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I've been seeing a new trend where bastions are becoming more and more popular on the Web.
Why? Other than getting a quad gun upgrade, what makes the bastion any good?
Seemsseems like an immobile piece if junk to me...


Any help thanks guys

It's a good fire point, a place you can hide your relic innside, as for orks i can have lootas on the top, it's armor 14 and not 12 as other buildings that's on the terrain, but as said you can most likely use it as a point of hiding a objective or relic, and you get most likely a good view of the whole battlefield from the top. awesome for sniping units.

I'd take a guess that, when 6th came out, everyone went "oh, everyone has melta guns, a bastions an insane idea, I'd rather have a defence line."

This was at the same time as, "oh, 6th edition, vehicles are rubbish now, I won't bother taking so many melta guns."

So, the pendulum swings back more to bastions.

Because broadsides, that's why. (not only, but they serve the point)

It guards the units who are immobile and packs silly-high firepower from being focused down by enemy guns.

Also, being able to place a LOS blocking piece of terrain is very nice.

Having an AV14 vehicle, even if immobile, for armies that traditionally don't have it is very nice to put certain units in.

Sisters love it for the extra heavy bolters on retributors.

I was thinking about using a Bastion for a 10 man devastator squad. I would have 2 missile launchers with flakk and 2 heavy bolters. The bastion would have the icarus lascannon upgrade. I would combat squad them and have the sarge with missiles on top manning the lascannon and the heavy bolters inside. The unit inside could also fire the emplaced heavy bolters which would give me at least 3 heavy bolters to fire from inside and the top would get me 3 sky fire weapons and 1 interceptor.

I am still not sold on this beauce I feel the aegis defense line is so good, but I might try this out to see how it works.

If you're going dark angels go all in with the Fortress of Redemption.

Bastion is good, because for 75 points I can complete hide a manticore.

-Matt

Fortress of Redemption combined with Standard of Devastation does sound rather gnarly.

HawaiiMatt wrote:
If you're going dark angels go all in with the Fortress of Redemption.

Bastion is good, because for 75 points I can complete hide a manticore.

-Matt

I would love to have the Fortress, I just don't have the cash to get one. To many other models to get. I do have a Bastion though and that will have to be my poor man's Fortress.

 Compel wrote:
Fortress of Redemption combined with Standard of Devastation does sound rather gnarly.

Except the heavy bolters can't use the standard and only one of the fortress pieces would be able to extend the 6".

Ok, so they are good fire points, i play chaos so obliterateors would be good inside it.

Read over the rules, i didn't see that it has any hull points, is this an over sight on my part, or does it not?

 zachwho wrote:
Ok, so they are good fire points, i play chaos so obliterateors would be good inside it.

Read over the rules, i didn't see that it has any hull points, is this an over sight on my part, or does it not?

Nope. Buildings are not vehicles, they don't have hull points. Glances do nothing to buildings. Check out the building chart on page 94 of the BRB.

Cheesedoodler wrote:

 zachwho wrote:
Ok, so they are good fire points, i play chaos so obliterateors would be good inside it.

Read over the rules, i didn't see that it has any hull points, is this an over sight on my part, or does it not?

Nope. Buildings are not vehicles, they don't have hull points. Glances do nothing to buildings. Check out the building chart on page 94 of the BRB.

Units on the inside take an automatic hit.

If there's noone inside, though...

Crazyterran wrote:

Cheesedoodler wrote:

 zachwho wrote:
Ok, so they are good fire points, i play chaos so obliterateors would be good inside it.

Read over the rules, i didn't see that it has any hull points, is this an over sight on my part, or does it not?

Nope. Buildings are not vehicles, they don't have hull points. Glances do nothing to buildings. Check out the building chart on page 94 of the BRB.

Units on the inside take an automatic hit.

If there's noone inside, though...

