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Ok I move 12 inches and deploy my strike squad via shadow of the skies. I roll the scatter dice and it lands my unit onto my stormravens base.... What happens? Are bases ignored since its a flyer and friendly? Or is the unit dead?

What does the BRB say about fliers and their bases?

Page 80 says its ignored except when being assaulted or disembarking/embarking and is used for access point reference. I looked at both paragraphs with measuring and the interaction with other models. My friend and I wanna verify we played it right.

We let them scatter onto the base.

Looked it up for you, page 80, "Flyers and other models", appears that friendly models can be in the base without a conflict.

However, page 36, "deep strike mishaps" lists "on top of a friendly model" as a trigger for a mishap.

To me, RAW, page 80 gives you an exception to page 36. But I can't say that its is ironclad. I would however, take issue with anyone saying that RAW is clear that you must mishap, and that simply is not true. The only strong counter I see is that page 80 is referring to the flyer and what happens on its movement and page 36 is referring to the scattering model, so the special exception may not apply (good counter, but I'd disagree).

EDIT: you ninja'd me, we'll see what others say, but I see RAW agreeing with you

You can not move onto friendly models bases as the models bases are not terrain.

Moving through terrain section tells us that models move through terrain. (90)

Where are the rules for a model's movement when they are not moved on terrain?

Open Ground specifies that it covers normal movement - and does not count models as open ground.

Therefore you can not move onto a models base, as that is not terrain.

 DeathReaper wrote:
You can not move onto friendly models bases as the models bases are not terrain.

Moving through terrain section tells us that models move through terrain. (90)

Where are the rules for a model's movement when they are not moved on terrain?

Open Ground specifies that it covers normal movement - and does not count models as open ground.

Therefore you can not move onto a models base, as that is not terrain.

I follow you, but page 80 says you can move beneath a flyer, if friendly. It actually says "can move beneath it".

Could mean the parts overhanging the base dimensions not the base itself, or that you can move through the space the base takes up as if it wasn't there (to get to the other side) but not end up ON it.

I agree that it's annoyingly vague though.

 Lobukia wrote:
I follow you, but page 80 says you can move beneath a flyer, if friendly. It actually says "can move beneath it".

It can move beneath it, as long as it is moving through terrain.

A model's base is not terrain.

If there is Open Terrain beneath a Flyers wing the unit can move beneath the Flyer, because that is Open terrain.

Flyers and Measuring, on page 80, says that the base of a Flyer is effectively ignored except for assaults and embarking/disembarking, but then the next paragraph, Flyers and Other Models, immediately goes on to explain two more circumstances under which they're not ignored.

It draws a distinction between moving under the Flyer model and moving over its base- stating that while models that can physically fit under the Flyer can move beneath it, they still have to remain 1" away from it. It only explicitly references enemy models, but it's still clear that moving under the vehicle doesn't mean moving over the base.

I believe the flyer base still isn't meant to be moved over, just like other model bases aren't, whether by friendly or enemy models.

I don't have a BRB justification for this, but the way that my friends and I have played it is that this is not a mishap for the disembarking unit. Rather than having the model land on top of the Flyer's base and then having to lift the disembarking model if the flyer moves first we always play it with the disembarking friendly model goes to the nearest edge of the flyers' base. If the terrain then landed on is impassable, etc. then a mishap may occur.

That's just my 2 cents. seems like the easiest way to play it

Tyr's hand wrote:
I don't have a BRB justification for this, but the way that my friends and I have played it is that this is not a mishap for the disembarking unit. Rather than having the model land on top of the Flyer's base and then having to lift the disembarking model if the flyer moves first we always play it with the disembarking friendly model goes to the nearest edge of the flyers' base. If the terrain then landed on is difficult, dangerous, etc. then a mishap may occur.

That's just my 2 cents. seems like the easiest way to play it

You don't mishap on difficult or dangerous terrain. Only impassable.

If I read the GK FAQ then if a single model of a unit can't deploy then the entire unit is destroyed - no mishap rolls. I would def like more input on this particular rule because it does not seem right that they could not interact with the base since flyer bases are ignored. It seems to me like a special rule that pertains to only flyers and friendly models.

Flyer bases are ignored, but only for measuring.

Concur. You don't measure to or from the base (except for deployment, assaults, and 1" away), but putting models on top of the base isn't something you measure. I don't believe it's a legal model location, so it would result in mishap. Which is a bad, bad thing for units using Shadow Skies or Skies of Blood.

Page 80 first sentence under the "flyers and other models" says to me that if the model fits it can go beneath a flyer. Beneath meaning under its hull IMO since that is the only thing that matters on vehicles and the wings is a given models can move under because that's always been like that. It also says it can end its movement over friendly models. This sounds like it could stop right on top of a friendly squad... It is in the air after all.

If flyer bases are not ignored, then a flyer could fire a Quad gun by being in base contact with it?

So if enemy has a Qad gun, you can zoom a flyer into base contact with it, and fire it against his own units.

