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I'll be running a platoon lead by Alrahem for the first time, and i was interested if anyone had any experience with his usage. The platoon he's leading is as follows:
Platoon CS - 145 overall
Standard
1Plasma
1 Melta
Krak grenades
Alrahem (of course)

Infantry Squad 1 - 65
Grenade Launcher
Vox
Melta Bomb (Sergeant)


Infantry Squad 2 - 65
Flamer
Vox
Melta Bomb (Sergeant)


Infantry Squad 3 - 65
Grenade Launcher
Vox
Melta Bomb (Sergeant)

Special Weapon squad - 50
2x Flamers and a Grenade Launcher

Heavy Weapon Squad - 105
3 Lascannons

I'm not so much asking for a full run down of what is right or wrong about this list, but is the whole outflanking thing with guard even that effective? My usual strategy is sit back , roll dice, and see who dies. I'm interested in Alrahem, but i would be extremely happy to get the run down on people's success or fails with him.

Lose the Platoon standard, all it does is count for an extra wound in Close combat where the squad will most likely get swept away in one assault.

To be honest grenade launchers are not to great and dont have much killing/ threatening power to do much. The lascannon heavy weapons is a terrible idea because the turn they move on they will have to snap fire since they moved on and by the end of the next turn they will probably be dead.

Ive seen a lot of people have infantry squads with melta guns or plasma guns mounted in chimeras to have a mild av12 wall come in from the board edge, and melta guns and plasma guns are actually threatening and have killing power.

I just noticed but you dont have a vox in alrahems command squad therefore all your infantry squads have wasted points on voxs because the command unit doesnt have one so they wont get the bonus to reroll. I personally believe you dont need the voxs as you could save points for the more powerful special weapons.

Drop the melta bombs on the sergeants as they probably wont need them unless you run into a lot of vehicles which melta guns would handle and dreads and monstrous creatures but if a single infantry squad runs into 1 of those they are just as good as dead in my opinion.

Drop the heavy weapons squad in his platoon. Since they have to walk on, their shots are wasted.

Don't mix the weapons. The squad either gets a melta, or a plasma, not both. Even if you only have a few of each in your entire army, do not try and make your squads kind of good by giving them 2 grenade launchers and a flamer, etc. It just ends badly. If you don't have many special weapons available yet, weapons that fill similar roles are forgiveable (i.e. 1 plasma and 2 GL's, or a melta and 2 flamers) but try to avoid it if at all possible.

By the way, what are you trying to accomplish with this platoon exactly? It seems to just be a mishmash of random units with no clear purpose. Is this platoon's goal to get an easy linebreaker point? Take objectives? Take out enemy tanks in the backfield? We need to know what these guys are supposed to do before we can help you more.

I used to use Al Rahem in 5th as part of an all-reserves army. In that case he was amazing, allowing (in combination with other outflanking units, like Vendettas, and DS'ing units like Storm Troopers) you to essentially "box in" your opponent, deploying in all 4 corners of the table when your stuff does arrive.

How is he now? Meh...He's kinda neat for sneaking some Melta Guns or Plasma Guns into your enemy's backfield but the new vehicle rules make him sort of meh. You can't drive up 12", disembark 2" to the back of the base, and BiD melta spray things anymore.


FWIW, I ran him as: PCS w/ Al Rahem and 4 Melta Guns in a Chimera. 2 Infantry Squads with Melta Guns in Chimeras. So it was 6 Melta Guns in 3 Chimeras outflanking.

 For_The_Swarm wrote:
Platoon CS - 145 overall
Standard
1Plasma
1 Melta
Krak grenades
Alrahem (of course)

Garbage unit. Never mix weapons, never take platoon standards, never leave weapon upgrade slots empty. This unit needs to be 4x melta or plasma, probably in a Chimera.

Infantry Squad 1 - 65
Grenade Launcher
Vox
Melta Bomb (Sergeant)

Grenade launchers are garbage, never take them. The vox is pointless since the unit giving the orders doesn't have one, and you're never going to waste an order on this squad anyway. This unit (and your other infantry squads as well) needs to have a melta or plasma gun, an AC or LC, and probably a Chimera.