I believe that if there is nothing inside the Bastion can't be targeted (or at least it was like that at one point, I haven't been keeping up as well as I maybe should be). I just know that for a while there was a net-list for Necrons floating around that used a Bastion to hide Imotehk and a Chono-tek out of line of sight during the first turn so that the rest of the army (which consisted entirely of stuff in fliers) could stay in reserves. The key was that They were deployed in a corner BEHIND the bastion, completely blocking line of sight but not allowing the building to be targeted. If I remember correctly it lost popularity because the game was pretty much an auto-win for any army with indirect fire weapons or armies that could try to deep strike in the slot where you could shoot at Imotehk.

It's all about the FoR, nothing like hitting units any where on the board

10man noise marine squad 2 blastmasters lots of sonic blasters with a quadcannon :-)

sure you can fire at the bastion even when it's empty!

its just that you are unlikely to do much harm if there is nobody inside to take damage form glances and such...still might bow it up with you got some good AT units targeting it.


anyway, I would LOVE some DA player try the fortress against me. I would just bombard them with broadsides and hammerheads. (and my IG friend would basilisk them to hell...)

Really understanding the rules for the Bastion is a huge point. If you build an army with a Bastion in mind, it's quite a good investment in points. I'd done it with my Eldar and it plays fairly well. Albeit, there are always counters to it, but a Bastion is a bit harder to bring down than many folks think.

First, a Bastion is actually 2 buildings (see p95 under Battlements). I played against Bastions for months not really understanding the rules until I included one. Everyone played the Bastion as having a battlement, which is completely understandable. Additionally, p.97 gives a very detailed explanation of the Imperial Bastion and also describes it as having a battlement. Per the rules on p92, different buildings are treated separately for shooting and assaults.

Next are the firepoints. Each firepoint inside the bastion allows 2 models to fire out. Many folks I've encountered believe it is only one (see p93, it is in bold type). I've run 3 Dark Reapers/1 Exarch with Tempest Launcher,Crack Shot inside the bastion and they all get to fire. As they are elevated, their LOS is improved and I've found the target unit loses it's cover save as if it's not in area terrain or 25% obscured. This is a big deal with AP3 shooting. Also, the Reapers are Fearless while inside the Bastion. It has the Heavy Bolters, but they really haven't done much for me at all.

The battlement on top is where I will run Fuegan with a Quad Gun. Fuegan has tank hunter/crack shot. I've found myself going second in which my opponent has things like drop pods coming down to alpha strike me. While a Quad Gun won't do much against Space Marines, it can hurt Dreadnoughts and especially Drop Pods. Why shoot at a drop pod? Well, it generally guarantees me First Blood as well gives me a quick Victory Point (IE: Kill Point). I'm now up 2 points before my opponent has ever fired a shot and he had first turn.

Finally, p. 95 has rules for leaping down. This is NOT disembarking. Therefore, Fuegan can leap from the battlment and suffers a wound on a 3 or less. He has FnP to shrug it off, but if not, he is now able to shoot and assault as normal. I did this exact thing yesterday; I was facing an armor 13 dreadnought. Fuegan shot and blew up the drop pod. Dreadnought then fries several Guardians (8 for 96 total points). Then Fuegan leaps down and is in short range with his Firepike and destroyed the Dreadnought. That was turn 1 and he's already destroyed 2 units.

Are there downsides? Sure, each glance or penetrating hit automatically wounds a single model. I get to pick who has to take the save, however (see p94). If the bastion does get heavily damaged, I'm likely losing my Dark Reapers. However, you don't allow units to get that close on turn 1. I use cheapo Guardians for this so there is no close range Melta hitting me. Manticores hurt, but you have to remember the battlement and bastion are two separate buildings. When I've finally lost the Bastion, it is around Turn 4 and I think I've done the damage necessary to justify the points put into it.

I've run the reapers inside with a cheapo farseer as well sometimes for fortune/RoWarding. Sometimes Guide too. It really helps against those glances and low penetrating rolls.

They faq'ed the bastion to be only 1 building though.

Q. Does a Bastion have battlements? (p95)
A: Yes – see the rules for Fortifications, Fire Points and
Armour Values on page 97.
Q. If so, do battlements count as a separate building, or is the
bastion a multi-part building? (p95)
A: Battlements are treated as being separate from the
building itself, simply acting as cover for any models on top
of the building in question – see the rules for battlements on
page 95

Although that doesn't really change anything in how you use it. But since you're not 'embarked' on the battlements you're not Fearless and such.

