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The rules for firing a weapon state something to the effect of if a weapon not being able to pivot(IE the DeathRay on a Doomscythe) then it must fire at a 45 degree angle correct?
However the Deathray says it can nominate a point anywhere within 12inches of the weapon. Does this mean the point can start straight down at the base of the model?

I am pretty sure you are stuck with the 45 degrees, its a flyer with an amazing amount of movement, just think ahead about your shot and avoid the issue.

but again my response is that it says A 12"(Special) Range stating ANYWHERE within the range of 12 inches.

Sure it says starting anywhere but does it say you can ignore the normal rules for shooting like LOS?

A specific rule always overides a general rule correct?

I think there have been several increasingly angry threads on thsi in the past.

Bloodynecronight wrote:
A specific rule always overides a general rule correct?

Yes, assuming there is conflict. But there is no conflict here: You may choose the starting point where you wish, but that does not allow you to ignore any other rules, like requirement for LOS to allocate wounds.

In other words - yes, you can place the starting point out of LOS. However because of the rule on page 16 you can't actually damage anything out of the 45 degree cone of LOS.

rigeld2 wrote:
In other words - yes, you can place the starting point out of LOS. However because of the rule on page 16 you can't actually damage anything out of the 45 degree cone of LOS.

Agreed Rigeld, it's good to be on the same page!

But you can roll for penetration against vehicles.

45 degree LOS 0-12 inches out the roll.

Ive come to the conclussion that the people who write these rule book KNOW the context in which this particular rule is for however forget the break it down in a simple outline form so all can understand.

I can see it now the goobers sitting around Games Workshop headquarters drinking and throwing dice when some says Im going to Fire my death ray backwards. They'd be like "dont me daft ya cheeky monkey thats just PLAIN SILLY".

Lungpickle wrote:
45 degree LOS 0-12 inches out the roll.

Ive come to the conclussion that the people who write these rule book KNOW the context in which this particular rule is for however forget the break it down in a simple outline form so all can understand.

I can see it now the goobers sitting around Games Workshop headquarters drinking and throwing dice when some says Im going to Fire my death ray backwards. They'd be like "dont me daft ya cheeky monkey thats just PLAIN SILLY".

Or they just forgot/didn't update the rule from a 5th edition codex to comply with rules that were largely changed in 6th edition. *Shrug*

Maybe the original intention was to have the Death Ray be on a ventral turret, then they changed their mind when designing the model but didn't change the weapon rules. If the gun had a 360 degree arc then the 12" bubble woudl make sense.

Just a theory. it would be interesting to know what comes first - model design or rules design.

 Praxiss wrote:
Maybe the original intention was to have the Death Ray be on a ventral turret, then they changed their mind when designing the model but didn't change the weapon rules. If the gun had a 360 degree arc then the 12" bubble woudl make sense.

Just a theory. it would be interesting to know what comes first - model design or rules design.

From a "design" point of view we all know 100% what they are supposed to be, pass me some warm butter, I need a breakfast Croissant. (Designers ate a breakfast around the table, one Croissant was left over on the table)....

Suddenly !!!!

VISION!!!



On topic, I play it as long as it starts in the proper area it can wounds where ever else with cover saves.

I always just viewed it that the Scythe was firing the beam as it moved along, cutting a swath. Similar to what you see in alien invasion movies and such.

 Kevin949 wrote:
I always just viewed it that the Scythe was firing the beam as it moved along, cutting a swath. Similar to what you see in alien invasion movies and such.

Considering that all 40k fliers move in straight lines, this is pretty inconsistent explanation. For it to work, all fliers should have 360 degree firing arcs with their weapons....

Luide wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
I always just viewed it that the Scythe was firing the beam as it moved along, cutting a swath. Similar to what you see in alien invasion movies and such.

Considering that all 40k fliers move in straight lines, this is pretty inconsistent explanation. For it to work, all fliers should have 360 degree firing arcs with their weapons....

Flying in a straight line has nothing to do with it. The weapon itself has a 45 degree angle in any direction. While I understand the game is very static, I like to think of things dynamically. Preface: I'm not advocating the death ray can break rules, nor was I saying my viewpoint was an explanation, I'm simply pointing out how my minds eye views it firing. I personally see it more like while the flier is moving it is shooting the beam down and "dragging" it along the battlefield. While it doesn't work that way in the rules, since everything is very analog in this game, it's near impossible for any sort of abstract thinking without comments such as "that doesn't work with the rules."

I have played it as a first point within 12" & 45 degrees, second anywhere within 3D6 of that.

And Yes, I have dropped a pont on my own base and sent it backwards.

 IHateNids wrote:
I have played it as a first point within 12" & 45 degrees, second anywhere within 3D6 of that.

And Yes, I have dropped a pont on my own base and sent it backwards.

That's because you hate nids and cheat. If you sent it back you didn't have Los and have no rule to wound. Cheater.

 IHateNids wrote:
I have played it as a first point within 12" & 45 degrees, second anywhere within 3D6 of that.

And Yes, I have dropped a pont on my own base and sent it backwards.

Page 16, out of Sight. Any wounds in the wound pool that cannot be allocatecd to a model in your 45 degree LOS are lost.