Special Weapon squad - 50
2x Flamers and a Grenade Launcher

Garbage unit. Not only do you waste a slot on a grenade launcher the weapons don't even work well together. If you're going to take a SWS at all (and you shouldn't, they're too fragile and limited in firepower) you need to take three flamers or melta guns.

Heavy Weapon Squad - 105
3 Lascannons

No point in keeping these separate, put them in the infantry squads.

I'm not so much asking for a full run down of what is right or wrong about this list, but is the whole outflanking thing with guard even that effective? My usual strategy is sit back , roll dice, and see who dies. I'm interested in Alrahem, but i would be extremely happy to get the run down on people's success or fails with him.

It can work, but only if you have a good plan and don't need those points starting on the table (for example, if you have lots of flyers already adding more reserve units is not a good idea). Just throwing Al'rahem into a random list with a random pile of upgrades on his unit is just a waste of points and will probably cost you the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
FWIW, I ran him as: PCS w/ Al Rahem and 4 Melta Guns in a Chimera. 2 Infantry Squads with Melta Guns in Chimeras. So it was 6 Melta Guns in 3 Chimeras outflanking.

This is wisdom. Do it this way.

That was harsh. I disagree with your appraisal of grenade launchers. They average 2-3 str 3 hits with a blast, which would usually take 4-6 guardsmen to dish out the equivalent. There is also the krak option if there is a light vehicle in your way

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
They average 2-3 str 3 hits with a blast, which would usually take 4-6 guardsmen to dish out the equivalent.

No, they average less than one hit per blast at STR 3 Ap -, which is laughably bad compared to a melta/plasma gun. They're probably not worse than a lasgun, but a lasgun is free.

There is also the krak option if there is a light vehicle in your way

Which is barely an option, since it's so ineffective. I'd rather pay another 5 points for a melta gun and have a non-trivial chance of doing something to that vehicle.

If you're sending a platoon behind enemy lines into harm's way, the last thing they should be taking is grenade launchers. These are the guys who WILL be going face to face with the enemy. One s6 hit half the time or a frag grenade blast isn't going to cut it it. Heck, the frag grenade blast is even less of a reason now, since every guardsmen in the army except for conscripts gets frag grenades for free anyways.

If you're back there, you need to make every shot count. When a melta gun and plasma gun only cost a few more points, why not opt for the far superior weapon? A single meltagun will always do far more damage than 2 grenade launchers will. A plasma gun will easily do more damage than it's weight in grenade launchers (unless you fight swarm gaunts and the guy doesn't know how to spread out)

If you want to send Al'Rahem's boys back there with GL's, be my guest, but when those guys get in contact with the enemy I'm pretty sure you'll wish you had spent the points on more powerful special weapons instead.

Al'Rahem is still viable, but you've got to make his platoon very synergistic. If they're going to take out vehicles, take lots of melta. If they're going to kill infantry, take lots of flamers. SWS squads are fun to run with an Al'Rahem platoon if they're 3xFlamer and the rest of the platoon handles something else. Think like guerrilla warfare, light & fast. Also, abuse his order "Like The Wind"

MrMoustaffa wrote:
By the way, what are you trying to accomplish with this platoon exactly? It seems to just be a mishmash of random units with no clear purpose. Is this platoon's goal to get an easy linebreaker point? Take objectives? Take out enemy tanks in the backfield? We need to know what these guys are supposed to do before we can help you more.

this group was mostly brought together out of a seize objectives standpoint. With that in mind however, i know that most of the people i play make extensive use of vehicles, and i was throwing the lascannon's in there to deal with the usual defiler or vindicator that i find hunkered down. Now at that you may say just throw them in another platoon or amongst individual squads, which is viable, but the fact of the matter is that i don't have enough models

tankboy145 wrote:
I just noticed but you dont have a vox in alrahems command squad therefore all your infantry squads have wasted points on voxs because the command unit doesnt have one so they wont get the bonus to reroll. I personally believe you dont need the voxs as you could save points for the more powerful special weapons.

I had actually forgotten to put the vox in there, so my bad. I get what you're saying, but I like that reroll, as I'm prone to rolling high for all my LD tests for orders (and low for shooting ) and an Incoming! order has saved my men's asses on more than 1 occasion.

