Most appropriate Army for a Kislev theme

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**Rob451**

I've been thinking about building a Kislev themed army for 8th edition and was looking for ideas on the most appropriate army to use.

There are two books that immediately spring to mind: Empire and Warriors of Chaos and of those two my own idea of a Kislevite force most closely matches WoC.

A Kislev army is famous for highly mobile horse archers, winged lancers and Tzars riding bears. Ranks of burly and lightly armoured men make up the bulk of the force.

Taking from WoC would mean avoiding anything too Chaos related so no marks on any units except possibly the mark of Khorne to make some kind of Berserker unit. Slaanesh is a possibility based on the more elite units being so used to fighting the horrors of Chaos that nothing phases them anymore.

Marauders are just men so are ideal for infantry blocks. Marauder horsemen can fill the role of horse archers with throwing spears even though it's a bit of a reach given the significantly reduced range of Spears vs Bows.

Winged Lancers could be represented by Chaos Knights making a point to switch those lovely blades for lances (paying points to gimp a unit for thematic purposes!)

Bear mounts fit really well with the profile for Demonic Mounts for heroes.

Warhounds could use the Fenrisian wolves from 40k to represent packs of hunting dogs or something.

From a magic point of view Lore of Heavens seems to fit and is a valid choice for a Sorcerer.

I'm thinking yes to Ogres (they get everywhere) but no to Trolls.

I can't think of a fluffy reason to take Chaos Warriors and I'd certainly be against taking them as the majority of the force. Kislevites are still humans so alot of the statlines for the Heroes and Lords are just too good imo which is why I also think the Empire book might work better. Alternatively I limit myself to Exalted heroes.

What do you think? Is there a better book to base a Kislev themed force on?

**Magos Explorator**

I'd go Empire; as you note, Kislevites are just regular humans, after all, and their units appeared in older Empire army books.

**jonolikespie**

I'd generally agree empire is better since it is an army of 'proper' humans. Pistoliers can make horse archers just as well as marauder can, the infantry makes much more sense, there are proper lance units in there (that are actually better with their lances) and bears cavalry = demigryphs.

**Blackhoof**

and for models, i would look into various historical ranges for russian/eastern european models from the middle ages

from what i can tell, Kislevites are pretty much medieval russians

**Trondheim**

Blackhoof wrote:
and for models, i would look into various historical ranges for russian/eastern european models from the middle ages

from what i can tell, Kislevites are pretty much medieval russians

Agreed, I would look at Warlord games in particular to see if they have the correct medival Russian troops you could use as Kislevites

**baxter123**

I would think that from the descriptions in the Gotrek and Felix series that they usually found riding calvary so from that I would assume that you would base them off it is Brets, as well as they have women as well as men in their ranks and that they have fairly few war machines and prefer older techniques. As for models such as Horse Archers, try the Elves (High, Wood) and convert the heads and make it suited to your liking.

**Mr Mugguffins**

Rob451 wrote:
I've been thinking about building a Kislev themed army for 8th edition and was looking for ideas on the most appropriate army to use.

There are two books that immediately spring to mind: Empire and Warriors of Chaos and of those two my own idea of a Kislevite force most closely matches WoC.

A Kislev army is famous for highly mobile horse archers, winged lancers and Tzars riding bears. Ranks of burly and lightly armoured men make up the bulk of the force.

Taking from WoC would mean avoiding anything too Chaos related so no marks on any units except possibly the mark of Khorne to make some kind of Berserker unit. Slaanesh is a possibility based on the more elite units being so used to fighting the horrors of Chaos that nothing phases them anymore.

Marauders are just men so are ideal for infantry blocks. Marauder horsemen can fill the role of horse archers with throwing spears even though it's a bit of a reach given the significantly reduced range of Spears vs Bows.

Winged Lancers could be represented by Chaos Knights making a point to switch those lovely blades for lances (paying points to gimp a unit for thematic purposes!)

Bear mounts fit really well with the profile for Demonic Mounts for heroes.

Warhounds could use the Fenrisian wolves from 40k to represent packs of hunting dogs or something.

From a magic point of view Lore of Heavens seems to fit and is a valid choice for a Sorcerer.

I'm thinking yes to Ogres (they get everywhere) but no to Trolls.

I can't think of a fluffy reason to take Chaos Warriors and I'd certainly be against taking them as the majority of the force. Kislevites are still humans so alot of the statlines for the Heroes and Lords are just too good imo which is why I also think the Empire book might work better. Alternatively I limit myself to Exalted heroes.

What do you think? Is there a better book to base a Kislev themed force on?

Kislev is the best Kislev themed army. Seriously, they have an army book and everything.

They came in during the storm of chaos campaign in 6th edition. They are designed to be used ass an allied contingent to the empire. A quick ebay search for the book would be a good idea, as it's contains the army list, the special chars and some p[painting/modelling tips and the like.

