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after reading a bit of this article, it occurred to me that people believe that the only truly competitive Guard army is vendetta spam.

While I don't play guard and know less about their fifth and sixth edition competitive lists, I do note some things about the army:

Shooting is prevalent, in a game where shooting is king (as transition from fifth edition.)
Flyers are amazing amassed (well, sometimes. But we're looking at other options here.)
Guard are the only fifth edition codex to have a skyfire tank as standard.
Guard have cheap, massed infantry - in an edition that does favour infantry to some extent, 50 T3 wounds is nothing to be snuffed at.
Of course, guard still maintain their ridiculous amount of heavy weapons output.

The question then is, if guard have all these options, why is it that 'vendetta spam is the only viable option'?

I'm hoping that's not true.

Further, what were the competitive armies in fifth? How do those armies fare in sixth?

It may not be the *only* competitive list, but its very adaptable. It shuts down monstrous flyers. It shuts down other flyers. It frags enemy armor. It frags teqs. The Vendetta is so awesomely good that spamming it is even more awesomely good.

Scipio Africanus wrote:


Further, what were the competitive armies in fifth? How do those armies fare in sixth?

The two main competitive armies in 5th were infantry guard and mech vets.

Infantry guard took a huge hit and is pathetic in CC compared to what it used to be. 5+ cover makes it rather fragile too.

Mech vets hasn't changed much. Certain parts got better, others got weaker. It's still a top tier army imo, with or without vendettas. Although taking a couple of fliers makes things easier.

Vendettas aren't needed, especially if you take certain forge world choices, but they certainly fill an important role as a multi-task unit.

Vendetta's aren't essential they just seem to be an easy default for players wishing to have a nice win ratio.

IMO an armoured column with plenty of troops defending them works well (against me at least!).

Scipio Africanus wrote:after reading a bit of this article, it occurred to me that people believe that the only truly competitive Guard army is vendetta spam.

While I don't play guard and know less about their fifth and sixth edition competitive lists, I do note some things about the army:

Shooting is prevalent, in a game where shooting is king (as transition from fifth edition.)
Flyers are amazing amassed (well, sometimes. But we're looking at other options here.)
Guard are the only fifth edition codex to have a skyfire tank as standard.
Guard have cheap, massed infantry - in an edition that does favour infantry to some extent, 50 T3 wounds is nothing to be snuffed at.
Of course, guard still maintain their ridiculous amount of heavy weapons output.

Flyers are amazing. And the Necrons have the next best one after the Vendetta, which was not allowed in the linked discussion.

The only skyfire tank model is not made by GW, and therefore was not allowed in the linked discussion.

50 T3 wounds is nothing when you're up against TL Tesla Destructors

Necrons eat mechanized armies.

You should keep in mind the context. Nobody thinks the only compeititve IG army is Vendetta spam. But in the linked discussion, the OP was looking for advice in a format that was heavily and quite obviously geared towrads ensuring a Necron Air Force victory.

The IG flyer with the new rules is just to good to not use.

High armor for a flyer. 3 twin link lascannons. Its easily going to kill any other flyer our there in one go.

Then it also murders armor. Even more so with it being so mobile.

Its so cheap it is almost unfair.

Oh it can hold troops.

and you can field 9 of them.

Its hard to counter... Quad guns wont do much. You can take your own flyers(if you have them) but they are going to out class whatever it is you do bring.

there isnt a lot of AA around to bring..and if you do...your army will be weaker in the other areas.

And this is all coming from someone who plays guard.

The only down point to vendettas is that the base model they sell (that you will have to mod about to get a vendetta) is far from cheap. In fact I think it is the costliest model out there (not counting apocalypse vehicles/scenery.)

Etched In Pride wrote:
The IG flyer with the new rules is just to good to not use.

High armor for a flyer. 3 twin link lascannons. Its easily going to kill any other flyer our there in one go.

Then it also murders armor. Even more so with it being so mobile.

Its so cheap it is almost unfair.

Oh it can hold troops.

and you can field 9 of them.

It hardly murders armor. It's still just three lascannons at TL-BS3

It's 130 points for three hard to kill lascannons. Not really that cheap; just reasonably priced.

Not to mention, fielding 9 of them cripples you by putting them in squadrons.

Etched In Pride wrote:
and you can field 9 of them.

Technically 12 if you use some ABG or Elysian allies. Squadrons of 3 can be hard to use though.

I think that vendettas lost a fair amount of utility under the new rules. No turn one shots, minimum moves, losing outflank (debatable I suppose), maximum turns and evade=snapfire. I don't really like using them much any more, they need to jump through a fair few hoops. I'm not saying that they are bad, they are obviously far from it, just that they lost a lot for an increase in survivability. I prefer the vulture with vector dancer, it is so much more fun to use.

