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So i wonder if a long time ago if the orks during say the War in Heaven (i believe they were around then?) if the average inteligence of a ork was better did they work together as a civilization or what?

You're implying that they aren't intelligent?

Back in da mists of histury der woz da Brain Boyz..

Den dey went away 0or dies or sumfink.

Orkses is betta wivout dem..



Don't let the accent fool you. Orks aren't as dumb as some would make out, They are just a bit ...direct... in their thinking..

It was my understanding they were created to be the muscle while the eldar provided the brains.

So no, I don't think they were ever what civilised races would call 'intelligent'

Zoggit! Ive just dug mesen outta da ground! Ders a broke up wotzit! I recon if i bang this and dat to dis... OI BOIZ! I BUILT US A SPACESHIP! LETS GET LOOTIN!

They are also capable of incredible feats of engineering, and when under strong leadership are capable of unit cohesion that can stymie Tyranid invasions.

I didnt mean to say there stupid i know they can be smart i was more wondering if they worked as an organized group.

Pretty much everything about the Orks is working in a group. They're basically a living weapon thats been left to its own devices in their creators absense.
Left on there own however the manage to build mechs, titans, spaceships andmove hundreds of millions of Orks to warzones with no central command beyond follow the biggest Ork.
Im not 100% up to date but I believe the Orks were genetically engineered to fight the C'tan and as such they're limited to the genetic memory encoded into them anyway, so their intelligence is pretty much stuck with the best way for them to wage war.

Orks is made fer fightin' an' winnin'!

I believe the oldest fluff was that the Orks were created by the Slann to be their "muscle", and the Gretchin were created to be the "Brainboyz" in charge of them in place of the Slann. But in the days after the fall of the Slann (in modern fluff it'd probably be the power vacuum after the Necron-Slann war) the Orks rebelled and enslaved the Gretchin, who soon devolved into the intelligence they have now, and ever since the Orks were the masters.

The old ones created orks to deal with the necrons, later the old ones created the eldar, of which the through eldars decadence, caused a catacaylsmic rift in real time creating slaanesh/ EOT, then the orks left to their own devices turned on the eldar....or some such. as a group yes, individually no.

Imagine an Ak47 if you will. Incredibly durable, capable of surviving insane amounts of damage, and can built out of almost anything anywhere. (like, out of a friggin shovel level easy) It's capable of being fully submerged, frozen, buried in mud, sand, or snow, and as long as the barrel is cleaned out, fire. "Superior" countries regard it as a crude, inefficient, and lower quality to their far more effective M16's and what have you. Despite the fact that their "superior" weapons require more training, complicated sighting mechanisms built into a hard to adjust spot, are far more susceptible to jamming, and are far more fragile (not as true today with the modern M16's, but the older designs very much fit this profile). Despite the AK 47's "failures", it's one of the most common assault rifles on earth, many still kicking after 10-20 years of service, thanks to it's ease of use, durability, and ease of manufacture.

Now imagine if that AK47 gained sentience, the ability to walk around under it's own power, the ability to build more AK 47's from seemingly nothing, an unshakable belief that it was put on this earth to kick ass and take names, and a cockney accent. That is the ork race in a nutshell. What we view as crude, "stupid", and inefficient, is just the orks being incredibly focused on their goal. With proper leadership, orks can outsmart the smartest of tacticians. Mekboyz can create devices that rip holes in the very fabric of reality and create massive titans and force field generators from mere scrap. Mad Doks can bring orks back from the brink of death, even in cases of disembowlment, half their brain missing (ghazgkull himself suffered this), or even a full on decapitation.

The M16 embodiment in this comparison would be the Eldar, obviously. I'm not as familiar with Eldar lore, but from what I know of them, they fit the bill nicely.

Orks are very intelligent. The problem we run into is that our view of intelligence and theirs are very different. We may see intelligence as the ability to do math, or how to write a good book. Orks see it as who can get the most creative kill on the batllefield, or be the first into the fight without getting shot to bitz, etc.

If you're asking when was the last time Orks were civilized... well, you realize you're talking about ORKS right?

MarsNZ wrote:
It was my understanding they were created to be the muscle while the eldar provided the brains.

So no, I don't think they were ever what civilised races would call 'intelligent'

They were separate species, I don't think they were supposed to work together really...

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Necron-Slann war

This guy, lol.

I mean the old ones created them to fight necrons there had to be some sort of civilized command stucture or something keeping them from just attacking there creators or eldar who were they're "Allies" supposedly.

Orks are like a hammer. Effective, blunt and dangerous. Even the hammer must be used correctly to be effective. This basis suggests intillengence. After all Meks don build things by accident all the time!

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I believe the oldest fluff was that the Orks were created by the Slann to be their "muscle", and the Gretchin were created to be the "Brainboyz" in charge of them in place of the Slann.

