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Hello all,

Food for thought and discussion.

After purchasing the PS3 game "Force Unleashed : 2" and watching my son beat it in about 5 hrs of gameplay, I asked myself ---

$47 for 5 hrs of videogame play?

I payed about $45 for my StormTalon. I converted it for about 3 hrs. It took me about 2 and a half hrs to paint it. I played a 4 hr game with it last weekend. 3 + 2 + 4 = 9.

And I play at home about once a week and down at the FLGS on Sundays. Two games a week = 8 hrs. 50 ( about ) weekends a year. 50 X 8 = 400.

Now granted, im not zooming arouind the table with my StormTalon for 4 continuous hrs of the game but you get the gist..

In your opinion, Overall which has more GAMEPLAY VALUE--- Electronic gaming or Talbetop gaming?

Final Fantasy X = 100 hours a file for me. A friend of mine logs a solid month of gameplay at least per Call of Duty.

It depends on personal taste and quality of the game, there is no absolute answer.

The subject is a little too broad to really make a judgement.

Some years back, I bought Space Bunnies Must Die for about $20. Played it for about half an hour, and then lost interest.

A while later, I bought Tomb Raider Legend for about the same amount. Played it through multiple times, first to finish it, then to find all of the 'hidden' stuff, and then again through individual levels to beat the time trials.

And I've lost count of the number of hours spent on Dawn of War or Battlefield.

For the tabletop, Necromunda has seen more hours play than I could add up. Titan legions? Bought it, but never actually got enthusiastic enough to play a game.

So it's not as simple as 'Electronic vs Tabletop'.

And if you're going to break it down entirely to cash outlay vs time return, I got more 'value' out of Stephen Donaldson's Thomas Covenant books than I did out of the Avengers movie... But I consider the movie ticket money much better spent.

Soooo much better spent....

if your looking for a quick fix, then console gaming is your thing. If you want something that will take a lot more time anf effort then you will like table top gaming. I perfer tabletop to video games becuase what I have belongs to me.
Its hard to explain but I can never really enjoy playing video games becuase deep down I know that I havn't really acheived anything, just moved some numbers around in a database somewhere. Bulding, painting, and playing with mins gives me the feeling of having some control over my gaming experence i.e I wont lose everything if the power goes out or the companys servers go down.

I have computer games I bought 5-6 years ago...never play them anymore

I have minitures I bought 10 or more years ago..I still break them out and use them.

I build, paint, scratchbuild, etc all the time, and it fills a need to be creative, that no electronic game has ever come close to.

so no comparison..(other that total war games, I play those like crazy )

Great feedback guys!!

keep it going!!

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
I have computer games I bought 5-6 years ago...never play them anymore

I have minitures I bought 10 or more years ago..I still break them out and use them.

On the flipside, I have computer games that I bought 10 years ago that I still play. And I have miniatures bought 10 years ago that have never come out of their box...

I build, paint, scratchbuild, etc all the time, and it fills a need to be creative, that no electronic game has ever come close to.

That doesn't really have anything to do with gameplay value, though... which is what the topic was about.

Seriously an apples to watermelon comparison.

If you want to ask which you will use longer in theory, I have a couple of metal figures I bought back in the 1980s which end up on a game table from time to time. They probably have a few dozen hours of game time logged on them...if they had a timer.

At the same time - I have played dozens of hours of 3rd person shooting team games...not to mention various cooperative online games like Everquest, Neverwinter Nights or Eve Online. There are also some old games which I still poke at either on the original equipment (let me tell you...HD TVs are not flattering to SNES game designs) or using various emulators like DOS Box to run some classic games which are still kicking about on floppy disks.

Now, if you were to simply compare single player video games versus solo aspects of tabletop gaming (after all - that will at least get you down into the same family of fruit comparisons) I probably spend an hour or two on a $50 vehicle of box of figures painting them up and getting them ready for play. Even the most basic of video games will last me a few hours time to work through the various levels - and even then I have probably skipped over a lot of the side activities within the game.

