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I'm trying to decide between 10 vets with 2 Meltas in a Vendetta - and 5 Stormtroopers with 2 Meltas and the Airborne Assault rule Special Op. The mission is the same mission - land behind the enemy lines and stick two Meltas up the enemy barmour's vulnerable ass; this is most likely a suicide mission.

Who's better at that?

Why are you only taking two melta guns in a veteran squad that can take three?

Also, the answer is the storm troopers. By the time you've flown your Vendetta over the target and dropped the veterans (probably giving up a turn of Vendetta fire in the process, so just skip that plan and shoot the target with the Vendetta) the storm troopers have already arrived by deep strike without the Vendetta and killed the target.

The Stormtroopers are better, albeit more vulnerable to Interceptors. If your opponent is running a Quad-Gun you should be sure to put your meltaguns in the back of your squad so that they don't get killed.

Am glad you asked this question golan as iv been thinking this my self but which unit would last longest ?

I was thinking of useing ten Vets with three meltas and use them to take an armoued unit out first then go for line breaker, i just wounder if i used storm troopers would they have the same lasting power and still do the same thing ?

Peregrine said a good point about the Vendetta though and wasteing its shoots dropping off vets.

Vets don't go in a vendetta anymore. Unloading them runs into choosing between the lesser of 3 evils.

#1 A dangerous close insertion drop with the intent to metla a target. The problem is they scatter a full 2d6 on a scatter, and outright die if they land into a mishap by scattering onto their target. It may also as peregrine 1st pointed out cause the vendetta to have a less than optimal firing solution. Anyway you look at it stormies would probably do the job better than vets deep striking by grav chute.

#2 The vendetta can stop zooming to slow down to 6" and unload them the old fashioned way. The vendetta keeps a good firing solution, and the vets are safely unloaded with a target in their sights. The vendetta will now also turn into a giant lascannon/missile launcher magnet, and can be assaulted.

#3 grav chute the vets to safe location and foot slog it towards a vehicle. No immediate metla shot, and a high chance of the vets getting shot up before they move next turn.

IMO the only thing that should be loaded in a vendetta is a bare bones PCS or infantry squad with the intent of grav chuting them on or near an unoccupied objective on turn 4 or 5. Leave the suicide missions to stormies.

Thanks for the answer! Stormtroopers - here I come!

Sounds good to me too thanks guys.

 schadenfreude wrote:
Vets don't go in a vendetta anymore. Unloading them runs into choosing between the lesser of 3 evils.

I disagree with that. Veterans still go in Vendettas, they just do it with a different purpose. Instead of delivering an immediate melta and melta bomb alpha strike on turn 1 (sigh, I miss turn 1 multi-charging vehicles and wrecking multiple Land Raiders with a single unit) the Vendetta's job is to deliver a mid-game unit like plasma vets. You kill the vehicles, then deliver the plasma guns to kill the disembarked infantry after keeping the squad safe aboard the Vendetta until it's time to use them.

#2 The vendetta can stop zooming to slow down to 6" and unload them the old fashioned way. The vendetta keeps a good firing solution, and the vets are safely unloaded with a target in their sights. The vendetta will now also turn into a giant lascannon/missile launcher magnet, and can be assaulted.

People really need to stop being so paranoid about that. Remember how the Vendetta was one of the best units in the game in 5th, even though it was just a fast skimmer? Well, if you go into hover mode you have the exact same 5th edition Vendetta, except with a free 5+ cover save. And yes, it's still just as good. You need to be careful about when exactly you use hover mode, but it's not the end of the world.

Peregrine wrote:Why are you only taking two melta guns in a veteran squad that can take three?

Yeah, that's a little strange, especially since 3x melta vets still costs LESS than a 2x melta stormie squad.

Peregrine wrote:Also, the answer is the storm troopers. By the time you've flown your Vendetta over the target and dropped the veterans (probably giving up a turn of Vendetta fire in the process, so just skip that plan and shoot the target with the Vendetta) the storm troopers have already arrived by deep strike without the Vendetta and killed the target.

A vendetta and a stormtrooper squad have the same chance of showing up from reserves at the same time. The grav-chutes means that they can both reasonably get to the same place at the same time.

Plus, the vendetta can still shot on a turn in which it grav-chutes.

 Ailaros wrote:
A vendetta and a stormtrooper squad have the same chance of showing up from reserves at the same time. The grav-chutes means that they can both reasonably get to the same place at the same time.

Not necessarily. The storm troopers arrive anywhere on the table, with a re-roll on the scatter dice to allow you to be even more aggressive with their placement. The Vendetta has a limited range of deployment options on the turn it arrives, especially if you didn't outflank it and have to come on from your own table edge (no point in dropping melta next to your own tanks that you just flew over). In many cases you're going to have to wait until the second turn to fly over the point where you want to drop the unit, especially if you want to drop the squad into rear armor (where storm troopers arrive immediately).

Plus, the vendetta can still shot on a turn in which it grav-chutes.

In theory. In reality flying over and past the ideal deployment point often means turning your guns away from the target and having nothing in your firing arc. It's the same reason I gave up on putting bombs on my aircraft, the weapon itself is nice but setting up the bomb drop too often meant having my expensive flyer sitting at the edge of the table with its guns pointed at the wall.

golan2072 wrote:
Thanks for the answer! Stormtroopers - here I come!

