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I am having a discussion with a friend of mine that plays Tau. He is convinced that a Broadside with multi tracker manning an Aegis Quadgun gains Skyfire
for it's railgun. I don't think you can do it.

The Skyfire rule states that "A model with this special rule or that fires a weapon with this special rule, fires using it's normal ballistic skill". The Broadside does not have the skyfire rule itself but the Quad gun does and the Broadsides' railgun does not.

The Muilti-Tracker will let the Broadside fire both the quad gun and railgun in the same turn and at the same target. However when shooting at flyers, the broadside will fire the quad gun at its normal ballistic skill and the railgun at BS1.


Has there been any consensus on this?

The quad gun can be fired at a flyer at full BS -- however the Broadside's railgun can still only snap fire at a flyer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For further clarification, see the Hard to Hit rule on pg 48 and pg 81.

There are very technical arguments going both ways. The consensus seems to be you can't do it, which I agree with.

Has anyone fully broken it down?

Only the Quad-gun has Skyfire. It doesn't transfer to the Broadsides.

There is a lot of technical stuff however no TO will allow it without a FAQ and there is no way it should be allowed for balance reasons. Now GW doesn't care about balance but without a FAQ I wouldn't try it.

RAW technically does lean towards saying yes but at the same time that means the secondary weapons on the Hydra also have skyfire since the main does.

It's a different model, so no.

Well thats not the issue.

While the Quad-gun is a seperate model it actually never shoots. It gives a model in btb with it the option to shoot the quad-gun. So the model firing is actually where ranges and LoS are measured from, not the Quad-gun itself.

The broadside's railgun would not get skyfire. The railgun and the quadgun are two seperate weapons.It is the quadgun which has skyfire which allows this weapon to be fired at normal ballistic skill at a flyer, it does not grant the broadside skyfire.so its second weapon fires as normal, which due to the hard to hit rule means it will require a 6 to hit.

A weapon's special rule will only affect that weapon, you wouldn't argue that a model which fires a bolt pistol and a plasma pistol in the same turn would need to take an armour save for gets hot! if the bolt pistol rolled a 1 to hit would you?

Huh interesting, I hadn't realized vehicles could fire weapon emplacements.

 jadedknight wrote:
Huh interesting, I hadn't realized vehicles could fire weapon emplacements.

Its still up for debate but technically it states a model in base contact may fire it so technically you can use a vehicle to shoot the gun as the vehicle has a BS.

ItsPug wrote:
The broadside's railgun would not get skyfire. The railgun and the quadgun are two seperate weapons.It is the quadgun which has skyfire which allows this weapon to be fired at normal ballistic skill at a flyer, it does not grant the broadside skyfire.so its second weapon fires as normal, which due to the hard to hit rule means it will require a 6 to hit.

A weapon's special rule will only affect that weapon, you wouldn't argue that a model which fires a bolt pistol and a plasma pistol in the same turn would need to take an armour save for gets hot! if the bolt pistol rolled a 1 to hit would you?

The Get hot rule specifies which roll to hit is get hot.

the Skyfire rule give a person using the weapon with Skyfire Skyfire. The SkyFire rule never applies itself to a specific weapon like every other weapon rule does, it just says a person with this rule or is using a weapon with this rules my use it's regular ballistic skill when firing at flyers, etc. if it wanted to be clear like every other weapon rule it should of specified. As it is now Yes you can use a quad-gun/broadside and Skyfire with the rail gun with a multi-tracker.

I don't like it, and how i would play it is that it does 'not' let the broadside fire it's railgun at full BS.

That said: RAW, it says any model which is firing a weapon with the Skyfire attribute hits fliers at their full ballistic skill. (note the conspicious absence of the phrase 'with that weapon', or somesuch) The way it's worded makes it work, unfortunately.

 jadedknight wrote:
Huh interesting, I hadn't realized vehicles could fire weapon emplacements.

Broadsides are not vehicles, but infantry.

 jadedknight wrote:
Huh interesting, I hadn't realized vehicles could fire weapon emplacements.

Broadside battle suits are not vehicles.

No. He's a spanker who's upset because he plays a bad codex.

huh. Spanker.

I'd never allow it. It's clear that only the Quad Gun is intended to have Skyfire. In a real life scenario if I have a gun that can shoot things in the sky and one that can't, why would the fact i'm using both mean that both can shoot things in the sky? The other gun is still a gun that can't shoot things in the sky, unless the rule specifically states that the use of a gun emplacement with Skyfire gives the model using it Skyfire. The argument has no logical basis when you apply common sense. Sadly, these days common sense is something I consider a super power.