I don't really look at hours spent per dollar, I look at entertainment/enjoyment per dollar. Painting a single character model generally takes me 8-24 hours total to finish. Most games I can burn through in that amount of time or much less, however my enjoyment from painting is much higher than that of video gaming. So even if that model ran me $60, it would be a more enjoyable $60 than some random game would be(unless that game was crazy good, like Skyrim).

I've spent thousands more in the last 10 years in models than I have in video games, but the higher enjoyment of those models more than compensates for the added cost.

If you are speaking about Hours of Entertainment per Dollar spent, than my best friend is a case study that shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that electronic gaming is the way to go FOR HIM.
Since 1998, he has logged roughly 8 years of play time costing him between 9$ and 16$ a month to do it. That is split between EQ and WoW. This is not an exaggeration. A good majority of that time he was unemployed, so that's how that figure grew so large. Honestly, I highly doubt anyone can say they logged the same amount of time in table top.

Great points guys..

Some video games ive played in the past do have re-play value. Like PAIN...that game just seems to get better the more times you play it!!

And the point about not getting alot of game time out of some figs...I know what ya mean..ive got an Ork Stomper that ive only played with twice in 2 years!!

Now, as far as ON-line game play...The Apples to Watermelon comment is very applicable. ON-LINE game play is different than the "Campaign" play from those same games..The new Call of Duty provides about 15 - 20 hrs of campaign play. But you can just go on and on with the ON-LINE play.

Its not really a which one is better discussion, just more of a sharing of opinions.

I remember when I was a kid I played the hell out of "Pac-Man" on our Atari-2600..

Honestly, I prefer miniature and card games to video/online games. There's a lot to be said for playing a game face to face, and getting out and meeting new people. There's a social element to tabletop gaming that you just don't get through your xBox/PS3/Wii/PC which I really enjoy.

Last time I checked(which was over a year ago when I quit) I had logged about 4 years played on WoW out of the 7 years I was on it. A ton of unemployment or late nights when I did have work.

All in all I paid $1260 for that 4 straight years of entertainment, which is dirt cheap.

But in that same time, WFB was more enjoyable on average even though it cost me significantly more.

 WaaaaghLord wrote:
There's a social element to tabletop gaming that you just don't get through your xBox/PS3/Wii/PC which I really enjoy.

Never been to a LAN party, then?

I must have spent a thousand hours on EU3 and it cost me about 30 quid in total with expansions. The OP highlights the weak gameplay of modern action games, not computer games in general.

I've spent thousands of hours playing flash games which cost me $0.

My entertainment to $ ratio is infinite!

They're about equal for me. There are times where I can spend weeks playing games... and then there are times where I spend the equal amount of time and get the same enjoyment with tabletop gaming related activities.

I play tabletop for periods longer than I play electronic games (I can't play a computer game longer than 2 hours without getting eye issues, but tabletop I can play for 8 hours a day before I get headaches (and in the case of Infinity, muscle pain from getting down to check LoF issues all day).

 insaniak wrote:

 WaaaaghLord wrote:
There's a social element to tabletop gaming that you just don't get through your xBox/PS3/Wii/PC which I really enjoy.

Never been to a LAN party, then?

I've been to several LAN parties, and there was zero social aspect. Everyone sat around their PC screen, clicking away at the RTS game for hours, nary a peep out of anyone. After a couple of those, I was done with PC gaming altogether.

Tabletop miniatures has stuck with me longer than PC gaming, and has expanded from GW to historicals in several eras. When I last bought a PC game a couple years ago, I never actually opened it. I'll take the tabletop, which doesn't become obsolete or unable to be played on the newer OSs (speaking of PC, not console - consoles were only good for our group for the fighting games, everything else was PC).

 Cruentus wrote:

I've been to several LAN parties, and there was zero social aspect. Everyone sat around their PC screen, clicking away at the RTS game for hours, nary a peep out of anyone. After a couple of those, I was done with PC gaming altogether.

Bro that sucks. Have a LAN part with some friends, get a crate of beer in or some weed. You were clearly playing with the wrong people.

