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Anyone O&G players have good army builds and tactics vs. Dwarfs? Especially when they are castling up on you and using gunlines and war machines?

My thought is the following are good to use:

Doom Divers - use against high armor inf

Trolls with character on boar - no hatred against them, hard hitting, regen and spit

Savage Orc Big'uns for core block - able to go toe to toe with most Dwarf Inf

Black Orcs – Able to match most Dwarf Inf.

Boar Boyz get in to engage war machines

Giant – support O&G Inf and hunt gunlines/war machines.

 btr75 wrote:
Anyone O&G players have good army builds and tactics vs. Dwarfs? Especially when they are castling up on you and using gunlines and war machines?

I'm not an O&G player, but I *am* a dwarf player and can tell you what things alarm me the most.

Doom Divers - use against high armor inf

To some degree, yes. But honestly most of the infantry in a lot of builds are actually fairly light armored- heavy armor and great weapons. If you know you're going against ironbreakers, then this becomes more useful. I fear them because they can spank my beloved gyrocopter. Also handy for landing on master engineers if the other guy's got any.

Trolls with character on boar - no hatred against them, hard hitting, regen and spit

Yep, trolls are a pain. Flaming war machines can cause them problems, but there's usually an awful lot of stuff to shoot.

Savage Orc Big'uns for core block - able to go toe to toe with most Dwarf Inf

The worst! I hate dealing with these guys. Multi-attack infantry, especially those with higher strength are rough. Dwarves just don't have the volume of attacks to easily go toe to toe with these guys. Ward save (with the ubiquitous shrunken head) and large base size make these harder to whittle down with war machines.

Black Orcs – Able to match most Dwarf Inf.

Not as concerned for some reason. Maybe its because I haven't seen them often?

Boar Boyz get in to engage war machines

Usually more worried about wolf riders. Boars are easier to block off than fast cav. The goblins don't always win the combats when they get there, but they often will tie up the machines long enough for the rest of the army to do its job.

Giant – support O&G Inf and hunt gunlines/war machines.

Although I love seeing giants on the table, because I think they're fun and would love someone to make them work, they'll have a tough time against dwarves. Artillery and crossbows both do a number on these guys.

As a dwarf player, I also tend to have a bit of a conundrum when rock lobbas hit the table. They're not as accurate as cannons, but if you land a hit, you can knock out dwarven artillery, and the risk of that shooting often forces me to spend a couple turns knocking out enemy guns. Actually in general, I think of O&G providing way too many things to shoot with artillery and feeling overwhelmed- manglers, chariots, lobbas, divers, trolls, wyverns/spiders/giants.

Goblin blocks can also be a pain, because, again- with only single attack infantry, it can take a while for a dwarf block to make a lot of progress through a big block.

I think that's about it off the top of my head. Foot of Gork is a royal pain, as is Curse of the Bad Moon, and those spells that let you re-roll dice in critical combats (I'm thinking Ere We Go and Gork will Save Us? Don't remember.)

Hope that helps-

RZ

Thank you. I often hear mixed advice on fighting Dwarfs, and everything you said made sense.

And now some advise from an Orc player with some experience against stunties!

Doom Divers are more powerful - believe it or not - against the occasional lone character. I like to call them Goblins Snipers. That's what they are, really.

I admit I haven't been using Trolls much, but they are strong in general. Good value for points too.

Savage Orcs are the best against... well almost everything that is ranked up. Big Uns too? 3 STR 5 attacks each protected with a 5+ ward save are really mean! Most Dwarf units can hardly cope with them.

Black Orcs are not such a good choice against Dwarf armies. They tend to attract more firepower than they'd like, and their Save can only help them that much. Against Cannons, Organ Guns and the like, they are practically helpless. I'm not saying they're useless, but I usually at least give them a character with an Ironcurse Icon (6+ Ward Save against machines) for a little extra protection. Still against Dwarfs, I'd pick Savage Orcs over them.

As Red_Zeke said (by the way is this name a play on Cadillacs and Dinosaurs?) Wolf Riders are the best warmachine hunters. Or Spider riders in more forested terrains. Higher speed plus vanguard allows you to reach those pesky machines much faster. Sure, they fall easier, but they'll usually do the job.

Don't take a Giant! While I love the guy, (both as a model and as a monster in game) Giants are cannonball-cushions: they almost always WILL get shot down by a cannon. They rarely need more than a couple of shots. The Warpaint that a Savage Orcs Shaman can give them will add some durability, but how many sixes will you get? For more or less the same reasons I don't even take Arachnaroks if I can help it, even though I really like them.

Generally, big Orc blocks will do the work, perhaps accompanied by small Night Goblins blocks with a few fanatics around...

May I suggest wolf riders and spider riders for the flank attacks. Plus, If memory serves me, spider riders are good at sneaking through difficult terrain.

Savage Orc Bigguns. Horde. Lvl4 Savage Shaman with Shrunken Head. Add whatever the hell else you want because you already won.

For more specifics: NG units for Fanatics, Mangler Squigs (because they're more POWERFUL fanatics) and a few Rock Lobbas.

The Savage Orc horde puts out SO MUCH damage that even when you get it down under 30 models, it's still punishing you. Head to head against a Dwarf Horde with GW, even with kill characters, the orcs win every time. By ALOT. I've spent every bloody turn dropping stone throwers on them and still had them mulch everything in CC I had. I've flank charged them, and those 12-15 attacks to the side easily make up MORE CR than I gained from getting in on the flank. Add to that my buddy never rolls lower than a 5 on his saves, and what should be a loss by 2-3 often becomes a loss of 8 or more.

The Black Orcs I can handle with any unit provided I use some manner of thought and planning and matching character level.

If you took rock lobbas, I certainly can't afford to waste time shooting at the Savages until those WM of yours are taken out, buying your savages even more time to get into my lines. And if you take a BSB with the banner of speed and toss that in there... :sigh: Even if I get the Savages down to under 20, I still have Mangler Squigs and fanatics to deal with, and if I'm on my back board edge, when those Manglers hit me, I take 5d6 hits! 2d6 initial, 2d6 more because they were stopped by the board edge and hit your unit again, than another d6 in their "death throes." I may be off on the source of those d6's, but I know it was 5 of them. >.< The only way to reliably deal with savages was to GIVE THEM UNITS to kill so that they got redirected. It was that mechanic combined with the added numbers of random rolls that made me realize how broken 8th ed was (or maybe how out of date Dwarves are.)

TL;DR

Q: How do I beat Dwarves with Orcs?
A: Bring an Army.