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I am sure that there is going to be A LOT of naysaying, but I have found that a squad of Ratlings manning a Quad Gun on the ADL is effective. The look on someones face when their MC get's murdered by a Ratling is pretty priceless as well.

I would like to see this kept friendly, but I would like to see the experienced Guard players on here give their thought's on Ratlings. Even if you DESPISE them, branch out and let me know how you think you could effectively use them if you had to.

I have found with many units in the IG Codex that you can take input all day from other people, but every unit has a place in someones Army. It all comes down to play style and what works for you. So let's here it folks!

Pros: Ratlings can make a 'cheap' distraction with infiltrating somewhere.

Cons: Any shooting at them and they will run away or die horribly.

Problem with Ratlings on a Quad Gun behind an ADL is that Ratling models can't see over the ADL, so can't fire at anything on the other side of it.

I do not despise them, and I would use them in freindly games had I the models. I do not own any nor will buy any unless they come as a package deal.

That said.

Pros:
Rending, pinning, percise, bs 4 shots for 10 points a model.
Free +1 cover saves( I think?)

Cons: everything else about the unit. Seriously EVERYTHING.
Stat line
LD
Taking up an elite slot( after marbo not much uber in IG elites, although I would agrue both storm troopers and ogryn would rate above ratlings).
Effects easily duplicated better with other units.(mortars pin and snipe MUCH better at a lower cost and do not require LOS and They SCORE!)

Sadly 10 sniper shots do very little against most armys. If rending was a 6 on hit or there was a way that precise shots could auto rend, then they would just be ok, but as they are you need to roll a butt load of 6s to have them do anything cool.

So what would you replace them with? Conscripts? Need something to replace them. Gotta man that Quad gun. I run a Mech/Air Cav list and my troop slots are full.

ADL has Skyfire and Interceptor. Hydra doesn't have that flex.

You have 6 troops already?

Do you have two HQs? A bare CCS could do well on a Quad.

Ya, 6 Chimera's with Vet's.

A platoon command squad is only 30 points and contains a BS4 model. Perfect for quad gun purposes. You can even throw in a HWS, if you're so inclined.

I didn't even think about that! Would I have to cut down my Vet Squads, or do I just roll a squad under the PCS? I know I could look in the Codex to find out, but I am deployed to Afghanistan at the moment and that isn't an option.

Pros: Infiltrate, Stealth, BS4, Snipers

Cons: Ld6 and quite squishy (not that Guard are known for their rigidity, but Ratlings are squishy deluxe).

I've run them in the past (under old sniper rules), they were much more effective then. If you do have a free Elites slot, run them a few times and see if they truly help you out in your list. I run grunt Guard Snipers once and a while and they seem to affect the way my opponents move their troops and Monstrous Creatures a little bit.

Good luck in your list building!

 Cappizzano wrote:
I didn't even think about that! Would I have to cut down my Vet Squads, or do I just roll a squad under the PCS? I know I could look in the Codex to find out, but I am deployed to Afghanistan at the moment and that isn't an option.

You'll have to make a troops spot open for it.

You will also have to take at least 2 inf squads with the PCS. But it opens the door wide open for autocannon teams, (for light mech and flyers/MCs) or mortars. BTW for some reason I'm totally a mortar Fanboi the last few weeks, I love them!

I'm afraid I can't give you many details, since that falls under GW's intellectual property, but I should at least be able to outline the special oddities of the IG platoon unit.

Unlike other troop selections in the Imperial Guard, Platoons are an FOC selection that actually lets you purchase several units in a single slot. A platoon includes:
* 1 Platoon Command Squad: 1 commander, 4 guardsmen.
* 2-5 Infantry Platoons: 1 sarge, 9 guardsmen.
* And a few other optional selections such as Heavy Weapons Squads and Special Weapons Squads.

The infantry platoons can be combined into a single squad at deployment, a process informally referred to as "blobbing." Among other things, this as many as 50 units benefit from orders -- and a 50-man FRFSRF is a lightshow worth seeing.

