terminators (1 assault cannon), 3 scout bikes with locator, 2 rhinos with 10 marines, 1 scout squad, 5 sternguard with meltas in drop pod. (wich might have done mediocre vs tau.. but got annihilated vs tyranids this night.. wich was to be expected but still)

No need to stick to this list at all .

You're going to need to play the marines very different against tay and Nids. Thats the hard thing to get into your head when you pick up vanilla marines, they aren't shoehorned into one thing. They do it all, only decently instead of very well.

I have an ork and a tau army myself, and I find that if I favor one over the other, it hurts me when I pick my smurfs back up. WHen I play orks, I go forward too fast with my marines, and when I play tau I spend a ton of time trying to set up, only to find that I dont have the reaching power to justify my position at the start and have to spend allot of time correcting the situation.

Against nids, you want to shoot. Target prioritize here as much as you can. If you can kill the pregnant ones, and the psychers quick, you will have a much easier time of the later turns.

against IG, you almost want to approach it like an ork. Shoot something across the board as fast as you can, and start slapping tanks with grenades (SM arent great at assault, but they all have grenades and WS4.) They hit at rear armor, so if you can cut the distance, then you can take the time to make your backfield toys do their job.

Two drop pods is fantastic, but when you take three, two of em will come down on turn one I'd go with sternguard in one (you can proxy a tac squad if you dont have one) and while everyon disagree's with me, I still like the feeling of dropping a dread. If your brothers are cool with it, you can proxy a drop pod as a lucious pattern which counds as an assailt vehicle, Letting you shoot and crump right into something on turn one. I promis you, when you start dropping stuff into the parking lot, IG's rest of the game is going to be about sorting that problem out.

Goodluck homeslice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ninja add; Yeah, SM are costly (thought not so much as tau ) but dont let that bother you. Dont depend on being invulnerable because in the end landraiders die, but also dont worry about taking a risk. My advice is, in any friendly game where you see something that would be an epic win, but you're not sure if the risk is worth it, just jump in headfirst. WIth SM, there's a damn good chance it will work, and when it doesen't you could be surprised by how light the 'backlash' can be.

Thank you for the reply

Just to clarify... I'm the owner of the Eldar and IG army.. I never play vs IG . But the tips you gave work against more than just IG.

Like I said.. there is no need to stick to my list.. we have more than enough models around and proxies are no problem among friends either.

You said to take 3 drop pods... how well will this work vs nids? whatever I put in the Pod.. will be dead in his next assault phase. And vs Tau.. it is nice to have some melta in the pod to kill maybe a hammerhead.. but after that.. the contents of the pod are likely to be killed entirely as well. That is the problem I'm having.
- Against tau I cant get my stuff close enough. Landraiders die turn 1 (and so do rhinos).. terminators walking are doomed at the start and are forced to walk after the raider is destoyed. And when I droppod of deepstrike the terminators, they cant assault and will take plasma, fusion and massive firepower in the tau turn (leaving not a single terminator to use for me).

Some questions that might help me tune my list and tactics:

-Are stormshields still usefull generally speaking ? Or are they obsolete now that power weapons are ap3?
- Is it worth taking more than 5 terminators in a squad? (if yes...what type and way of transport)
- How many troops should I go for in a 2000pts game (5 scouts and 2x 10 marines enough? Im always maxed out with 5 troops with my eldar.. but thats just to costly and useless with SM)
- Should I split up the 10 man tactical squad with 1 rhino? (if yes, what are the other 5 supposed to do)
- What is the best SM way to take out all the skimmers of the Tau (effectivity vs cost.)
- Should I even think about a librarian + chapter master (lysander eg) or is 2 hq not-done with SM at 2000pts?


Thank again for the help..and keep the tips coming

Koenbeest wrote:
Thank you for the reply

Just to clarify... I'm the owner of the Eldar and IG army.. I never play vs IG . But the tips you gave work against more than just IG.

Like I said.. there is no need to stick to my list.. we have more than enough models around and proxies are no problem among friends either.

You said to take 3 drop pods... how well will this work vs nids? whatever I put in the Pod.. will be dead in his next assault phase. And vs Tau.. it is nice to have some melta in the pod to kill maybe a hammerhead.. but after that.. the contents of the pod are likely to be killed entirely as well. That is the problem I'm having.
- Against tau I cant get my stuff close enough. Landraiders die turn 1 (and so do rhinos).. terminators walking are doomed at the start and are forced to walk after the raider is destoyed. And when I droppod of deepstrike the terminators, they cant assault and will take plasma, fusion and massive firepower in the tau turn (leaving not a single terminator to use for me).