A codex (which as far as GW is concerned is more specific and therefor overrides the basic rules) has included rules for the weapon stating it is anywhere within 12" then a second point a random distance away. This is different than any other weapon in the game currently and therefor does not use standard LoS. If you use the regular turret or hull mount you cannot actually target certain areas which would not be anywhere within 12" would it? Actually allocating the wounds is unfortunately not covered so those rules are still in effect making the weapon nearly useless until they FAQ it one direction or the other.

Gravmyr wrote:
A codex (which as far as GW is concerned is more specific and therefor overrides the basic rules) has included rules for the weapon stating it is anywhere within 12" then a second point a random distance away. This is different than any other weapon in the game currently and therefor does not use standard LoS. If you use the regular turret or hull mount you cannot actually target certain areas which would not be anywhere within 12" would it? Actually allocating the wounds is unfortunately not covered so those rules are still in effect making the weapon nearly useless until they FAQ it one direction or the other.

You can send it straight line at the very least.

How about targeting a place in mid-air with the death beam, would that work? Basically in order to hit things on a 2nd level or on top of a Skyshield.

TheSwarmLives wrote:

Gravmyr wrote:
A codex (which as far as GW is concerned is more specific and therefor overrides the basic rules) has included rules for the weapon stating it is anywhere within 12" then a second point a random distance away. This is different than any other weapon in the game currently and therefor does not use standard LoS. If you use the regular turret or hull mount you cannot actually target certain areas which would not be anywhere within 12" would it? Actually allocating the wounds is unfortunately not covered so those rules are still in effect making the weapon nearly useless until they FAQ it one direction or the other.

You can send it straight line at the very least.

How about targeting a place in mid-air with the death beam, would that work? Basically in order to hit things on a 2nd level or on top of a Skyshield.

No, it has to be "on the battlefield". Skyshield, also, does not have a "second level" as it is basically the same as battlefield terrain, it's not a building or ruin.

You COULD aim the deathray onto the second level of a ruin and hit guys up there, but that seems kind of a waste as you'd only hit whatever is on the second floor and are limiting yourself in range (since most second/third levels are very small and short length).

Could you "aim" the beam vertically through a building, hitting units on multiple floors?

wfischer wrote:
Could you "aim" the beam vertically through a building, hitting units on multiple floors?

That would not be a line, IIRC that's a Vector ( going from memory from a long past thread)

Essentially a line is a 2-D element making one in a 3-D world is something else.

wfischer wrote:
Could you "aim" the beam vertically through a building, hitting units on multiple floors?

I wouldn't imagine you could, both points have to be on the battlefield and if you draw a vertical line then how would you determine just who is and who isn't "under" the line? At that point, you could theoretically claim a unit on the other side of the board is underneath this imaginary, infinite depth vertical line.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

wfischer wrote:
Could you "aim" the beam vertically through a building, hitting units on multiple floors?

That would not be a line, IIRC that's a Vector ( going from memory from a long past thread)

Essentially a line is a 2-D element making one in a 3-D world is something else.

Yes, I believe it's Vector (as in, Vector Thrust Engines on a Fighter Jet for vertical movement).

So we'd agree you couldn't start the point floating in mid air to hit units that are say in a building ect on the 3rd floor?

Also units in the skyshield are counted as being on the ground?

I was thinking, starting the point in mid air and going in a line towards the units on the skyshield for an example.

TheSwarmLives wrote:
So we'd agree you couldn't start the point floating in mid air to hit units that are say in a building ect on the 3rd floor?

Also units in the skyshield are counted as being on the ground?

I was thinking, starting the point in mid air and going in a line towards the units on the skyshield for an example.

Units on a skyshield are just on a piece of terrain, the same as units in a crater. The skyshield is just taller than your standard piece of terrain. No different than if your units were on a bridge between two hills.

 Kevin949 wrote:

TheSwarmLives wrote:
So we'd agree you couldn't start the point floating in mid air to hit units that are say in a building ect on the 3rd floor?

Also units in the skyshield are counted as being on the ground?

I was thinking, starting the point in mid air and going in a line towards the units on the skyshield for an example.

Units on a skyshield are just on a piece of terrain, the same as units in a crater. The skyshield is just taller than your standard piece of terrain. No different than if your units were on a bridge between two hills.

Then how do you account for a unit under the landing pad and another on top. Surely you can't hit both with one area attack.

olcottr wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

TheSwarmLives wrote:
So we'd agree you couldn't start the point floating in mid air to hit units that are say in a building ect on the 3rd floor?

Also units in the skyshield are counted as being on the ground?

I was thinking, starting the point in mid air and going in a line towards the units on the skyshield for an example.

Units on a skyshield are just on a piece of terrain, the same as units in a crater. The skyshield is just taller than your standard piece of terrain. No different than if your units were on a bridge between two hills.

Then how do you account for a unit under the landing pad and another on top. Surely you can't hit both with one area attack.

And there in lies the problem with the skyshield being terrain instead of a ruin or building.

But mostly you would rely on TLOS.

In all honesty though, you probably could technically hit both units, provided you could get both units under the line and have LOS to them. From far enough back and with the right angle, I could see it happening. But most likely, the unit underneath would be safe from attack.