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Juvenat threatment how do they work? How long can a human extend it's life, and what is the drawbacks?

I didn't know it involved implants. I thought it was a whole barrage of "treatments."

Oh then I misread, shall change it.

It all depends on how much money the person has.

The fluff is quite vague on the specifics, only that they exist and there are varying levels of treatments.

Inquisitors, who would have access to the best there is, are often seen being 200-300 years old and in peak physical health. Appearing to only be in their mid 40s.

And what are the contents? I sort of assume something like that means life must fuel life.

Probably some kind of stem cells...

Makers sense. *Shudders*

It's not all that horrible...
We're currently performing experiments with stem cells without killing people...

Sure but that's not grimdark.

Good point...
Clearly the Imperium tortures it out of babies...

Stem cell research is basically research on babies. Dolly comes to mind. Plus mutation is common here for stem-cells being cloned. IRL stem-cell research is far from a kosher matter.

Moreover, I don't think it says anywhere in a GW, FW, or BL publication that juvenant treatments involve stem cells. So it's just a good guess. I'd guess whatever they're doing in M41 is much more complicated and much more horrific.

There are Stem cells retrived from a living fetus, which kills the baby, and then there are Stem cells retrieved from other areas. Such as the Umbilical cord. Some stem cells can also be retrieved from adults, bonemarrow is one example IIRC.

I actually think the most sucesss has been found using adult stem cells, for certain diseases. Plus it has none of the ethical issues of embryonic stem cells.

I go for the simple view-point, that stem-cells mutate often here, try in grimdark, and add more mutation, so they go for babies to grow replacement organs and such. Your ears and nose getting too big? Grab a baby, and so on.

Of course, thats the Grimdark way

Inquisitors stay young by feeding on the flesh of infants.

Didn't we just have this thread a couple weeks back, or is my memory making things up?

Anyhow, as with most of 40k, the "facts" surrounding juvenat treatments are murky. Most instances seem to suggest some sort of drug cocktail, though I would not be surprised if a few authors would have taken an alternate approach to this.

It's hard to say what the maximum possible extension of a lifespan would be, but "several centuries" is the general implication. I think the oldest normal human I ever read about was that Saint Basilius from the 6E rulebook's timeline, who had two entries - one in 321.M37 and one in 112.M38. That's a whopping 791 years between them, and we don't have any clue how old Basilius already was in the first entry...

Personally, I also theorise a connection between juvenat treatments and Space Marine longevity, though this is based on nothing more than both instances involving an artificial extension of one's lifespan to roughly equal degrees.

As for drawbacks, I've never read about any, aside from juvenat treatments being available only to the rich and/or powerful. I suppose a sort of addiction could be involved, though that's just a hunch, and I think the addiction's strength would depend on how much you "overdo it". Remember those old geezers we occasionally see in the artworks? Most of them have tubes stuck in their head or neck, maybe that's some sort of drug dispenser that constantly pumps you full of (re)vitalising mojo.

[edit] I actually like the stem cell idea.

Personally, I believe it would involve treatments to remove built-up toxins and to reverse metabolic and nucleic damage.

That as well, and replace injuries and such.

Well, we (or rather, they) have bionics for that.

Oh they regrow things. Many guys are vain, like Inquisitors and colonel Schaeffer. He is over 300 years old, yet he has a full biological body.

 purplefood wrote:
Good point...
Clearly the Imperium tortures it out of babies...

Why did I laugh at that?

Because I know its probably true.

they had some robotics or something mixed in with human biology.

Depends on the writer. There's way ,many different interpretations. Ben Counter in 'Chapter War' had juveneat gear having to be tied to a person like any sort of life support equipment you'd have in real life (and having to be either backpack mounted or carried by someone else, or built into a special throne.)

In the case of others it seems to be a medical treatment that may require periodic re-applications, or is a 'do it once permanantly' thing. And of course there's always the Inquisition War thing, in which it rejuvenated the body but also totally obliterated the personality and memories (the person in question needed to be completely reeducated as if they had just been born, IIRC.)

Lifespan varies according tos ource too. 3rd edition core rules had the AdMech having the high end of what we might call 'juvenat' (although I think they had other terms for it) living thousands of years (whilst at the same time making them insane. I'd gather from most of the above that rejuvenating the mind is possible, but thats what also wipes the slate clean, so to speak. And that's probably something most Techpriests wouldn't do.) More typically you seem to get about 2-3 centuries out of it (nobility, rogue traders, Inquisitor,s etc.) Some like Horst have been known to live 500, 600 or even 800 years (The last one was mentioned in the Thorian Sourcebook as I recall) but a millenium seems to be the limit for anyone not of the Adeptus MEchanicus.

