Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Predator - versatility with magnetization, better ranged firepower to sit back and make enemies shoot AV13, good anti armor/MC/high toughness with decent enough anti infantry backup. Not mind blowing in firepower output.

Vindicator - st10 ap2 large blast, psychological warfare, high target priority, has to get close so will expose side armor and likely not last past turn 2-4.

In 6th edition, which would you take (or which would you be more worried to face two of) in a C:SM list.

The predator seems worse as it has a lot more versatility and won't be exposing its side armour to fire so less likely to get damaged. While the vindicator will need to get closer and so will be shot at more and more likely to be die therefore as you have already stated.

They are very different vehicles for very different armies. If you're running a mechanized assault, run vindicators, the side armor can be protected by land raiders or rhinos or any other number of things that are going to be rushing out to objectives. Also, while the gun is only 24", remember that it's threat range is 36 inches, as it can move 12 and fire 24.

The predator is our best long range anti-tank/MC choice. two of those can put some serious hurt on mech armies and MCs alike. Since you always need some kind of anti light tank ability, if you don't need to take vindicators, take preads.

For me, Vindicators are the way to go. about the price of a dreadnaught, this thing can wreck anything. it only has to blow stuff up once and it makes it's points back for me.

Yes, it will draw a lot of fire, but if it hits, somethings going to die.

Predators are more of a miss for me. Yea, it gives out a lot of shots, but those shots don't do a lot. if you want lascannons, go for a razorback or give it to tac marines.

Also the vindicators are from the vanilla codex.

Another thing the pred has going for it is the ability to target flyers. While not optimal, an auto/las pred can snap-fire 4 shots into the air, so has a reasonable chance of connecting with one. Gravy if it's with one of the LCs.

The Vindi does one thing, and it does it very well. If you want to remove pie plate sized chunks of your foe's army, this is your tank. If you want flexibility, go with the pred.

I've never had good luck with large blast templates. I've always found predators more reliable.

 Lord PoPo wrote:
They are very different vehicles for very different armies. If you're running a mechanized assault, run vindicators, the side armor can be protected by land raiders or rhinos or any other number of things that are going to be rushing out to objectives. Also, while the gun is only 24", remember that it's threat range is 36 inches, as it can move 12 and fire 24.

The predator is our best long range anti-tank/MC choice. two of those can put some serious hurt on mech armies and MCs alike. Since you always need some kind of anti light tank ability, if you don't need to take vindicators, take preads.

I believe the threat range is 30'', it must move at combat speed in order to fire the demolisher.

It's 36" for the BA vindicator.

I certainly respect the vindicator. In fact, the vindicator is one of the (many) reasons I like the lascannon. I can safely remove them without getting my ASM instagibbed. Melta is not a safe solution for the vindicator.

I run 2 Vindicators with a Siege Shield. Watching Land Raiders / other important units explode turn 1 is great. The ability to ID plague marines / bikers is great as well. Combined with Null Zone, Chaos Demons literally disintegrate against a Demolisher Cannon around. Any Vehicle you face will die horribly if it gets in the sights of a Vindicator.

The best part of a Vindicator is that your opponent needs to give it it's due respect, or they are going to lose a lot of models. Anything that forces your opponent to change how he thinks or plays is a bonus.

Predators, on the other hand, have the long range firepower. However, they are immobile (if they want to fire at full effectiveness) and cost more than a Vindicator if used for anti tank/ap2 roles. If you run a static/gunline army, put it behind an Aegis Line and use it to blast things.

BA preds are hardly immobile. In fact, its one of the few advantages the BA still have over other loyalists.

That being said, I see why vanilla marines or space wolves might want vindicators.

Definitely a vindicator, run them with rhinos along side and bam...line breaker....have been using vindicators since I first started 40k and have been useful to me in almost every battle...wondering wether to run them in pairs though...

Unless more range is necessary, the vindicator is my preferred choice.

-In 5th ed my vindicator was stunlocked most of the time, now that is gone.
-They can move and still shoot at full effectivity, in mech assault lists that is wort a lot.
-They murder everything except flyers, be it blob, terminators, tanks, T5 multiwound/fnp. Preds can kill flyers, but lose against blob.

Last time I paired it with a LR Demolisher, AV14/13 taking the lead and letting the vindi use the better cover/flanks.
The combination worked good, gonna do that more often.

Neither - bring on the Ares!

But the I play BA and run a paired set of Baals and a pair of Vindicators or two Baals and an Ares. Always worked for me!

One of each works fine. I use the pred to hit tanks from a far, and the vinds to blast T5+ targets.

I like to switch between the two, once my friends get comfortable with me playing one of them for a while, I switch to the other. Both are equally useful.

Yeah, as a Nob biker player I vote y'all run Preds, thanks!

Seriously, Str 10 is Str 10, what else do you have that can do that?

Preds are great and all but other units can take Lascannons and Autocannons, in Elites and Troop slots.

I wish Orks could still loot whole vehicles, Vindi strikes fear and for good reason!

There really is nothing like telling your opponent to just pick them up its S10.