Thanks for all the speedy replies guys! I have been running the same stuff for about 3 years, and this is really making me think about some of the point expenditures i have.

 For_The_Swarm wrote:
as I'm prone to rolling high for all my LD tests for orders (and low for shooting )

You aren't. You roll average like everyone else.

and an Incoming! order has saved my men's asses on more than 1 occasion.

Two problems here:

1) Al'rahem can't issue "Incoming!", he only gets BiD, FRFSRF and his special order. And since you're outflanking you won't be close enough to a unit that can issue it. Meanwhile Al'rahem is almost always going to be using BiD, and that never goes to a unit with no anti-vehicle weapons like your infantry squad.

2) Taking a vox in your command squad is a waste of a melta gun slot.

Stormrider wrote:Al'Rahem is still viable, but you've got to make his platoon very synergistic. If they're going to take out vehicles, take lots of melta. If they're going to kill infantry, take lots of flamers. SWS squads are fun to run with an Al'Rahem platoon if they're 3xFlamer and the rest of the platoon handles something else. Think like guerrilla warfare, light & fast. Also, abuse his order "Like The Wind"

Alright. No "Jack of all trades" crap. One goal in mind, with the right war gear to suit it.

MrMoustaffa wrote:If you're sending a platoon behind enemy lines into harm's way, the last thing they should be taking is grenade launchers. These are the guys who WILL be going face to face with the enemy. One s6 hit half the time or a frag grenade blast isn't going to cut it it. Heck, the frag grenade blast is even less of a reason now, since every guardsmen in the army except for conscripts gets frag grenades for free anyways.

If you're back there, you need to make every shot count. When a melta gun and plasma gun only cost a few more points, why not opt for the far superior weapon? A single meltagun will always do far more damage than 2 grenade launchers will. A plasma gun will easily do more damage than it's weight in grenade launchers (unless you fight swarm gaunts and the guy doesn't know how to spread out)

If you want to send Al'Rahem's boys back there with GL's, be my guest, but when those guys get in contact with the enemy I'm pretty sure you'll wish you had spent the points on more powerful special weapons instead.

The more i look at what all of you guys are saying about meltas the more i look at my grenade launchers and realize they have never done my much good.

Peregrine wrote:1) Al'rahem can't issue "Incoming!", he only gets BiD, FRFSRF and his special order. And since you're outflanking you won't be close enough to a unit that can issue it. Meanwhile Al'rahem is almost always going to be using BiD, and that never goes to a unit with no anti-vehicle weapons like your infantry squad.

Thanks for pointing that out to me now before i had someone call me out on it later.

Either go mech with 3 infantry squads in chimeras or go meatgrinder with 5 infantry squads pack them full of melta and plasma give them a commisar and start FRFSRFing everything in sight 60+ stubborn guys in the enemies deployment will be very hard to shift

 For_The_Swarm wrote:

Stormrider wrote:Al'Rahem is still viable, but you've got to make his platoon very synergistic. If they're going to take out vehicles, take lots of melta. If they're going to kill infantry, take lots of flamers. SWS squads are fun to run with an Al'Rahem platoon if they're 3xFlamer and the rest of the platoon handles something else. Think like guerrilla warfare, light & fast. Also, abuse his order "Like The Wind"

Alright. No "Jack of all trades" crap. One goal in mind, with the right war gear to suit it.


The more i look at what all of you guys are saying about meltas the more i look at my grenade launchers and realize they have never done my much good.

There's nothing wrong with running fluffy lists with GL's and lots of mixed weaponry in casual games, but in my experiences, taking units with mixed weapons just never seem to make much of a dent in anything.

If you're looking for an objective grabbing force, have you considered chimeras? 2 squads with meltaguns in a chimera with flamer/multilaser and Al'Rahem's squad with either x4 melta or x4 plasma (for a whopping 9 plasma shots in double tap range) in a similar chimera will put out a lot of hurt, be quick, and be able to clear objectives relatively quickly. It also gives each squad a heavy weapon that can move and fire (multilasers, which aren't bad when firing at side armor), a heavy flamer (which, according to cruddance, is worth a whopping 20pts alone) and the ability to keep your guys alive for far longer. Not to mention it'll help mitigate a bad roll on the outflank result, since if you get stuck on the wrong side, a chimera can cross 18" a turn if you flat out.