Some questions that might help me tune my list and tactics:

-Are stormshields still usefull generally speaking ? Or are they obsolete now that power weapons are ap3?
- Is it worth taking more than 5 terminators in a squad? (if yes...what type and way of transport)
- How many troops should I go for in a 2000pts game (5 scouts and 2x 10 marines enough? Im always maxed out with 5 troops with my eldar.. but thats just to costly and useless with SM)
- Should I split up the 10 man tactical squad with 1 rhino? (if yes, what are the other 5 supposed to do)
- What is the best SM way to take out all the skimmers of the Tau (effectivity vs cost.)
- Should I even think about a librarian + chapter master (lysander eg) or is 2 hq not-done with SM at 2000pts?


Thank again for the help..and keep the tips coming

You answered your own question there. If you deep strike your terminators and they die to low ap shooting then yes assault terminators are definitely worth investing in, that 3++ is amazing. Personally I regularly run a librarian with Gate of Infinity and Null Zone with a bunch of TH/SS terminators, if my opponent is afraid of CC/shooting orientated I gate the terminators forward to smash some face, if the opponent has CC elements I use the terminators to 'babysit' the shooting elements of my army and make my opponent think twice before committing to assault..

Answering your questions a LR crusader is the best way to transport lots of terminators but as mentioned I usually run mine with a librarian.

I normally run 2 full tactical squads in rhinos + 5 scouts but have found I'm abit light on troops so it's probably worth investing in another troops choice.

I like the melta bunker load out (combi-melta, melta-gun, multi-melta) shoot forward into midfield and threaten tanks. One combat squad has the combi-melta + melta gun the other has the multi-melta so the short range melta can disembark to get closer while the rhino stays still to allow the MM to fire at full BS. Alternatively put the combi-melta, melta gun and MM in one combat squad and reserve the 5 grunts to take an objective later on. Another alternative is flamer/ML in which case the ML camps with one combat squad and the flamer charges forward in the rhino to burn stuff. It really depends on your loadouts and the mission but you have sooo many options, especially now you can embark both combat squads on the same rhino.

Riflemen dreadnoughts (2 twin-linked autocannons), Autocannon/Lascannon predators, Typhoon speeders are all good options for taking out tanks at range. You can also pack melta onto fast moving platforms (speeders, bikes, attack bikes) which will mince tau speeders if get close.

Finally 2 HQs is alot, it depends on your list Lysander is a confused HQ because he is an absolute beast in CC but boosts the shooting elements of your army (bolter drill). The librarian is the best bet for cheap utility with SM unless you want to build a list round/based on your HQ choices.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ps. I don't understand how you think marines are expensive/over-priced compared to eldar. Also if you want you can pm me your usual army list and I'll critique it for you.

I prefer smaller termi squads to keep cost down. I've never liked playing deathstar games.

I also like to keep my tac squads split, because you get twice the scoring. I keep all the assault stuff on one side, and the heavy stuff on the other.

UNfortunately yes, most things that come down in a drop pod are doomed, but you have to be willing to make that sacrifice. When you take two, you get one on the first turn, when you take three, you get two. The third can be empty if youd like.

As a vanilla player I no longer think 2x tacts +5 scouts is worth it for scoring troops. All my lists in 6th have included 3tacticals and a scout or 4 tacticals. But I use Vulkan so all my tacticals have a bit more bite than normal. My list at 2k lately has been Vulkan, Lysander, command plasma squad, 4 tacticals, thunderfire, 2 MM Attk bikes, 10 sternguard with 2 melta, and 4 combi melta. It's 67 models of just plain death. I use 3 drop pods max.

I used to play lists with 2-3 vindicators and TH/SS termies and a termie Libby and I'd usually just deep strike the termies or use gate of infinity on the Libby. It worked good not great.

6th is all about durability and speed IMO.

I use a gunline plus attack detachment with my Dark Angels; Tactical Marines and Devastators grab objectives while Deathwing/Ravenwing run up and make loud noises at the enemy so they don't go after my objective-grabbers. Not sure what the new Codex will do to it, but it works pretty well for me now and shouldn't be too hard to replicate with the vanilla book.

Wow! Great replies guys, thanks for all the help.