....or seeing that template land right where you wanted it and hearing them sigh.

I always get a kick out of it.

Just be sure to be clear who, takes the blast. if there are different models with an Invl save, count it off on individual models.

A lot of people have said Vindicators die too easily compared to the Predator. I can understand this because Vindi's are a bigger threat and must get closer.

It seems, however, that two Vindi's moving up with infantry squads/transports (using cover/smoke as well as can be) could make a great spearhead that would have done its job by turn 3-4 and have earned their points.
In a defensive situation, couldn't you put them in LOS blocking cover and create some no mans land that an enemy would rue to cross.

In a SM list that already has special and heavy weapons everywhere; it feels like the Predator adds more of what you already have, whereas the Vindicator is a blast you cannot get any other way save for an orbital bombardment.

I am leaning towards looking for 2 Vindis and an Auto/Las Predator to acquire after all that I have read.

I've always felt that if I'm able to get TWO shots off with the vindicator. I'm happy. You can get more, sometimes its just how the game plays out.

Vindicators to me, force lascannons into the game's meta. It's simply to dangerous to get within melta range.

I prefer the predator for the flexibility it provides, it can destroy any unit in the game, albeit ineffectively for some, this is why I find them better for smaller games 1K ish where dedicated anti flier isn't worth it. In larger games vindicators are probably a better choice.

Vindicators are the great equalizer. They're great against any target except multi-wound models that are T6+. Fitting them in a list requires a list designed that presents multiple threats, not mech target saturation. 3 Rhinos/Razorbacks with Tac Squads won't scare your opponent, but 2 Land Raiders with TH/SS Terminators will. Put Vindicators in a list with a threat level like that, and they should stick around.

 AresX8 wrote:
Vindicators are the great equalizer. They're great against any target except multi-wound models that are T6+. Fitting them in a list requires a list designed that presents multiple threats, not mech target saturation. 3 Rhinos/Razorbacks with Tac Squads won't scare your opponent, but 2 Land Raiders with TH/SS Terminators will. Put Vindicators in a list with a threat level like that, and they should stick around.

Good point. This is why I bring MM and Lascannons And the sides of the vindicator are a serious achilles heel.

 AresX8 wrote:
2 Land Raiders with TH/SS Terminators will. Put Vindicators in a list with a threat level like that, and they should stick around.

except that runs at... what... 1030 points? 1 land raider with TH/SS termies should cover your needs. There is cover on the board, and you have rhinos (hopefully), as well as the land raider. 3 things that absolutely need to die is plenty for most armies at the 1500- points level. I mean sure, if you're running around with 2500 point armies then yeah, bring another land raider, hell, bring another land raider and another vindicator (SM allies)

again though. It's wrong to think of the question as "which is better, the predator or the vindicator" They are both very good at what they do, but they do very very different things, and comparing apples to hand grenades isn't gonna get you far when trying to make a good army.

I have a pread loaded up for Inf killing but i have always loved the sheer killing power of a Vindicator, Pluse as people say the look of horro on a players face when you roll a vindicator out.

 Lord PoPo wrote:

 AresX8 wrote:
2 Land Raiders with TH/SS Terminators will. Put Vindicators in a list with a threat level like that, and they should stick around.

except that runs at... what... 1030 points? 1 land raider with TH/SS termies should cover your needs. There is cover on the board, and you have rhinos (hopefully), as well as the land raider. 3 things that absolutely need to die is plenty for most armies at the 1500- points level. I mean sure, if you're running around with 2500 point armies then yeah, bring another land raider, hell, bring another land raider and another vindicator (SM allies)

again though. It's wrong to think of the question as "which is better, the predator or the vindicator" They are both very good at what they do, but they do very very different things, and comparing apples to hand grenades isn't gonna get you far when trying to make a good army.

This. They have completely different jobs. Auto/las predators kill things like Vindicators. Vindicators have a completely different job as anti-teq, anti-horde, anti-lots of stuff. But the vindicator doesn't get to play the whole game with its ass to the deployment edge, either. They are both quite useful in both C:SM and BA lists. I assume they'll be good for DA, assuming they don't super broken stuff for heavy support.

Im not really scared of either to be fair. A Doom Scythe will still cut it in two...

UltraTacSgt wrote:
In 6th edition, which would you take (or which would you be more worried to face two of) in a C:SM list.

I run Codex: Space Marines and have used two Vindicators in 1500+ since 6th edition came out. I've found that they are extraordinarily effective now-- nearly no army can ignore them, they are very cheap, and they just plain laugh at many opponents. Autocannon spam, for instance, becomes even more of a joke than it already is when faced with Vindicators.

Predators, on the other hand, are less effective and often ignorable. I don't rate them too highly, though they're certainly an upgrade to Devastators in 6th edition.

I'd take the Pred for versatility. It's a cheap backfield fire option to give some heavy support.

I count on people ignoring the predators until its too late. It's hard to engage AV 13 at 30"+. Unless you bring the lascannons like I do.

The Vindicator is definitely a bigger home run hitter though.

I might add, why is autocannon spam a joke? I mean you can spam it and still have other weapons in the list.