Yes, you lose the ability to use those orders the turn he comes on, but it's not a bad trade off. You get more firepower with the chimeras, and arguably will have a better chance to use it, as a chimera with a meltagun in it has roughly an 18" threat range from the edge of the table (roughly 24" if you don't care about 2d6 pen) A guy on foot will barely get you a 12" tank killing range, and no sane person will keep something that close to the edge with al'rahem around.

I'm considering adding something just like this to my tourney lists to speed up games, since foot guard takes a long time to play and I like throwing more things into my opponent's deployment zone. Probably won't work as well for me OP, but if you like to take lots of chimeras, Al'Rahem's mechanized cavalry charge could be a lot more helpful for you. Haven't tried it since 6th hit though.

So, I agree that al'rahem's guys need real guns. I'm not actually per-se against them having heavies either. Snap firing isn't no firing, and al'rahem has BiD. Plus, depending on how things go, you might need him to dig in and hold some ground later in the game.

Anyways, the biggest problem I had with al'rahem is that it's too easy for your opponents to avoid him, and to avoid him in ways where your opponent can still accomplish their goals. Furthermore, al'rahem splits up your force. A big chunk of your guys arrive late, and generally far away from the rest of your army, which can wreak havoc with your force concentration.

I tried him briefly in 6th and found that he had his same weaknesses (well, more now that you can't charge eviscerator priests and stuff with meltabombs straight in off of the board edge anymore). Before, I would consider an al'rahem cavalry charge (in chimeras) extremely optional. Now, I feel it's less so. The main problems of al'rahem are fixed so much better by chimeras now than they were in 5th ed. Still don't know if he's necessarily worth it, though.

Certainly a fun special character to play with, though, and I certainly slagged many a vehicle with him using BiD on himself and a bunch of meltaguns in his own squad.

At the very least, the image of a bunch of chimeras doing a massed cavalry charge on the enemy's flank is extremely badass, so no matter what, rule of cool is on your side.

I'm thinking about giving it a try this weekend. If I get to use it, I'll let you know how it went

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
At the very least, the image of a bunch of chimeras doing a massed cavalry charge on the enemy's flank is extremely badass, so no matter what, rule of cool is on your side.

I'm thinking about giving it a try this weekend. If I get to use it, I'll let you know how it went

I hear you man, and by all means, tell me how it goes.

Worked pretty well today, although I'm not sure if it was because my opponent's brain exploded from the list I took, or if I just got lucky. Here's the list I took.


I somehow won with it on the crusader mission with caticorners deployment 11-8. Trust me, I'm more shocked than anybody. I could have had a crushing victory had I remembered to move Harker up to contest one of the opponent's objective, but oh well, a win's a win. Al'Rahem proved key to pulling off the victory, as he allowed me to shove 4 chimeras right behind his main group of infantry and make a mad dash for the objectives. While his little platoon only actually claimed one objective, he forced a massive chunk of the opponent's army to swing back around to deal with him, saving my other two objective holders from being over run. While the jury's still out whether he's something I would take to a tournament, he's pretty fun to play with and fills a legitimate role in a list, should you decide to build one with him in mind. I'd say give him a shot, just remember to get an astropath so he comes in on a 2+ and can reroll your table edge.

Opponent's list had 3 Helldrakes with the flamer of doom, two 20 man strong units of Nurgle marines, and 3 mark of nurgle Obliterators. He had some nurgle sorcerer lord thing, but he never accomplished much aside from mind controlling my tank a couple of times.

Nice man! I can see from your list you like to take the named characters in your army.

 For_The_Swarm wrote:
Nice man! I can see from your list you like to take the named characters in your army.

Yeah that was my "holy crap I have to write a 2k list with foot guard in 5 minutes and I suck at using army builder" list.

All of them have a place, but that list was probably not it

I would definitely tone this list down before I took it to a more high stakes game though.