I am having some fun with blobtank lists, which focus on infantry and russes. They are a less extreme form of target denial, as the mid-strength weapons find little to do with no chimeras around. Exept the vulture of course, that thing looks mean and attracts fire.

The Vendetta is very, very powerful for the cost. Three twin linked lascannons at BS 3 have a 75% hit chance! It's not just the BS, its the range. With so many on the board and the range, hover mode and blasting away is an option against some armies.

Vendettas are the most overpowered unit in the game now. Hands down.

For 130 points, you get 3 twin-linked lascannon shots on one of the most resilant vehicles in the game thanks to the broken flyer rules.

Just for a quick comparison: the oh-so-overpowered Necron codex needs to pay 180 points to get 3 PE lascannon shoots in form of a much more vulnerable squad of 3 Heavy Destroyers.

The Vendetta needs to see a HUGE increase in points in order to be balanced.

But then again, why would GW nerf IG? They remain their most expensive army.*

* ACTUALLY PLAYED army. Not including stuff like SoB becaue, seriously, SoB? Pff.

It seems to me that the value of the vendetta really depends on what armies you play against. Facing horde armies(which are now common) it is really not all that great. If anything the meta in 6th has generally made it a worse unit than what it was in 5th. Also are we talking straight no allies ig? If not then blob guard is far more powerful with psykers buffing the blob and marines giving it atsknf.

I have seven of them in my elysian list and a vulture. They are tricky to play in squadrons and not really that much fun.....I just take one vulture now and leae the rest at home.

Breng77 wrote:
It seems to me that the value of the vendetta really depends on what armies you play against. Facing horde armies(which are now common) it is really not all that great. If anything the meta in 6th has generally made it a worse unit than what it was in 5th. Also are we talking straight no allies ig? If not then blob guard is far more powerful with psykers buffing the blob and marines giving it atsknf.

Hordes are no problem for IG given you can spam pie plates.

 azazel the cat wrote:

The only skyfire tank model is not made by GW, and therefore was not allowed in the linked discussion.

I didn't say that the rules of that discussion applied here. I simply said that that article inspired the question.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Vendettas are the most overpowered unit in the game now. Hands down.

For 130 points, you get 3 twin-linked lascannon shots on one of the most resilant vehicles in the game thanks to the broken flyer rules.

Just for a quick comparison: the oh-so-overpowered Necron codex needs to pay 180 points to get 3 PE lascannon shoots in form of a much more vulnerable squad of 3 Heavy Destroyers.

The Vendetta needs to see a HUGE increase in points in order to be balanced.

Vendettas are not the most overpowered - compared to Storm Talons and Stormravens, yes. But Necrons give them a run for their money.

the ""Oh so overpowered"" necron codex has access to the cheapest flyers, which have great opportunities against flyer armour. (S6 with Tesla...)

Stop crying because you play a tier one army.

 Sigvatr wrote:

Breng77 wrote:
It seems to me that the value of the vendetta really depends on what armies you play against. Facing horde armies(which are now common) it is really not all that great. If anything the meta in 6th has generally made it a worse unit than what it was in 5th. Also are we talking straight no allies ig? If not then blob guard is far more powerful with psykers buffing the blob and marines giving it atsknf.

Hordes are no problem for IG given you can spam pie plates.

How can you spam Pie Plates when your spamming "underpriced" Flyers?

Scipio Africanus wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

Breng77 wrote:
It seems to me that the value of the vendetta really depends on what armies you play against. Facing horde armies(which are now common) it is really not all that great. If anything the meta in 6th has generally made it a worse unit than what it was in 5th. Also are we talking straight no allies ig? If not then blob guard is far more powerful with psykers buffing the blob and marines giving it atsknf.

Hordes are no problem for IG given you can spam pie plates.

How can you spam Pie Plates when your spamming "underpriced" Flyers?

you just tape lrbt's to the bottom of em

Scipio Africanus wrote:
The question then is, if guard have all these options, why is it that 'vendetta spam is the only viable option'?

I'm hoping that's not true.

Further, what were the competitive armies in fifth? How do those armies fare in sixth?

Its not.

Manticores are extremely good in today's meta. Since you see a lot more foot armies, manticores can clean house.
PG vets in chimeras are very good. Due to the large number of foot armies, they can clear house. You can also move the chimera 6" and still have them shoot up to 24" from the top.
Foot guard blobs with a rune priest are very good.

Vendettas are extremely good in the meta of today, but they are not the only good option in the guard codex.