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Hi everyone !
I'll soon be making a Black Legion list with Abaddon and so I'll use chosens as my troops, and I was wondering how do you think one should equip them ?
I kinda understand that the consensus on them is to make them a shooty unit, but what about the rest ?
Should I put on them the Mark of Nurgle (to boost their T) with the Icon of Vengeance, or give them the Icon of Slaanesh and the Icon of Excess (as to make them Fnp) ?
Any other tips would be appreciated.

Chosen cost 5ppm more than standard CSM, but get:
1) Free CCW
2) +1 A, +1 LD
3) Access to PWs, LCs, and PFs
4) Four special weapons instead of two
5) One heavy weapon of negligible use

If you're taking advantage of the first 3 points, you'll probably want to go with a larger MoS/IoE squad. Hitting on I5 is an excellent way to address the squad's low model count, and VotLW will further improve your effectiveness against loyalist marines. Between LD10 and FNP, combat resolution should be a non-issue.

If you're taking a minimum size squad and loading up with 4 special weapons and a combi-weapon on the champion, go with the Mark of Nurgle.

Word of warning: A squad of chosen kitted out for assault will be very killy, but not especially resilient. You probably want to put Abaddon in another squad, where his contribution will be more keenly felt.

Do not use them as dakka, with a base attack of 2 and the small upgrade of pistol+ccw to get it to 3 and 4 on the charge, give them rhinos, get them close, maybe some combi melta, for sure give a guy at least 1 lightning claw to shred MEQ and if equipped with MoS even better. Perhaps Power Axe in one squad for TEQ. For sure flamers though, protects against hordes and getting charged yourself.

Basically give MoS, IoE, Melta, Flamer, Plas to taste but keep it cheap and lotsa choppa all in a rhino, repeat multiple times. Maybe one squad all melta to go tank huntin'

I wouldn't discount the dakka option show quickly. Show me another unit that can get 6.67 plasma hits on the target for 155 points and I'll eat my hat.

Barrywise wrote:
Do not use them as dakka, with a base attack of 2 and the small upgrade of pistol+ccw to get it to 3 and 4 on the charge, give them rhinos, get them close, maybe some combi melta, for sure give a guy at least 1 lightning claw to shred MEQ and if equipped with MoS even better. Perhaps Power Axe in one squad for TEQ. For sure flamers though, protects against hordes and getting charged yourself.

Basically give MoS, IoE, Melta, Flamer, Plas to taste but keep it cheap and lotsa choppa all in a rhino, repeat multiple times. Maybe one squad all melta to go tank huntin'

They come standard with boltgun, bolt pistol and ccw, no cost to upgrade them to it

any of the following are good:
8 man MoN 5 plasma
7 man MoN 5 melta
6 man MoN 5 flamers
10 man MoS VotLW IoE 5 meltas/flamers


Automatically Appended Next Post:
chosen are supposed to be shooty, having the 3 attacks per base though means that they can use their combat to finish enemies and they are a shooty unit that is likely to be shot, not taken out in combat.

because of this you need a mark that will make them last longer, not one that will make them more deadly in combat. MoK is out, MoS and MoT are out, unless you want IoE. Nurgle is where its at.

It is best that you just forget that chosen can take power weapons, just give them shooty weapons. 5 plasma, 5 melta, or 5 flamers. I wouldnt give the champ a combi weapon, as he is basically just a wound to be sacrificed. Also 5 plasma/melta guns is usually enough in one round of shooting.

 Exergy wrote:
I wouldnt give the champ a combi weapon, as he is basically just a wound to be sacrificed. Also 5 plasma/melta guns is usually enough in one round of shooting.

What's wrong with sacrificing him after he's fired off his combi-weapon?

Okay, so epic noob question but what is VotLW?

Exalbaru wrote:
Okay, so epic noob question but what is VotLW?

Veteran of the Long War. +1 LD, Hatred: Space Marines.