I'm sorry I can't be any more specific. A typical infantry platoon is going to run something on the order of 300 points once special weapons and supporting characters are considered. The PCS will make up at least 30 points of that, and is probably the most flexible unit in the entire codex -- and arguably, the game as a whole.

a lord commie would be quiet good on a quad gun

Corollax wrote:
A platoon command squad is only 30 points and contains a BS4 model. Perfect for quad gun purposes. You can even throw in a HWS, if you're so inclined.

Platoon Command Squads don't contain anyone with BS4...

 BryllCream wrote:

Corollax wrote:
A platoon command squad is only 30 points and contains a BS4 model. Perfect for quad gun purposes. You can even throw in a HWS, if you're so inclined.

Platoon Command Squads don't contain anyone with BS4...

You might want to take a second look (at the commander).

Either way there are ways around it. I am just a tread head so I am trying to field as many tanks as possible.

Pros: HOBBITSES! IN SPESS!

Cons: Everything else.

If they could see over an aegis they'd be pretty awesome, but they can't, so unless you're shooting at fliers, they won't be able to even see their target most of the time (same reason I find it baffling that people are using grots on their aegis quadcannons)

However, in your situation, you really don't have many other options. Maybe get a techpriest, so he can at least repair things, bring extra guns, and even see over the wall he's having to shoot over? You really don't have any other options that wouldn't require you to drastically change your list.

If all youre using them for is manning the quad gun, a minimum rattling squad is the cheapest you'll get. Techpriest and some servitors might be good as well, even though theyre bs3. Seems sorta counter-intuitive though.

For less cost, why not just use a hydra or two if youre such a tread head? They cant shoot ground targets, but theyre still decent units.

 McGibs wrote:
If all youre using them for is manning the quad gun, a minimum rattling squad is the cheapest you'll get. Techpriest and some servitors might be good as well, even though theyre bs3. Seems sorta counter-intuitive though.

For less cost, why not just use a hydra or two if youre such a tread head? They cant shoot ground targets, but theyre still decent units.

Hydras don't give your entire mech army a +4 cover save or have interceptor, the two reasons why you take an aegis/quadcannon.

Found this over on Heresy. What are your thoughts?

There appear to be two schools of thought on the Imperial Guard's only "pure" Sniper unit.

Some claim they are useless little twits best left at home.

Some claim they never leave home without them.

I belong to the latter category.

And here's why-

Much is made by their detractors of the Ratlings pathetic Toughness, their low Leadership, their lack of any options beyond what they come with.

All of these concerns are perfectly valid.

But the advantages far outweigh the drawbacks.

For starters, the obvious- They ALL pack Snip[er Rifles, and their Ballistic Skill is excellent for their cost.... leading to my second bit of gleeful cackling-

Ratlings are CHEAP, man for man. For a dedicated sniper unit, they're the least expensive the Guard can boast- while rocking a better BS in the bargain. Yes, they fall apart in assaults- but that's not why you brought a unit with up to ten sniper rifles, is it?

Moving on, there's the bonus they can claim from cover. Given the mania for cover saves that Fifth Edition brought in, I'm surprised more don't pay attention to this-Ratlings AUTOMATICALLY improve their cover saves without any more points being spent on them.

Now, their leadership is indeed rather pathetic- but they can still stick around a lot longer than might be expected.... if they somehow get shot full of holes, Ratlings can make the call to be PINNED, rather than running away. Given their battlefield role, this is HUGE.

And finally, the kicker...

Infiltrate.

So many people misuse infiltrate, and think it's only a way to get close to the enemy.

Not so.

Infiltrate lets you pick the best firing position on the table for your Snipers more often than not.... and all but insures that your unit will be in the cover they need to use to be effective.

Yes, Dawn of War deployment screws Ratlings horribly.... but in almost any other circumstances, a better and more economical use of an Elite slot is hard for me to imagine.

In summation- Bring 'em, park 'em in cover, and don;t cry if they get wiped out... they may still work out as the cheapest single unit in your army.... and they pack a hell of a punch.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Pros: HOBBITSES! IN SPESS!

Yes

 Cappizzano wrote:
if they somehow get shot full of holes, Ratlings can make the call to be PINNED, rather than running away. Given their battlefield role, this is HUGE.