+1 this part. The brain boyz required a specific fungus in order to maintain their status-quo and their intelligence.
There was some sort of galactic catastrophe and the fungus died out - the brain-boyz regressed into the bickering little snotlings and the orks, with no controls on them, moved into the niche (command structure) by virtue of brute force (in orky terms, might makes right). Orks get bigger and more aggressive the more they fight, and over time, the biggest and meanest orks took over.

The 3rd edition Necron codex also referred to the race of Krork, which most assumed to be the ancestors to the Kroot and the Orks. I always assumed these were the prototype Orks which probably were more intelligent or may be the Brain boyz modern Orks refer to. Though it's more likely Brain Boyz are/were the Old Ones. I imagine the first generations of Orks were probably better trained as they were created by the Old Ones, and probably had a clearer and extensive vocabulary. Over time that has deteriorated to what we have today that may be less intelligent but still serves its original purpose.

Us Orks we iz intellijunt but uvver races like dem oomies don fink we iz intellijunt coz they fink dat intellijunt is sunfink different, see? Dem oomies ave stoopid hoomies intellijunce and we ave betta green orky intellijunt. Dem oomies, dey use deir brainz ter write books and whatnot but we use our green intellijunce ter build ded good spaceships. Dem oomies fink it is magic but really it is orky intellijunce.

Orks are simple-minded, but they are definitely not stupid.

Ivan Issaccs wrote:
Pretty much everything about the Orks is working in a group. They're basically a living weapon thats been left to its own devices in their creators absense.
Left on there own however the manage to build mechs, titans, spaceships andmove hundreds of millions of Orks to warzones with no central command beyond follow the biggest Ork.
Im not 100% up to date but I believe the Orks were genetically engineered to fight the C'tan and as such they're limited to the genetic memory encoded into them anyway, so their intelligence is pretty much stuck with the best way for them to wage war.

This sums is up nicely. The entire ork species is a single, massive, precision engineered, out of control bioweapon created by "the brain boyz" aeons ago. Given that the other ancient races of the galaxy don't fit the template for having needed to create something like the orks, it seems unlikely that the Eldar or Necrons would have done so. I tend to believe the theory that the snotlings are the remnants of the "brain boyz", afflicted with some sort of crippling neural degeneration that robbed them of their brilliance and allowed their genetically engineered warrior-slaves (the orks) to take over, subjugating not only the snotlings but also the old servant class gretchin.

 Overlord Zerrtin wrote:
I didnt mean to say there stupid i know they can be smart i was more wondering if they worked as an organized group.

Of course. There are thousands and thousands of war bands in warhammer. Each having the designated roles for each Ork.

There is a quote in the Ork codex that says that a Eldar farseer had complemented the orks by having created the perfect civilization. Plus the way they act in their own civilization right now is perfect for them.

Ivan Issaccs wrote:
Pretty much everything about the Orks is working in a group.

Datz roight and da mos' impor'ant groop aktivity da boyz do iz CRUMPIN' WUN ANUVVER! Or humies, wotevah.

Although I realize this thread is really just for posting Ork-Cockney, Ivan does raise a very good point. Ork intelligence, and everything else about them, works like static electricity. The constant fighting builds up a psychic charge which makes a lot of weird things, and ultimately the WAAAAAGH, possible. Every ork is equipped with some measure of low cunning. And exercising this faculty along with its others -- brute strength, hair-trigger temper -- creates the fighting nessary to build the psychic charge. My own theory is that this charge collects in the largest specimens, the warbosses, resulting in more transcendent intelligence. In the most notable cases, it also seems to convey psyker powers.

Some Orks are instinctively intelligent, it's a big debate if this is true intelligence or not. Like is a fish that burrows itself into the seabed to catch other fish intelligent? Most people would say fish are stupid as gak despite doing something smarter then a lot of mammals are capable of, because it's just evolution and instinct taking over.

In any regard most Orks are all-out stupid, don't confuse the OddBoyz with your run of the mill types.

It's hard to gauge. What we see as stupid, orks see as merely comical. But I agree most of the orkish intellect seems to be reflexive and instinctual, not creative. Works for them, though.

Amanita, I love your username -- also very appropriate for this thread!

There comes a line from "Meet the heavy" into my mind after reading this thread, "Some people think they can outsmart me. Maybe "sniff" maybe..... I have yet to find someone who can outsmart bullet though!" .
The orks certainly are smart in my opinion. Maybe not humansmart-smart but more of a raw and evilish smartness. Kinda like Mork, or Gork.

 Overlord Zerrtin wrote:
I mean the old ones created them to fight necrons there had to be some sort of civilized command stucture or something keeping them from just attacking there creators or eldar who were they're "Allies" supposedly.

No, the Orks were a biological weapon loosed on the Necrons. They were self-sufficient, having all knowledge they would ever need implanted into their DNA.

The Old Ones were not directing the ork Waaaghs like some masterminds. They simply sat back and watch, possably using their psychic abilities to nudge the orks in the right direction.


Now the Old Ones are gone, but the Orks remain doing what they do.

This is probably where the Eldar first got the idea of manipulating other races, watching the Old Ones do this to the Orks.