I have Chosen from the 2x Dark Vengeance Boxes. Since they pretty much already come equipped, are they worth using in battle. I guess I can just proxy what they don't current have and see how it goes.

 whigwam wrote:

Exalbaru wrote:
Okay, so epic noob question but what is VotLW?

Veteran of the Long War. +1 LD, Hatred: Space Marines.

What does hatred do? if its legit, that would be awesome cause I'm always fighting blood angels and space wolves.

It is kind of hard to decide how to use chosen within a CSM list, they can be oriented towards gunfights, assault or both. They have the stats and access to weapons to allow them to be used in both situations.

As was said above, the ideal assault composition for a Chosen unit is MoS, IoE, and cc weapons to taste. Where it gets complicated is in terms of HQ choice - you want these guys to be close in, but you don't necessarily want to get them a Rhino. You may want to consider whether or not to include Assault Chosen based on how long it will get them into cc. Abaddon lets Chosen become scoring, but Huron and Ahriman allow you to infiltrate the unit (you have a 1 in 6 chance of getting infiltrate with Abaddon).

It also has an impact on decisions about other troops to bring. Obviously, if you had a land raider to drive these guys up the field, you are going to be in good shape versus most armies. Otherwise, cultists are a great meat shield for them, and so are terminators (who can start dropping in and give you a round or two where attention is focused solely on them).

For shooty Chosen, the choices are not as complicated. I personally don't see too many reasons to go with anything other than 5 plasma guns with this squad, they are good against just about anything. One player I know brings 5 melta guns instead to deal with mech, but that's only one squad in his army. Again, being able to infiltrate these guys is nice but not essential, the 24 inch range with the plasma guns gives them a big space on the board for shooting things up.

Corollax wrote:

 Exergy wrote:
I wouldnt give the champ a combi weapon, as he is basically just a wound to be sacrificed. Also 5 plasma/melta guns is usually enough in one round of shooting.

What's wrong with sacrificing him after he's fired off his combi-weapon?

some weapons in the game outrange combi weapons, in fact, most do.

Thank you all

Why oh why do we not get drop pods!?!?!

Zanderchief wrote:
Why oh why do we not get drop pods!?!?!

because GW hates chaos

 Exergy wrote:

Zanderchief wrote:
Why oh why do we not get drop pods!?!?!

because GW hates chaos

hahaha. it would be too easy for us wouldnt it.

The DV chosen are already set up for assault sadly. Not a fan of that quick snap together feature.

Exalbaru wrote:

 whigwam wrote:

Exalbaru wrote:
Okay, so epic noob question but what is VotLW?

Veteran of the Long War. +1 LD, Hatred: Space Marines.

What does hatred do? if its legit, that would be awesome cause I'm always fighting blood angels and space wolves.

Hatred lets you reroll all missed To Hit rolls during the first round of CC. Pretty handy if you're loading out your Chosen for an assault role.

Chaos Space Marines forgot how to operate drop pods so concentrated on making Dinosaur robots

 Exergy wrote:

Zanderchief wrote:
Why oh why do we not get drop pods!?!?!

because GW hates chaos

Pretty much. We don't get Razorbacks, Drop Pods, a flying transport, or much of anything. The new codex is so very underwhelming. You'd think they'd want the main bad guy of the franchise to at least have a decent codex. that being said, I would not be surprised at all if they release more models via White Dwarf in the coming months.

abby and infiltrate dont mix well, abby has to be your warlord and he all rdy has a kick ass warlord trait plasma dont overheat when shooting when fightin have the codexs seem good

Barrywise wrote:
Do not use them as dakka, with a base attack of 2 and the small upgrade of pistol+ccw to get it to 3 and 4 on the charge, give them rhinos, get them close, maybe some combi melta, for sure give a guy at least 1 lightning claw to shred MEQ and if equipped with MoS even better. Perhaps Power Axe in one squad for TEQ. For sure flamers though, protects against hordes and getting charged yourself.