 Beaviz81 wrote:
Stem cell research is basically research on babies. Dolly comes to mind. Plus mutation is common here for stem-cells being cloned. IRL stem-cell research is far from a kosher matter.

Fetal stem cells aren't used.
Embryonic stem cells are used however.
I suppose it depends when you think life begins...

 Lynata wrote:

As for drawbacks, I've never read about any, aside from juvenat treatments being available only to the rich and/or powerful. I suppose a sort of addiction could be involved, though that's just a hunch, and I think the addiction's strength would depend on how much you "overdo it". Remember those old geezers we occasionally see in the artworks? Most of them have tubes stuck in their head or neck, maybe that's some sort of drug dispenser that constantly pumps you full of (re)vitalising mojo.

[edit] I actually like the stem cell idea.

I think that there's a bunch of technologies dumped together under one label - like "cancer threatments" today.

And if we go even further down the BL memory lane, then we'll found Ian Watsons little trilogy, where it is stated that one , highly efficient , version of juvenat treatment involves clean-up of brain - with memories/experienses lost every time one undergoes it. If you do it too much, you'll can even forget who you are despite being physicaly well off.
So in such case, there' a reason high-ranked persons of influence do not abuse this treatment - what good it is for Inquisitor or politician to be 30ish again if he loses his experience and personality?

I'd also think the treatments can be less harsh the earlier you start on them.

A young nobleman who gets his juvenat needs mapped and treatments put in order can probably manage all his life with "only" genetherapy and maintenance drugs. An older individual - say a decorated officer risen to command crusades - would need much more. Surgery on old war wounds, replacements for damaged body parts etc.

I want to say a Ciaphas Cain novel had something about a planetary governor having juvenant work done and had wisely worn a dress to hide her elbows. Something about the process not working completely or having tell tell signs of it being done. Maybe various worlds have various abilities and that juvenant work was more akin to a facelift and drugs than actual rejuvenation.

Also I could see admech priests having a different version where they just replace the brain with circuits/more bionics and thus are not affected by any memory loss/erasure side effects.

The last thing is to replace the side for creativity with logic only, so you will basically become robbed of any imagination, but your logic will reign supreme.

 mrwhoop wrote:
I want to say a Ciaphas Cain novel had something about a planetary governor having juvenant work done and had wisely worn a dress to hide her elbows. Something about the process not working completely or having tell tell signs of it being done. Maybe various worlds have various abilities and that juvenant work was more akin to a facelift and drugs than actual rejuvenation.

Also I could see admech priests having a different version where they just replace the brain with circuits/more bionics and thus are not affected by any memory loss/erasure side effects.

a) There's likely not only more than single version of rejuvenat, but aesthetics of same processes also very much depends on mastership and goals of one applying it - look results of cosmetic surgery in RW, then remember notorious failures like Tara Reid's lipo etc . Also - most efficient rejuv almost inevitably will be one from AdMech, and cogboys more concerned with beauty and efficiency of process and long-term result than outside appearance.

b) Cogboys are fond of total cyborgization - so most probably brain is the only body part they really concerned with. Data cores and cogitator implants are must have for any ranking AM, but they cant' replace their brain entirely in long run (not to mention that this can be abomination in itself, like non-wetware AI).
Of course having option to upload/download ones memories pretty much negates amnesia's danger, but i think their version of "rejuvenat" is more akin to dreadnought life support than one-time event for unaugmented humans.

I would guess that some juvenat treatments involve on-the-spot genetic manipulation. Modern-day biologists have already worked out that

a) aging is due to cell damage from oxygen [oxygen is actually toxic to us]
b) Jellyfish are immortal because they posses a genetic trait that allows their cells to revert to a younger stage in their life cycle, causing them to become immortal.

It's not too hard to imagine that 40k years down the line, someone figured out how to use those facts.

Given that Inquisitors and Space Marines are indispensable forces, it would make sense that they would be able to get enough of this to become immortal, with a side of extended/eternal youth.
Rich guys obviously get lavishly treated to such technologies, though it may be faulty, or just imperfect, and be able to grant them a good few more decades/centuries