In the weapon profile it lists skyfire and interceptor as rules for the quad gun. Therefore that weapon can fire at fliers normally. The railgun does not have the same rules therefore cannot. and snap fires

zephoid wrote:In the weapon profile it lists skyfire and interceptor as rules for the quad gun. Therefore that weapon can fire at fliers normally. The railgun does not have the same rules therefore cannot. and snap fires

This argument is flawed, not because it isn't logical (which it is), but because it does not reference the skyfire rule. i think we can all agree it probably shouldn't happen, but can you refute the actual rule which allows it currently?

This is a permissive ruleset- there has to be a rule allowing it.

Skyfire says that any model FIRING THE WEAPON WITH SKYFIRE attribute hits fliers at full ballistic skill. When firing the Railgun, it is not firing the weapon with the Skyfire attribute (the quad gun) and nothing says the model gets the Skyfire rule so snap shots it is.

Or, put another way, if it is firing the quad-gun, it must use the quad gun ranged profile as per the shooting rules.

 jmurph wrote:
This is a permissive ruleset- there has to be a rule allowing it.

Skyfire says that any model FIRING THE WEAPON WITH SKYFIRE attribute hits fliers at full ballistic skill. When firing the Railgun, it is not firing the weapon with the Skyfire attribute (the quad gun) and nothing says the model gets the Skyfire rule so snap shots it is.

Or, put another way, if it is firing the quad-gun, it must use the quad gun ranged profile as per the shooting rules.

THIS.
Read page 42, skyfire. It outlines 2 ways to fire at flyers normally.
1) The model has the Skyfire rule.
2) The model is firing a weapon that has the Skyfire rule.
The broadside manning the Quadgun falls into #2.

The fact that a model gives his special rules to the Quadgun shots doesn't matter. Quadguns are greedy and don't share.

-Matt

There is a rule allowing it currently: As per the skyfire text, any model firing a weapon with the skyfire rule may use it's full ballistic skill when firing at fliers. "...that is firing a weapon with this special rule, fires using its normal ballistic Skill when shooting at Flyers,..."

The broadside as given in the OPs example 'is' firing a weapon with skyfire (the quadgun), and therefore may use it's full ballistic skill when firing 'anything' at fliers. The model is given blanket permission to do this, it is not restricted to just the quad gun in the current version of the rules. It Should Be most likely, but it is Not Currently.

I'm with neorealist on this, I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to let it fly but it does appear to be raw.

I am confused. I don't play Tau so I am not up on their rules.

Are Broadsides allowed to fire more than one weapon?

That is, can they fire the Quad-Gun AND their Railguns in the same shooting phase?

My understanding with the Gun Emplacements, a model can either fire the GE or his own weapon.

Yeah they have some wargear that lets them fire more than one weapon per shooting phase. a 'Multi-targetter' i think it's called.

edit: looked it up, it's called a 'Multi-tracker'. i was close.

Yes, it was actually erratad that a multitracker allows you to fire two weapons instead of just two battlesuit weapons.

Edit: what is the past tense of erratum anyway?

40k-noob wrote:
I am confused. I don't play Tau so I am not up on their rules.

Are Broadsides allowed to fire more than one weapon?

That is, can they fire the Quad-Gun AND their Railguns in the same shooting phase?

My understanding with the Gun Emplacements, a model can either fire the GE or his own weapon.

The Multi-tracker allows the Broadside to fire two weapons in the shooting phase. However, Gun Emplacements on page 105 says that the model may fire the Quadgun instead of it's weapon, so I think it's more of whether the broadside can fire anything else while firing the Quadgun.

By that "RAW" a rifle dread in b2b with a quad gun could fire 8 t/l shots at a flyer all hitting on 3's. Don't forget how many "RAW" rulings got overturned in favor of RAI in the last few FAQ releases.

Ahh I see.

Now I get this debate.

hyv3mynd wrote: By that "RAW" a rifle dread in b2b with a quad gun could fire 8 t/l shots at a flyer all hitting on 3's. Don't forget how many "RAW" rulings got overturned in favor of RAI in the last few FAQ releases.

It's not the most valid reasoning to presume that RAW is specifically based on what is balanced and/or fair. If Games Workshop thought that allowing Rifle-dreads to fire a quad gun instead of one of it's own 'and' having all of it's guns benefit from the skyfire rule would end up with them making more profits at the end of the quarter? You'd best believe that is the way it'd be FAQ-ed.

 spears wrote:
what is the past tense of erratum anyway?

adds nowt to the debate but erratum is a noun so doesn't have a past tense in the way a verb does - we can say that an erratum has been issued (in the past) I guess...