I might have played many battles and know the rules.. but you guys made me realise I had not read the faq 1.1 of the SM yet .
I didnt know I could use an empty drop pod and put both combat squads in 1 rhino.

I will start building a new list.. and will certainly come up with new questions for you guys in the process.
I've got one now actually:
- What is the best unit for the libby to join? (I think I will have at least a 10 man assault squad and a TH/SS nator squad and some tactical marines). Is it best to let him join the jump packers or better to join the terminators and give him nator armour as well?

Assault squads aren't much good, some of the reasons for which are posted here. So I'd think about removing them from most, if not all, lists that you want to be truly competitive with.

Libbies are great in termie and sternguard squads, and I've heard that they can be used with success in bike command squads... haven't even run any numbers for that though, let alone field tested, so ymmv.

The space marine codex is pretty versatile. It won't be the fastest out there, nor the most hard hitting most likely. Your units are tough, but you sometimes will suffer from a lower model count. BUT, you do have a pretty wide array of strategies to choose from in C:SM.

so what did you enjoy about eldar and IG armies? What were your favorite builds? maybe we can tailor something about these preferences?

Thank you for the reply.

- So assault squads are no good? (played some blood angels for a while and loved them there.. but I noticed the lack of weapon options in the normal SM entry).
Are vanguard any good with jumppacks ? (point is I have 10 nicely painted jump packers in my Minotaur colors..so I would like to use them (though my friends have no problem if I proxy them for normal tacticals or something else).

- Im still a bit stuck on the amount or terminators to take and HQ choice. I woud like to go 8 TH/SS and a group of 5 with 1 assault cannon. But it is pricy and im not sure if they are worth it and how to maximise their effect (I mostly play Tau or Nids.. but also face orks and grey knights).

so what did you enjoy about eldar and IG armies? What were your favorite builds? maybe we can tailor something about these preferences?

The thing about eldar I like is the fluff, cool models and that I can take whatever I like and still make it work (though it took some time to be able to do this and really get to know my units).
What I like most about Eldar are al the re-rolls (fortune, guide, doooooom). 1 failed save with a terminator really hurts.. but with eldar my unit is cheaper and I can re-roll with fortune. The re-rolls help balance out your rolls throughout a game wich minimises the failure of important actions due to bad-rolling.
With eldar I know where to send each unit.. and I know they will most likely succeed in the task. The Dire avengers as troops are great. 152 points for 30 S4 assault weapon shots (guided+doom?) will give any possible unit a very hard time. Something I dont see 10 tactical marines do (yet cost more)

The IG pack a lot of versatile fire power with their leman russes (AV 14 is cool on 3 tanks). Tau, GK, Nids and Orks all suffer greatly from the S7Ap2 and S8Ap3 blasts. And its fun to see 20 nids assault 40 guardsmand and get snapshot to death.

What I like about SM is the versatile codex (though I seem to be stuck to certain choices be be competitive).. the look of the terminators and the cool HQ choices.

EDIT:
Ok I cant find a rule that 100% clears up if im allowed to take 10 tactical marines.. and drop 5 in a pod and make 5 walk. Do all 10 marines have to stick together ?

Your not allowed to combat squad in reserve, you'd combat squad when you landed in the pod so you can't pod half a tactical like that. It's in the FAQ I believe. EDIT:I'm not so sure about this now. I'm looking into it haha. The rule in the FAQ that expressly forbade this is gone...

And it's not that assault marines are BAD in C:SM, it's just that in the fast attack slot there are "better" more cost effective options. I personally have been known to run a 5-7 man assault squad with flamer and power weapon. And vanguard are AWESOME but die easier than terminators and are more expensive I believe.

And personally about the terminators, there really isn't a "wrong" answer. It's jus how you like running them. I've seen 10 TH/SS termies footslog I've also seen them in land raiders and deep striking. It's really just your preference.

also something you should think about in every game is what and how to focus your firepower. Against just about every army you'll be outnumbered so you need to learn what should shoot what for the best effect.

Your not allowed to combat squad in reserve, you'd combat squad when you landed in the pod so you can't pod half a tactical like that. It's in the FAQ I believe. EDIT:I'm not so sure about this now. I'm looking into it haha. The rule in the FAQ that expressly forbade this is gone...