Basically give MoS, IoE, Melta, Flamer, Plas to taste but keep it cheap and lotsa choppa all in a rhino, repeat multiple times. Maybe one squad all melta to go tank huntin'

Just ignore this and you'll know what to do.

The fact of the matter is that a Chosen with a Power Weapon costs MORE than a Chaos Terminator, which gets a 2+ save, 5+ invul, and a power weapon.

Actually the real fact of the matter is just that Chosen are a terrible use of points. So yeah, you get a ton of special weapons. If you give them 4 Plasma guns then yes they are useful. But you can also get Chaos Terminators with combi-plasmas for only a few points more, and they can deepstrike so you will get a better use out of them.

Then again pretty much everything in the Chaos codex is overcosted so it comes down to what flavor of overcosted you want.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

The fact of the matter is that a Chosen with a Power Weapon costs MORE than a Chaos Terminator, which gets a 2+ save, 5+ invul, and a power weapon.
Actually the real fact of the matter is just that Chosen are a terrible use of points. So yeah, you get a ton of special weapons. If you give them 4 Plasma guns then yes they are useful. But you can also get Chaos Terminators with combi-plasmas for only a few points more, and they can deepstrike so you will get a better use out of them.
Then again pretty much everything in the Chaos codex is overcosted so it comes down to what flavor of overcosted you want.

You can give them 5 special weapons and those special weapons can be fired more than once. Combi weapons only get one shot. Plasmaguns are expensive, but you are likely to want to shoot them repeatedly. Also chosen can fit in a rhino, run up and shoot while terminators have to deep strike, meaning they could stay in reserve. 5 flamers makes for a nasty unit, and at only 23 points a model they arent that expensive. 5 flame templates and then a charge of 6 marines with 24 attacks is nasty, especially with PE.

Zanderchief wrote:
Chaos Space Marines forgot how to operate drop pods so concentrated on making Dinosaur robots

One of the best things I've read all day.

 Exergy wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

The fact of the matter is that a Chosen with a Power Weapon costs MORE than a Chaos Terminator, which gets a 2+ save, 5+ invul, and a power weapon.
Actually the real fact of the matter is just that Chosen are a terrible use of points. So yeah, you get a ton of special weapons. If you give them 4 Plasma guns then yes they are useful. But you can also get Chaos Terminators with combi-plasmas for only a few points more, and they can deepstrike so you will get a better use out of them.
Then again pretty much everything in the Chaos codex is overcosted so it comes down to what flavor of overcosted you want.

You can give them 5 special weapons and those special weapons can be fired more than once. Combi weapons only get one shot. Plasmaguns are expensive, but you are likely to want to shoot them repeatedly. Also chosen can fit in a rhino, run up and shoot while terminators have to deep strike, meaning they could stay in reserve. 5 flamers makes for a nasty unit, and at only 23 points a model they arent that expensive. 5 flame templates and then a charge of 6 marines with 24 attacks is nasty, especially with PE.

Combi weapons only get one shot but for Terminators it's more likely that it will be a more precise shot. Chosen -can- fit in a Rhino, but if you are using reserve as a negative argument, we ALL know that the Rhino with a unit toting 5 plasma guns is going to get wrecked first. 5 flamers is a nasty unit but you have to get so up close that I honestly doubt its usefulness.

Also Terminators w/combi weapons are more effective because then you get the first shot and your opponent can only react after they have shot their 4 combi-meltas and slagged the land raider/annihilated a unit of Terminators

Furthermore, the only way to reliably get Preferred Enemy is to take Abaddon which is an additional 265 points.

If you are only planning on getting one rapid fire round from any given squad after they've jumped out of the rhino, you could always save points on plasma by only running 2 actual plasma guns (top hatch) and the other 4 as combi weapons.

MoK seems really interesting.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

Furthermore, the only way to reliably get Preferred Enemy is to take Abaddon which is an additional 265 points.