Take five, not six.

You account for the worst; Aegis Quad Gun hits and wounds with all four shots; your meltas are still alive and kickin'

Don't use a Valkrye to deep strike. Just send in straight up stormtroopers.

Something I like to do against mechanized lists, is get three squads of five stormtroopers, upgrade six with meltas deep strike with them, ally with Gray Knights, add a strike squad on deep strike.
Then make a gun line with the rest of your IG, and have an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor go with four Mystics.

This list can be modified to take on horde and fast attack armies, but it works the best against mech lists. Why? Because you're putting at least two Meltaguns behind their tanks per turn, which is horrifying. After that, your strike squad will eat up any characters or HQ units, and the IG gun line will eliminate any stragglers. And, you don't have to worry about a Deep Strike mishap, because the Mystics make sure you hit where you aim.

I've used this tactic against BA mechanized, Tau Mechanized, SM mechanized, and IG mechanized. It has yet to lose.

Might want to edit, Cappy

230 for Vendetta w/ 3 Metla, or 210 for 10 melta... Scoring, non scoring, massive distraction, bigger distraction. Each have their roles.

Definitely stormtroopers for your intended role. Vets would take too long to get there, and by the time they arrived their job would be pointless. Vets would still be awesome in a vendetta if you keep them in there the first couple of turns till they catch an enemy infantry unit out of cover with plasma or make a grab at an objective late game.

If you only want to blow up the tank? Stormtroopers are the way to go. They do melta much better, and much more cheaply.

If you want to blow up the tank, fry the inhabitants, and take the objective they were sitting on? That's where the plasmavet vendetta squadron shines.

My main problem with PlasmaVets is that they tie up the Vendetta for one turn as it has to insert them to their target rather than deep strike to the optimal firing position. Storm Troopers simply parachute (and can re-roll a failed Deep Strike scatter roll!) in the enemy's rear without tying up a Vendetta.

golan2072 wrote:
My main problem with PlasmaVets is that they tie up the Vendetta for one turn as it has to insert them to their target rather than deep strike to the optimal firing position. Storm Troopers simply parachute (and can re-roll a failed Deep Strike scatter roll!) in the enemy's rear without tying up a Vendetta.

Generally the vendetta isn't going to be in a decent firing position every turn. When you don't have a target either drop them out or pop into skimmer mode and let them walk out and rain rapid fire plasma.


I agree with the consensus of this thread, melta-suicide stormies are better for anti-tank. They're pretty hit and miss though, so rely on them the same way you rely on a coin toss.

Which is why you bring lots of them. We're guard, everything is a coin toss. We just throw more coins.

I have had a SWS with triple flamers used against me countless times since 5th. Fairly effective late game; drop out a scoring unit that can force wounds on a squad, ignore cover and all for an affordable 45 points.

Pretty nice hiding out in a vendetta. If you lose the bird, not a big deal to lose that extra unit.

 Dr. Serling wrote:
I have had a SWS with triple flamers used against me countless times since 5th. Fairly effective late game; drop out a scoring unit that can force wounds on a squad, ignore cover and all for an affordable 45 points.

Pretty nice hiding out in a vendetta. If you lose the bird, not a big deal to lose that extra unit.

Flamer PCS fills the same role if you'd ever like to try that trick, with 1 more flamer and orders, all for the same price (50pts, same as the SWS with x3 flamers)

Probably my favorite thing I've found to chuck out the back. It's just ridiculously good, and if it never does anything, big whoop, that was only 50pts.

Remember to have the platoon commander throw a frag grenade, too. It can't hurt, and it might help.

 Peregrine wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
Vets don't go in a vendetta anymore. Unloading them runs into choosing between the lesser of 3 evils.

I disagree with that. Veterans still go in Vendettas, they just do it with a different purpose. Instead of delivering an immediate melta and melta bomb alpha strike on turn 1 (sigh, I miss turn 1 multi-charging vehicles and wrecking multiple Land Raiders with a single unit) the Vendetta's job is to deliver a mid-game unit like plasma vets. You kill the vehicles, then deliver the plasma guns to kill the disembarked infantry after keeping the squad safe aboard the Vendetta until it's time to use them.

#2 The vendetta can stop zooming to slow down to 6" and unload them the old fashioned way. The vendetta keeps a good firing solution, and the vets are safely unloaded with a target in their sights. The vendetta will now also turn into a giant lascannon/missile launcher magnet, and can be assaulted.

People really need to stop being so paranoid about that. Remember how the Vendetta was one of the best units in the game in 5th, even though it was just a fast skimmer? Well, if you go into hover mode you have the exact same 5th edition Vendetta, except with a free 5+ cover save. And yes, it's still just as good. You need to be careful about when exactly you use hover mode, but it's not the end of the world.

When not zooming Vendettas only take 1/3 the damage from shooting in 5th ed, but take 1/3 more to 4 times as many hits in CC.

Holding plasma vets inside until mid game seems like a solid plan if the opposing side doesn't have good ack ack. Against decent ack ack I would be nervous about holding a 115 point squad inside. It's a good plan A, but it needs a plan B in situations where ack ack is too risky to keep an expensive squad inside.