Thanks for clearing that up..its as I thought then. I gues I will just try 10 in a drop pod then

Im playing VS the Tau in a few minutes. Right now my list is:
-Vulkan (for melta re-rolls)

- 8 Assault terminators (7TH/SS)
- 5 Terminators (1 assault cannon, 1 heavy flamer)
-5 sterguard veteran (5 meltas, DROP POD)

10 tactical marines (multi melta, combi melta, flamer, RHINO)
10 tactical marines (multi melta, combi melta, flamer, RHINO)
10 tactical marines (multi melta, combi melta, meltagun, DROP POD)

1 Empty DROP POD

3 Attack Bikes (3x multi melta)

2 Thunderfire Cannon

(al drop pods have locator beacons)


I didnt know whether I would face Tau or Nids.. so the list is not tailored for Tau per se.
I will try to give a short report on the battle later.. so you guys might be able to help me point out my mistakes or what I should have done?

The poster above who said marines do everything decently, but nothing perfectly was right. Each list will require some adaptation to deal with. The concept of the marines being the "noob" army is largely a myth, as your model count constantly works against you.

Koenbeest wrote:

Your not allowed to combat squad in reserve, you'd combat squad when you landed in the pod so you can't pod half a tactical like that. It's in the FAQ I believe. EDIT:I'm not so sure about this now. I'm looking into it haha. The rule in the FAQ that expressly forbade this is gone...

Thanks for clearing that up..its as I thought then. I gues I will just try 10 in a drop pod then

Im playing VS the Tau in a few minutes. Right now my list is:
-Vulkan (for melta re-rolls)

- 8 Assault terminators (7TH/SS)
- 5 Terminators (1 assault cannon, 1 heavy flamer)
-5 sterguard veteran (5 meltas, DROP POD)

10 tactical marines (multi melta, combi melta, flamer, RHINO)
10 tactical marines (multi melta, combi melta, flamer, RHINO)
10 tactical marines (multi melta, combi melta, meltagun, DROP POD)

1 Empty DROP POD

3 Attack Bikes (3x multi melta)

2 Thunderfire Cannon

(al drop pods have locator beacons)


I didnt know whether I would face Tau or Nids.. so the list is not tailored for Tau per se.
I will try to give a short report on the battle later.. so you guys might be able to help me point out my mistakes or what I should have done?

Just a few thoughts on the list from the Tau perspective, not having any Bugs. With how I build my Tau, assault termies don't scare me much if they DS, as I will torrent them down, and the same for the shooty ones, except they get plasma. Thunderfires are decent, especially since they will be low priority targets in that list. I don't know about the attack bikes, as one broadside shot and they are toast. Drop pods are a good disruption tactic, but as advised, don't count on the units to survive, and don't count on being able to land close if your opponent knows about them.

BTW, I am sure it is unintentional, but that list is illegal, when the FAQ says you can use a drop pod without a squad inside, it means you can have a drop pod you purchased for a squad drop without the squad inside, not that you can buy a drop pod on its own.

aighty aighty aight.

Regular terminators are meh. If you do take em though, the cyclone missile launcher is the way to go. 2 frag templats, or 2 str 8 ap 3? OH! and can still fire storm bolter? yes please. Problem with vanilla terms is that they are too versatile.

here's the thing about versatility in warhammer, in every turn, you are paying for 100% of each and every unit that you have on the field. every point that you spend, could, possibly give you better returns had it been spent elsewhere. units that are versatile are either not great at any of the roles they play, or, hideously expensive, or both. That isn't necessarily the problem. The problem is that it is very hard to get the most out of a unit that is as versatile as vanilla terminators are. Their guns scream anti horde, but their fists say kill the monstrous creatures/tanks. You are paying the points for both of them, but during a turn, you might only get marginal use out of one, and even if the other is helping you out a ton, you still aren't getting full efficiency out of the unit. NOW, this is not saying that you can't drag 100% out of the unit, but it will be difficult, and good opponents will probably find ways to prevent that from happening. Basically, I see terms as being a strong unit, but one that can only really every bring about 75% of it's strength to bear at a time.

as far as assault terms go, the Tau player has it about right. Assault terms aren't scary if they cant get anywhere. Now that shrikenators don't work, you're prolly gonna wanna mech up, and put them in a land raider if you wanna run them at all. not totally sure about this... but that's how I've used em, that's how I've seen em used, and always always always, do they have a serious impact on the game.


OH. Thunderfires are stupid awesome, not for every list, but they are good for a lot of lists. If you need ranged anti-infantry, the T-fire will get the job done for you.

