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Since I've been painting my recent collection of miniatures, I decided to play through Dawn of War II and Chaos Rising's campaigns, since the two are interlocked. As I played through the Campaign I began to notice something, the Blood Ravens seem to have a lot of wargear and relics that should seriously belong to other chapters, and even other forces of the Imperium and Chaos. I've read the description of several of such items during my playthrough and I believe the Blood Ravens may instead be Blood Magpies.

Exhibit A:
Pistol of Baal's description.

The crimson teardrop icon of the Blood Angels chapter is carved into the grip of this Mk III bolt pistol. Blood Raven armorers claim this dates from a ceremonial exchange of arms between the two chapters in M37. Blood Angel archivists have no records of any such exchange.

Exhibit B:
Executioner of Heretics' description.

This Garm-pattern bolt pistol bears the sigils of the Imperial Inquisition. It was discovered in the Blood Raven Fortress on Cyrene Secundus, near the body of a murdered Inquisitor. It has proved to be an effective weapon, in spite of its dark origins.

Exhibit C:
The Armor of Infernus, which is an Alpha Legion armor secretly taken from the corpse of a Alpha Legionnaire during the Tartarus Campaign.


Funny how when I first played through the games, I never gave such things a second thought. However, now that I do...it seems like most of the Blood Raven's armory is 'borrowed' from other chapters, imperial forces and even chaos traitors. I wondering what others, with more insight in the War40k universe than I, thought about this and what other imperial forces could possibly think when seeing Blood Ravens, such ass Boreale, enter battle wielding weapons that don't seem chapter fitting, such as one of Boreale's wargear in Soulstorm, Rogal's Fist.

But whats the point behind this? Thats been a meme since before i heard of 40k. I don't see the discussions direction here. I dont mean to be rude but whats the discussion?

Please don't post things like this on Dakka. -Mannahnin

Basically the BR are either kleptomaniac, for just so under-stocked that they keep everything they run into.

After all, you must remember that most wargear you find in the battlefield, not granted from the armory, so it seems like the chapter don't have much to fall back upon when it comes to arms and armor (even the few relics they have tend to get stolen from them)

Though them being borderline thiefs sounds logical. even if they liturally steal everything not bolted to the walls they are on a moral highground over many chapters who murder people on a whim.

It's kind of a joke on the internet. How the blood ravens "borrow" and "trade" and "find" a lot of their equipment.

I wasn't referring to the meme though, I'm generally curious because it just seemed odd to me while playing through DoW II.

Seems to me like the intent of the designers was to include a diverse set of special items in the game, while at the same time making some easy references to existing fluff -- a flamer called "Vulkan's Wrath" here, lightning claws called "Vengeance of Corax" there(not actual items, mind, but examples).

In Norway we uses the expression: "Stealing like a raven." (for kleptomaniacs) It's very fitting for the Blood Ravens, as if memory serves they offered to make the Space Wolves something nice back. The Wolf Lord just snapped: "They can keep their trinkets."

You have to wonder if it was the same one that knocked out a Blood Raven captain after being forced to work with them. They used sossery infront of a gang of Uthers.

DoW2 had a lot of...interesting loot.

By the time we hit Retribution, and you can play the other factions, their wargear is a collection of all sorts of famous equipment from across the galaxy; the Guard can get Eisenhorn's sword, Chaos can get all sorts of different legion-weapons, Eldar get wargear from all manner of craftworld, it's just until Retribution came out, it was just the Blood Ravens stealing everything that wasn't nailed down.

Honestly, I wouldn't read too much into it, as it was clearly a design decision by Relic to introduce as much varied wargear as possible, and it went a little over the top. 40k has a long tradition of looting the dead and old battlefields for arms and armour; the BR are hardly the first chapter to be described as "acquiring" equipment with no formal record of where it came from, and non-first founding chapters tend to have more diverse armouries, drawn from all manner of encounters, forgeworlds and other chapter forges across the years.

Certainly doesn't hurt that the BR don't really no where or when they're from, so I never really concerned myself with DoW2's diverse loot list.

Well, save for the Ultrasmurf teacup I modeled on my Sternguard's belt.

The meme came about for a reason. Because everything they have is fething stolen!

 Vaerros wrote:
Seems to me like the intent of the designers was to include a diverse set of special items in the game, while at the same time making some easy references to existing fluff -- a flamer called "Vulkan's Wrath" here, lightning claws called "Vengeance of Corax" there(not actual items, mind, but examples).

This is true though. The creators did want to incorporate as much of the diverse 40k universe as possible. Even if if id did mean stealing every fething thing the chapter could get their grimy hands on. But let's face it, both DoW and DoW II are magnificent games. They really do a good job of representing what the grim darkness of the far future is like.

I actually got into Warhammer 40k through Dawn of War. My army WAS going to be Blood Ravens, but then I noticed that the DV space marines had Dark Angels markings molded in and it kind of ruined that bit.

TimmyTheNerd wrote:
I actually got into Warhammer 40k through Dawn of War. My army WAS going to be Blood Ravens, but then I noticed that the DV space marines had Dark Angels markings molded in and it kind of ruined that bit.

Well that blows (and is kinda karma for you not doing your homework). Remember that you could always just practice your painting on them, sell some and then start fresh... or make up your own chapter that is similar look to DA.

 andtheyshallknownofear wrote:

TimmyTheNerd wrote:
I actually got into Warhammer 40k through Dawn of War. My army WAS going to be Blood Ravens, but then I noticed that the DV space marines had Dark Angels markings molded in and it kind of ruined that bit.