I've had squads break and jump off (and mostly die) a few times.

Skyfire, interceptor, firepoints, heavy bolters, armour 14, and battlements = FTW

Should be a 200 pt model.

I've had success with the model. Also, great for LoS blocking and cornering whirlwinds and manticores. Additionally, opponents tend to heavily focus on it. This is good because its such a "cheap" option.

Wait, does this mean that if my broadsides blow up the bastion-the people on the top level (IE: the battlement) does not give a feth?

Because if so, I might pack on as well from now on.

No, they're forced to jump off the top of the battlements, plummeting to their likely death.

Page 95, last paragraph.

If the building collapses, any units on the battlements have to jump down, which generally hurts.

Especially on bastions due to the not insignificant height.

Ive only played a few games as im new to 40k playing Orks.But I really like using my imp bastion.

Now since im still learning about other armies and how to play I have yet to win a game( 0-4 now,hehe) However all of the games have been very close in VP count due to mainly to me always having control of the VP outside the door of the bastion

Case and point was my last game against a very well tuned Tau army( I hate shooty armys) I have a 1000 pt list thats mostly boys but I do use a min unit of grots as well as a min unit of lootas.Basically I keep the grots hiding behind the bastion on the objective I always place there and I keep the lootas inside or on the roof.The building actually has 3 ports out the front and back and 1 port out the side along with the emplacements on each facing.
So I had the lootas on the roof for most of this fight,craptastic rolls for them most of the game though even when I had 12-16 shots going out,ugg.However I did pop inside with the grots for a few turns and having that bs3 for 3 shots on the emplacements was nice,even got some wounds with em!
But basically my boys got the crap shot out of them(as usual,friggen oped tau!,lol)Though at the end my grots were able to pop out and claim the objective while my opponents last transport wasnt quite able to get there and unload is troopies to take it.
Im convinced that I would have been tabled if I didnt have the bastion.

 Shandara wrote:
I've run the reapers inside with a cheapo farseer as well sometimes for fortune/RoWarding. Sometimes Guide too. It really helps against those glances and low penetrating rolls.

They faq'ed the bastion to be only 1 building though.

Q. Does a Bastion have battlements? (p95)
A: Yes – see the rules for Fortifications, Fire Points and
Armour Values on page 97.
Q. If so, do battlements count as a separate building, or is the
bastion a multi-part building? (p95)
A: Battlements are treated as being separate from the
building itself, simply acting as cover for any models on top
of the building in question – see the rules for battlements on
page 95

Although that doesn't really change anything in how you use it. But since you're not 'embarked' on the battlements you're not Fearless and such.

I've had squads break and jump off (and mostly die) a few times.

Agreed that you are not fearless,which is why I run a fearless model on top. Leaping off causes a wound on a 3 or less. The faq states to treat the battlement as separate and tells us to refer to the battlement rules, which is where it specifically explains a battlement is treated as a separate building. Bit wonky in their explanation, but the rules are clear.

 Sarigar wrote:
Agreed that you are not fearless,which is why I run a fearless model on top. Leaping off causes a wound on a 3 or less. The faq states to treat the battlement as separate

It tells you to treat them separate from the building, not separate building. Major difference.

 Sarigar wrote:
and tells us to refer to the battlement rules, which is where it specifically explains a battlement is treated as a separate building.

Yup. Shame about the next entry on the FAQ that says battlements are not buildings at all.

BRB FAQ wrote:Q. What is the armour value of battlements? (p95)
A: Battlements have no armour value as they are not a building.

 Sarigar wrote:
Bit wonky in their explanation, but the rules are clear.

No, the rules are definitely not clear. BRB rules state that Battlements are a separate building. BRB FAQ states that Battlements are not a building at all. FAQ overrides BRB, so we have quite wonky situation where it is pretty hard to say exactly what rules apply to battlements.

Not to mention the rules constantly speak of units embarked on the battlements and then goes to list all sorts of exceptions to it to the normal building rules.

Why they just didn't make it plain cover to start with?