House of El Studios wrote:
Page 80 first sentence under the "flyers and other models" says to me that if the model fits it can go beneath a flyer. Beneath meaning under its hull IMO since that is the only thing that matters on vehicles and the wings is a given models can move under because that's always been like that. It also says it can end its movement over friendly models. This sounds like it could stop right on top of a friendly squad... It is in the air after all.

When it says it can end over and other units move under it's clearly referring to the wings, tail, and any other part of the hull/model that extends sufficiently far out from the base. The same section that says you can move under also clearly says that enemy models have to stay 1" away from the base as normal for any other model.

If flyer bases are not ignored, then a flyer could fire a Quad gun by being in base contact with it?

The issue with vehicles firing or not firing quad guns has nothing to do with bases.

 Mannahnin wrote:
The issue with vehicles firing or not firing quad guns has nothing to do with bases.

Please elaborate.

As far as I can tell, the requirement to fire a Quad gun is to be in base contact with it.

It does say base contact, but I think there's a more fundamental ssue there regarding whether vehicles are intended to be able to man a gun emplacement, which seems pretty absurd and counter-intutive.

 Mannahnin wrote:
It does say base contact, but I think there's a more fundamental ssue there regarding whether vehicles are intended to be able to man a gun emplacement, which seems pretty absurd and counter-intutive.

But this game is about written rules, not intuitive rules, as is not a war simulator. If the rule says that to man a gun there must be base contact, and a flyer have a base, sounds right or wrong, it could shoot it.

I don't have the BRB here, if someone finds that a vehicle cannot shoot it or something, punch me in the face.

This forum is about written rules, as well as discussion of how we actually play them in real life.

The game is about a fun experience with another player, and sometimes to make the game work you have to come to agreement about rules which are ambiguous or nonfunctional. There have always been some of both in every edition of it.

Yes, by the rules a Flyer can fire a Quad gun by being in base contact with it. It's up to you and your group as to whether you think that is intended.

I would like to think that it's not too unrealistic to assume that in the case of a vehicle, a crew member gets out to man the gun. I don't know how it'd work with a dreadnought (as I have seen it done in my FLGS before), let alone a flyer though...

Did some more looking and it looks like everyone in this linked thread does not have issue with a model occupying the same space as the flyer. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=10&ved=0CF4QFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heresy-online.net%2Fforums%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D115770&ei=zPn2ULiRFILc8wTC1YC4CA&usg=AFQjCNG2PxyeAgeHOwoEg5AGuFc43WBYVQ please check it out and respond here.

House of El Studios wrote:
Did some more looking and it looks like everyone in this linked thread does not have issue with a model occupying the same space as the flyer. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=10&ved=0CF4QFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heresy-online.net%2Fforums%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D115770&ei=zPn2ULiRFILc8wTC1YC4CA&usg=AFQjCNG2PxyeAgeHOwoEg5AGuFc43WBYVQ please check it out and respond here.

That is because they are incorrect.

A model is only given permission to move through terrain.

A models base is not terrain.

 DeathReaper wrote:

House of El Studios wrote:
Did some more looking and it looks like everyone in this linked thread does not have issue with a model occupying the same space as the flyer. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=10&ved=0CF4QFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heresy-online.net%2Fforums%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D115770&ei=zPn2ULiRFILc8wTC1YC4CA&usg=AFQjCNG2PxyeAgeHOwoEg5AGuFc43WBYVQ please check it out and respond here.

That is because they are incorrect.

A model is only given permission to move through terrain.

A models base is not terrain.

I agree. As the flyers base is not terrain and enemy models still have to remain 1in away from it in their movement.

I'll need to find the reference, but for now I know that you cannot move through a models/units base unless your Jump Infantry.

So I would wager that if you deviated onto the flyers base that would be a mishap.

I shall consult the BRB and see what I can fine.

BLADERIKER wrote:
So I would wager that if you deviated onto the flyers base that would be a mishap.

That is correct. If you scatter onto the flyers base, or any model really, it is a mishap.

I would like to recite the "flyers and the other models " section.

There it says units can move under the flier (we can see this is friendly models because it furthers the explanation for enemy units later) and "flyer can end its move over such models.

This give open permission to place models under the flyers and on their base(or to actually place the base of the flier over the other models bases but i dont think so).

 pizzaguardian wrote:
I would like to recite the "flyers and the other models " section.

There it says units can move under the flier (we can see this is friendly models because it furthers the explanation for enemy units later) and "flyer can end its move over such models.

This give open permission to place models under the flyers and on their base(or to actually place the base of the flier over the other models bases but i don't think so).

Under flyers, yes, but only if the models that are moving under the flyers are moving through terrain. A flyers base is not terrain, so models can not move there. (Plus the base is only ignored for purposes of measuring thus those rules are in the Flyers and Measuring section).

Also P. 30 states "Models falling back from a combat can freely mo\re through all enemy models that were involved in that combat (they have already missed the chance to catch them) This is an exception to the normal rules for moving that state that a model cannot move through a space occupied by another model."

Normally you "cannot move through a space occupied by another model."