Well that blows (and is kinda karma for you not doing your homework). Remember that you could always just practice your painting on them, sell some and then start fresh... or make up your own chapter that is similar look to DA.

Or do the obvious and stick with them being Blood Ravens.....who wear armor that fell off the back of a bulk hauler. Paint in DA colors, but just paint over the emblem on the pauldron with a BR.

I actually really like that the Blood Ravens have a habit of filling their vaults with the wargear and relics of other chapters. It shows their search for ancient artifacts and knowledge knows no bounds and they hold themselves to no code of honor when it comes to its acquisition or protection. Other chapters are well aware of this and shun the chapter for their thieving ways.

You people do realize even the Imperial Navy isn't above looting/capturing the hulks of derelict enemy vessels left after a battle, right? That's really no different from what the Blood Ravens do by picking up random bits and pieces on the battlefield.

The issue with the ravens is that most of their armory is made out of "bits and pieces" of other imperial forces, not their enemies.

So this begs the question-where do they FIND all that?

 BoomWolf wrote:
The issue with the ravens is that most of their armory is made out of "bits and pieces" of other imperial forces, not their enemies.

So this begs the question-where do they FIND all that?

Looting/salvaging dead bodies?

The amounts and quality makes is suspecius, especially considering they never fought alongside some of them.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
You people do realize even the Imperial Navy isn't above looting/capturing the hulks of derelict enemy vessels left after a battle, right? That's really no different from what the Blood Ravens do by picking up random bits and pieces on the battlefield.

There's a difference between looting random bits off the battlefield and claiming holy relics clearly owned by another chapter and keeping them as your own.

jareddm wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
You people do realize even the Imperial Navy isn't above looting/capturing the hulks of derelict enemy vessels left after a battle, right? That's really no different from what the Blood Ravens do by picking up random bits and pieces on the battlefield.

There's a difference between looting random bits off the battlefield and claiming holy relics clearly owned by another chapter and keeping them as your own.

Even so, it's not kosher keeping the loot. I regard it akin to me finding your VISA with your code, and not turning it in to the police. If that happened I would feel obliged to a reward, but me abusing your card freely buying a new set of sunglasses when I get smudge on the one ones I had bought yesterday with your VISA is akin to how I regard the Blood Ravens with them keeping the equipment, it's just not kosher.

You are aware that the 40k moral code is VERY different then the real-life one, right?

 BoomWolf wrote:
You are aware that the 40k moral code is VERY different then the real-life one, right?

Is it? How, I'm sure people even in wh40k. would react to credit-card fraud. It's not a mere thing for the guy in question. I was just making a down to earth example, but sure you can send me your VISA with the code, so I can finally realize my dream of acting like a member of Motley Crue.

I was basically summing up how it would feel for the chapters outside the Blood Ravens when they didn't return their loot. They feel someone has something dear to them, and want it returned.

 Beaviz81 wrote:

jareddm wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
You people do realize even the Imperial Navy isn't above looting/capturing the hulks of derelict enemy vessels left after a battle, right? That's really no different from what the Blood Ravens do by picking up random bits and pieces on the battlefield.

There's a difference between looting random bits off the battlefield and claiming holy relics clearly owned by another chapter and keeping them as your own.

Even so, it's not kosher keeping the loot. I regard it akin to me finding your VISA with your code, and not turning it in to the police. If that happened I would feel obliged to a reward, but me abusing your card freely buying a new set of sunglasses when I get smudge on the one ones I had bought yesterday with your VISA is akin to how I regard the Blood Ravens with them keeping the equipment, it's just not kosher.

I agree. What the Blood Ravens do is pretty despicable and they earn every bit of shunning and suspicion other chapters give them. Though personally, that just makes me like the chapter more as it breaks from what we usually see in regards to space marine honor. Why they continue to do these practices is part of the mystery that I enjoy.

To answer the disappointment about the Dark Vengeance DA engravings, a solution: just paint them as Dark Angels suits and then do an intentionally sloppy Blood Ravens paint job over top. A great gift for the chapter!

 Arcsquad12 wrote:
To answer the disappointment about the Dark Vengeance DA engravings, a solution: just paint them as Dark Angels suits and then do an intentionally sloppy Blood Ravens paint job over top. A great gift for the chapter!

Thats actually a good idea, Ride that bit as the whole armies bit, I suggest a crate with tight DA iconography on it with a BA logo sloppily painted over it. Just some terrain to bring around, maybe put it in the back of an rhino. Obvious DA gear strapped to vehicle, maybe a tied up DA driver in the back of the rhino with the open crates.

I like this and want to see it done.

I know I shaved off the moulded iconography from the Black Reach stuff with an exacto knife to help make them into Dark Angels, that's another route that'll annoy fewer people (memes, like anything else, get less funny the more you repeat them).

The BR are better off stealing other chapter's stuff than having loads of wargear called "Wolfish Wolf Wolfingtons" or the "Bloody Bleeding Blood Bloods" like ... ahem, certain other chapters.

jareddm wrote:
Why they continue to do these practices is part of the mystery that I enjoy.

(allegedly) having the gene seed of a Primarch who is now a Demon Prince might have something to do with it, although to be fair he is probably the "least evil" of the DPs.