So..battle is over... and I won (first win vs tau with my SM),

Just a few thoughts on the list from the Tau perspective, not having any Bugs. With how I build my Tau, assault termies don't scare me much if they DS, as I will torrent them down, and the same for the shooty ones, except they get plasma. Thunderfires are decent, especially since they will be low priority targets in that list. I don't know about the attack bikes, as one broadside shot and they are toast. Drop pods are a good disruption tactic, but as advised, don't count on the units to survive, and don't count on being able to land close if your opponent knows about them.

This is what he normally does.. and I was afraid it would happen this time too. Because you play Tau as well? I will give you a brief roundup of his usual army:
2x hammerhead
2x broadside +2 drones
Forgeworld big HQ guy
3x Twinlinked missle pod suit
3x fusion + plasma suits + HQ suit
3x Plasma + missle pod suit
3x devil fish (3x 6 firewarriors inside)
2x Foreworld markerlight thingies (tetra?)
And im forgetting something (group suits I think)


So the battle.. When had 'Big guns never tire' and 'dawn of war' with 1st turn Nightfighting. He got to choose side (taking the one with most over), I won priority to go first (but gave it to him )
He set up.. with only 1 devilfish in reserve (normally he has more reserves). I put my thunderfire cannons on the table behind 2 very small ruins, and buffed the cover of them. I was able to put 1 rhino partially in cover and the other was in the open. My bikes where taking cover behind a rhino (wich blocked complete line of sight).

Lucky for me I stole initiative ..
- I Dropped the sternguard pod next to 1 hammerhead and the other drop pod next to the other hammerhead. He was spread out in a long line due to the dawn of war.. wich meant I was right in the middle of his fireline with both drop pods.
- The Rhinos both rushed up 12 and then 6. The bikes followed in the cover of 1 of the rhino, knowing next turn I would be able to ruin some suits with the Multi Meltas.
- I blew up both hammerheads with the meltas, and was able to kill the broadside group with my 2 thunderfire cannons.

- His turn 1 he tried to move away from me, but with the drop pod right in the middle, and the rhinos and bikes coming up on the sides, there was no where to go
- He killed killed all but 2 of the Drop pod marines with the Plasma-missle, 6 fire warriors and the twin linked missle suits (the drop pod gave me cover VS the plasma wich saved me)
- He Killed all 5 sternguard with his HQ+fusion+plasma suits
- His Forgeworld HQ exploded the Vulkan Rhino
- 6 Firewarriors + devilfish then killed 2 of the passengers (some very nice save rolls on my part here)

- My turn 2 I teleported the assault marines in 1" away from most of his suits (this was risky but I was hoping the bikes and Thunderfire cannons could thin down the amount of suits enough to no longer pose a real threat to my nators)
- The other 5 terminators teleported next to his HQ+Fusion+plasma group (I know this means certain death to them but as the vulkan group was now on foot and close.. I was hoping to force him to fire on the 5 nators, and not on vulkan).
- Vulkan moved up to 7" away from the fire warriors and devil fish that shot him in turn 1
- The bikes moved up and shot 3 plasma-missle suits close to the 8 assault terminators (yeej to vulkan for all 3 bikes missed but re-rolls made them all hit)
- The 2 living drop pod marines moved back to go camp on an objective
- The thunderfire cannons shot and killed the HQ+fuision+plasma suits (wich was greattt) and wounded the Forgeword HQ once. The bolters and assault cannon managed to kill the forgeworld suit after that)
- My vulkan group assaulted the firewarriors and killed them in combat

And this is more or less when we decided it was over.. there was no way he could win and we decided to just discuss the battle a bit and relaxt .

So... yes I won and didnt lose a lot of units.. but I know I made some big mistakes.
- I should never ever ever have given him first turn (what was I thinking VS Tau , thank god I managed to get it back by rolling a 6)
- I Should have used the sternguard and drop pod marines to kill the plasma and fusion suits. They are the bane of my entire army where as the railguns can only kill 1 guy a turn or kill a silly rhino.

Other than this I think it went well.. now it is time to tweak my list here and there to make it more to my playing style. (would like to have some dreadnoughts or tanks.. as good as the thunderfire cannons are.. next time they will most likey be the first target of his shooting wich they wont survive.. and I like the look of dreadnoughts )


Does anyone have some critics of the tactics of it all? Maybe have some suggestions what to change to my list and the way I operated it? Im thinking about losing the 5 terminators and put in a dreadnought in a droppod, and change something about the 10 tacticals in the pod.