It definently is a personal perception that only you can make for yourself. Personally the fact that with regards to Xbox live games, you have to keep paying to keep playing those games. I for one look at tabletop gamesas an investment and with my Necrons I built the, slowly over time and have built my 10,000+ points up for over 10 years. If I am broke I still have a huge pool of units to choose from and can play 40k even when I can't afford to play CoD.

Well LBP 2 ive been playing for over 1000 hours.
Yes im hooked

Personally I get more value and enjoyment out of the converting/painting and gameplay of TT because I don't really play console or PC games. I think the last time I picked up a controller was for the release of Skyrim but it was for a 32 hour stretch.

All in all it doesn't come down to cash value in a hobby it comes down to how much enjoyment it brings you so if TT does that for you then great but if Video gaming is your thing stick with it.

This discussion is to personal to find an answer in my opinion. Its really all about taste and having friends or a club to play with. For most its just to easy to go sit infront of a computer or a console and play for 2-3 hours, where as i have to call buddies to come over and play on my table for about 3-4 hours or go to a game store.

I find more gratitude in going to a game store or playing on my table at home then i do playing my xbox over a mic with friends. We can have a couple beers at my place and enjoy the game together and just bs. And i realize this is common to other people playing halo or CoD but i just have more fun playing tabletop personally.

I think you should add a poll to this thread, you might get a better idea. But you also have to keep in mind that this site is a tabletop wargaming site and most of the people will probably be a little biased for tabletop. Just an idea.

 Cruentus wrote:
I've been to several LAN parties, and there was zero social aspect. Everyone sat around their PC screen, clicking away at the RTS game for hours, nary a peep out of anyone. After a couple of those, I was done with PC gaming altogether.

Yeah, that'd suck. Then again, I've walked into gaming stores like that... populated by a core group of locals, who barely acknowledge the presence of anyone not in the 'inner circle'.

That's not a flaw of the setting. It's just a flaw in the people you're doing it with.

Table top and PC/ console gaming are somewhat equal to me. I enjoy both very much. So Its somewhat hard to say what I think has more "value" in it

Depends on the games in each case. Some have a very short lifespan. But I have some computer games I've played and replayed for many years. I spent a huge amount of time on Morrowind as it was such a large expansive game, I still play Thief and Thief 2 using high quality community made levels, yes a community for these older games is still thriving.

As for miniatures, you can get good use out if them. But how many of us have models and books we've never read, painted or played with? You can't just compare computer to tabletop games, there's a huge variety in them and the amount of use each one gets is often determined by the owner as well as the actual quality if the product.

 Testify wrote:

 Cruentus wrote:

I've been to several LAN parties, and there was zero social aspect. Everyone sat around their PC screen, clicking away at the RTS game for hours, nary a peep out of anyone. After a couple of those, I was done with PC gaming altogether.

Bro that sucks. Have a LAN part with some friends, get a crate of beer in or some weed. You were clearly playing with the wrong people.

But if you have a LAN party with friends, you don't get to play, or meet, new people, which was the point I was making?

For me, I look at it this way:

When I play pc gaming I can sit there for hours, overcoming puzzles, bosses etc. At the end of the game, when I complete it, I get a "well done, game complete message" (or some complicated cutscene, but you get the jist)

When I finish painting a model, I have something to show for my efforts, something that I can reuse endlessly in one or more games...

So, although I enjoy pc gaming, I find painting and war gaming a much more productive use of my time - I have something physical and tangible instead of a high score or a list of achieved trophies.

For me it is tabletop/RPG/boardgames (I hate card games or I would include those).

I get more entertainment per dollar. A box set of miniatures I enjoy assembling and painting and I play them for years.

Plus the social aspect adds value that can't be measured that electronic gaming doesn't have (at least for me - very few times have I had a positive social outcome from electronic gaming. Chatting on Wow is not social and rarely positive lol).

Also another thing when it comes to value is I can always resell my tabletop stuff. I am a decent painter so I can usually get more than retail. (not enough to make up for the time and effort though.) You can only sell electornic games back for a fraction of the cost and that is only while the system is not obsolete.