Which, the OP is doing.

Actually, there is another thing Chosen is good for. They can bring one heavy weapon in a team of 5. That makes the overall points spent to get a heavy weapon cheaper compared to what you have to spend to get a heavy weapon in a normal CSM squad. Plus, in a normal CSM squad, you can only take 1 special and 1 heavy.special weapon. Chosen can take up to 5.

So, consider a 5 man chosen squad with 3 flamers and 1 missile launcher, and veterans of the long war. This squad only adds up to 140 points. A normal CSM squad can only get 1 missile launcher and 1 flamer, and that would make such a squad (with VOTLW), cost 170 points. Now, its true that you have more bodies, but fire powerwise and even close assualt wise, I don't think 5 chosen with 3 flamers is any less bad than 10 normal CSM with 1 flamer. You may argue that the 10 man squad can shoot all their bolters at long range. But if the squad is in a Rhino, its irrelevant if you have 5 guys or 10 guys since only 2 men can shoot out. And again, if the 5 guys are in a Rhino, then until the Rhino is destroyed, the number of wounds the squad has is also kinda irrelevant.

So, if you follow this line of reasoning and put 5 chosen, 1 heavy weapon, 3 flamers into a Rhino, and you then take Abaddon to make this squad a scoring troop choice, then you now have a 5 man squad that is flexible, can hang back in the Rhino and shoot a heavy weapon each turn, can take objectives, is no slouch in close assault (and in defense CC as well), and the whole team including the Rhino only cost 175 points. 1050 points gets you a hefty 6 of these flexible squads so that you have ample options for shooting, and for objective capture and close assault.

If you wanted to replicate this by taking six 10 men normal CSM squads with a flamer and a missile launcher, it would definitely cost a lot more. (It would cost 1230 points, which is 210 points more expensive).

There is literally no other way of getting a heavy weapon with less points spent within your troop choice slot. So, if you want to go heavy shooty, this is an option to consider. 6 additional missile launchers before you even consider adding fast attack, elite and heavy support options is not a small thing. And its not like the unit can only shoot its one missile launcher every turn and do nothing. It can close assult just fine (because hitting something with 3 flamers before assulting it 'with chosen who have 3 base attacks is no joke), and it can capture objectives. And its cheap, cheaper than a full 10 man normal CSM squad, so even if it dies, you got 5 other such similar squads, and they have to get through 6 Rhinos first. I know mech is not as popular now, but that is because people aren't using Armor saturation enough.

You need a lot of shooting to get through 6 Rhinos. And its not like CSM doesn't have the capability to shoot back either. heavy support, fast attack and elites all have shooty options too.

In fact, even if you don't want to use Abaddon to make Chosen scoring, within the elite slot, they are one of the cheapest way to get a heavy weapon. Consider, a minimal 5 man termi squad will cost 183 points to get all the basics and 1 reaper cannon. (This compares to the 140 points chosen squad with 1 missile launcher). A Hellbrute can be as shooty, or even more so, but its a vehicle, so if you want to go with minimal vehicles, yet shooty, then the next cheapest alternative is Chosen.

So, chosen have their place, and I am keen to one day try out a list that includes Abaddon, 6 of these triple flamer, 1 missile launcher squad in Rhinos just to see how it goes.

The one thing I haven't yet figure out yet, is how to find a use for CC chosen, because all of the DV models feature CC weapons. They are simply... not efficient in close combat from a points cost perspective. Putting 3 flamers on such a squad is simply much more efficient point wise in making it effective as a close assult force as opposed to spending an obscene amount of points trying to equip chosen with various power weapons and such.

Just buy a drop pod and use the forgeworld rules for Dreadclaw assault pods.


Of course, they're more expensive than drop pods and worse (no drop pod assault, can still mishap but reroll the results) in almost every way (you can get back in them and fly away, and they aren't open-topped. No weapons either though).

But hey it's an option.

do chosen have fearless?