EDIT: hmm.. does CML look cool indeed.. maybe ill keep the 5 nators and try to fit in a Dreadnought for the 2500pts

Good Job!
Just keep playing!

Shivan Reaper wrote:


BTW, I am sure it is unintentional, but that list is illegal, when the FAQ says you can use a drop pod without a squad inside, it means you can have a drop pod you purchased for a squad drop without the squad inside, not that you can buy a drop pod on its own.

There is absolutely nothing illegal about his list whatsoever. He has at least 2 things without transports that could have bought the third DP in his list. So as long as he paid points he's totally legal.


And to the op good job. You divided his forces and applied direct pressure to certain places and seemed like you didn't over reach trying to kill stuff. Good job.

nvm, forgot the arty could buy them.

As far as the OP, your tactics looked to be good considering the list, though to be honest, it sounds like your opponent was rolling horrible and not familiar with what your army could do. Good victory anyway though.

Well the thing about space marines is... They don't do a lot of things that seem particularly exciting for the points you are spending on them! I guess the same can be said for eldar in many ways, but it's something to keep in mind and why I'm having trouble building some ideas for you!

Assault Terminators are an exception to this however! I think Storm Talons are also something people might like SM for. Then there are cutesy things like combat tactics and special character builds but that's sorta in the background.

Combat tactics is actually pretty decent though, running away at the right time in a fight, auto grouping and then getting to fire again or take the charge can be sweet. Running back after 25% shooting casualties to mess up charge/ rapid fire distances is also pretty interesting if you are into thinking ahead. Actions on your opponent's phases are a good thing guys!

So SM have that, and I guess also lots of bolters... and 3+ armor and they are better at assaults than things that are bad in assaults. So lets call them a shooty army. There really isn't any reason to focus on assault unless you are sinking a tonne of points into terminators instead of just using them as a tool.

SM also have the weird issue of for the most part not having great troops you want to have a bajillion of (just not going to have nearly as awesome an army as your opponent) and it isn't the sort of army where you have 2 units in other slots that are incredicool and worth taking meager scoring units for in order to spam something that will table the guy or like totally make your crappy little scoring units survivable.
Tacticals cost a lot to be useful for anything... but what else are you going to buy?

Drop pod lists are kinda cool, and so are sternguard, but those are sorta specific application sort of tricks, you don't want to lean too heavily on that sort of thing with your whole force or you'll be super good at specific cases and have a lot of discomfort in others.

My advice is to have a really solid amount of scoring tacticals. Like 3 ought to be good, learn to use your combat squads well and decide how much you are willing to commit to weird deployment or want to be a more static shooting force (sadly tacticals sorta imply a certain amount of being static). Find yourself some reach shooting that you approve of spending too many points over (unless you are really into deep striking all your special shots right next to everything) and then get some assault terminators with shields and decide what you want them for and how you'll deliver them. After that I think you might like trying some allies out! Throw some space wolves in and call them deathwatch! Some knights and call them custodes! Also think about having at least one of your pretty minotaurs as a librarian, they tend to be a lot better than the other options unless you are looking for slot swaps!

Anyway, combat tactics, combat squads and dumb special characters are things to get to know for the SM codex. Half a squad with a heavy weapon sitting behind an aegis doesn't feel too bad when the other half is taking it's melta and combi melta on a cruise in a rhino. Also squads being split in their transport can be neat in that, if half of the squad ended up taking 6 or 7 wounds to wipe them out instead of just the perfect 5, it doesn't carry over to the rest of what popped out beside them.

 Lucre wrote:
all this really awesome stuff that this guy just said

Lucre's post is, in every way, spot on. Learn it, memorize it, treat it as gospel.

I am confused on why youd set an empty drop pod... i understand they are cheap but whats the point... am i missing something here?

It's so the 2 things he wants to have a pod come down on first turn(1/2 rounded up at 3 is 2.). Or he can drop an empty pod and keep the other for late if he doesn't have good targets.

Oh ok thanks man

It's no problem. It's just manipulation of rules to get the best result. It's also why you'll always hear people talking about taking odd numbers of drop pods as well. Like 1, 3, 5, or 7 this way you have 1,2,3,4 DPS coming in first turn for alpha strikes. I don't use empty drop pods myself but see the usefulness of having one if your taking something like a thunderfire.