This is not true. They used to have an ability like that in the old IG codex, but in the current one they do not.


Anyway:

PRO:
*If you're playing in one of those weird "take a bad list and give it to your opponent" events you can take lots of ratlings and win.

CON:
*Everything else.

Ratlings are garbage. An equal point value in other units will always do better, so don't waste your points.

Corollax wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:

Corollax wrote:
A platoon command squad is only 30 points and contains a BS4 model. Perfect for quad gun purposes. You can even throw in a HWS, if you're so inclined.

Platoon Command Squads don't contain anyone with BS4...

You might want to take a second look (at the commander).

Mea Culpa. guess that's a result of him being the only guy in the squad who can't take a special weapon so I've never had to look up his BS!

So what would your suggestion be for another elite choice? I am not talking about building a point specific list. I am building my Army in general, and the only thing I am stuck on is this elite choice.

 Cappizzano wrote:
So what would you replace them with? Conscripts? Need something to replace them. Gotta man that Quad gun. I run a Mech/Air Cav list and my troop slots are full.

ADL has Skyfire and Interceptor. Hydra doesn't have that flex.

A penal. Legion squad ans the quad gun/ADL very well. 80 points for a ten man squad, stubborn, who cares about the rules they can get. A stand alone troop choice for the cheap.

 martin74 wrote:
A penal. Legion squad ans the quad gun/ADL very well. 80 points for a ten man squad, stubborn, who cares about the rules they can get. A stand alone troop choice for the cheap.

My concern is, is that worth the loss of a whole Chimera and it's veteran Squad just to man the Quad Gun?

 Cappizzano wrote:

 martin74 wrote:
A penal. Legion squad ans the quad gun/ADL very well. 80 points for a ten man squad, stubborn, who cares about the rules they can get. A stand alone troop choice for the cheap.

My concern is, is that worth the loss of a whole Chimera and it's veteran Squad just to man the Quad Gun?

Yeah that's the problem. With maxed out troops and HQ's, there's not a lot of choices.

Have you considered maybe a pysker battle squad or something? I think they're only BS 3 though.

Honestly for what you're needing, all your choices besides ratlings or stormtroopers are going to be BS 3. Ratlings can't really see over the wall though, and stormtroopers are really expensive to just be standing there with a quadcannon.

I'm not sure what to tell you to be honest.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 Cappizzano wrote:

 martin74 wrote:
A penal. Legion squad ans the quad gun/ADL very well. 80 points for a ten man squad, stubborn, who cares about the rules they can get. A stand alone troop choice for the cheap.

My concern is, is that worth the loss of a whole Chimera and it's veteran Squad just to man the Quad Gun?

Yeah that's the problem. With maxed out troops and HQ's, there's not a lot of choices.

Have you considered maybe a pysker battle squad or something? I think they're only BS 3 though.

Honestly for what you're needing, all your choices besides ratlings or stormtroopers are going to be BS 3. Ratlings can't really see over the wall though, and stormtroopers are really expensive to just be standing there with a quadcannon.

I'm not sure what to tell you to be honest.

I could be ok with using an HQ choice to man it. Maybe a Lord Commissar, or leave a CCS sitting back there behind the wall? I don't run blob so I am not really getting anything from orders.

About 2 months ago I started reading a lot of hate for the little guys, so I tried running a lot of them (30).
I've been taking them every game since. They let me strip the good weapons out of my opponents squads pretty effectively.
On average, you're doing .83 wounds with precision. With 3 full squads, that's sniping 5 models in 2 turns of shooting.
They also can knock off a hull point or two of AV10/11 in a pinch.

Toughness 2 and leadership 6 is a problem.
But stealth, infiltrate and 36" range helps make up for that. It doesn't matter what my toughness is if I'm out of range.
With 30 snipers, I'd guess I'm pinning 1 or 2 times a game. It isn't great, but shouldn't be totally ignored either.

Finally, they really are pretty cheap, and can be annoying enough to take some of the pressure off of the rest of your army.
If I had 30 more, I'd run 60 of those little bastards at 2K and up.

-Matt