**Mr. S Baldrick**

I would say either high elves or brets. Both have light cav and horse archers which is what Kislev is mostly about. Empire lacks the horse archers and their knights are too heavy for kislev. Brets have human stats lighter cav and the archers, the infantry is crap though. High elves you have the light cav, horse archers and you can split your Kossar models between archers and white lions to give some solid infantry. You can also explain the “always strike first” and higher initiative due to the fact that Kilevites hardly ever fight outside their own county so you can say it is the cold weather that gives them the advantage. Chaos does not really fit. Chaos knights have way too much armour for kislev. Marauders would make decent Kossars w/great weapons but the base sizes will be all off.

If you opponent is OK with using the old Kislev rules they are not bad. Just remember they don’t work well as a standalone army, they have no rare slots and no magic users besides the Ice Queen. Also if you take the Ice Queen you can’t take the Tzar, so you lack a combat lord. They were intended to be an ally. If you do use them as an ally it works best with empire.

**thedarkavenger**

I'd say Empire, on account of Kislev being close allies and having guns.

**Mr. S Baldrick**

thedarkavenger wrote:
I'd say Empire, on account of Kislev being close allies and having guns.

The problem there is that Kislev only has medium and light cave. Empire has heavy cav, so unless you change the horses winged lancers just don't really fit for Empire knights. Empire also doesn't have a slot for horse archers. Some people say to use them as pistoliers, but the two weapons are very different.

**thedarkavenger**

Horse archers can be represented by outriders. And I know someone who is running Kislevite Empire with no trouble at all.

**Fifty**

The only thing that makes sense to me is Bretonnia, but maybe try to get hold of the old army book and see how they compare? Perhaps you could ally with something else to fill the holes in your force, but still paint the allies as Kislevites?

**ExNoctemNacimur**

The old army book (I have it) is pretty poor for a stand alone army, as someone else said above.

Really, I'd try Empire or High Elves.

**unmercifulconker**

I was thinking with Empire, although I know little of them, bear cavalry seems appropriate as the demigryph units? They seem large and strong. Just my 2 cents

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well then again, bear cavalry could also be count as skullcrushers of khorne as no doubt woul a big giant bear cause bloody mayhem

**Rob451**

Loads of great responses and ideas here so thanks guys you've given me a lot to think about!

Of the armies mentioned I think brettonians are a better fit than empire, they are cavalry focused, have horse archers and their heavy cavalry isn't quite as heavy as the empires (winged lancers traditionally only have a 3+ save). Add to this that that they have wizards that can take lore of heavens and they are a great fit.

The downside to both empire and brettonians is they have no monstrous mounts that can't fly and are a good fit for war bears.

The other issue I have is trying to find a good source of appropriate wings for building big regiments of lancers. eBay sometimes has a few of the old metal models but never in the quantities that I desire. I was considering the wings from elder swooping hawks as a possibility and I've seen a few companies have polish lancers that would fit but I want the army to be usable in gw tournaments so need at least 50% gw parts.

**brentyboi**

If your going for light - medium cavalry, why not try OnG, Gobbos on the whole have simmilar stats to humans and im sure a human based army using their rules could be quite diverse.

**btr75**

Going off memory, but I think Russian/Ukrainian Cossacks and Polish/Lithuanian Hussars would be the closest equivilants as far as models. Empire would seem the right fit now.

**Necroshea**

Yeah I'm with the other guys in that I think brets are more closely like Kislev than empire, especially with there troops being almost all on horseback all the time.

**ScarletPheonix**

Kislev old models are still available,so if you could use them as Empire State troops that might work well

**krazynadechukr**

Rob451,

I have been working on the same idea. I am using both empire & chaos codexes. I will play test both. I have 10 winged lancers on bears, on 50x75mm bases. That is the demigryph & skullcrushers base size! I am going mounted on everything, be it horses or bears. A great winged lancer proxy is the pike and shotte box of 8 I got off ebay for $38 (same size as gw), 8 gw lancers will run you $85+ easy. Best bears are here - http://www.northstarfigures.com/e ....some for just £3 each! Do searches on ebay or internet like "28mm medieval russian" and you will find several makers....

**ExNoctemNacimur**

Those are some pretty models.

**Grey Templar**

I saw a really nice Kislev Brettonia army this weekend at the BAO. Go for that.

**Huey11**

I don't have the book with me but...
Is "Dogs of War" still legal?
Lancer cavalry, barded and not,
Horse archers,
Berserkers,
Ogres etc etc

H

**Grey Templar**

No, they even errata'd out all the Dogs of War that were in the different army books.

**kenshin620**

krazynadechukr wrote:
Do searches on ebay or internet like "28mm medieval russian" and you will find several makers....

Ironic because the winged hussars are polish