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Kroot Carnivores are one of the most underrated units in the Tau codex. They seem VERY bad on paper, 7pts a model for a guy with no armour but if you use them right they are 7pt tactical marines. If they start on the table they wil almost certainly die before they do anything; If you FLANK with them, (their redeeming quality is that they have infiltrate ) they can do very well. With Kroot timing is key. One game I started them on the field, they spent a few turns advancing and were wiped out in one turn by bolter fire, another game I held them in RESERVE then FLANKED them in and my 94pt squad of 10 kroot and 4 hounds killed 7 guardsmen, 5 tactical marines (in CC lol eat my I5 hounds, marines!) and put a glancing hit on a chimera (and that was with just 2 kroot hounds on the charge!!!) they can certainly be worth it. What's your 2 cents and how do you use them? and also can anyone think of an effective way of using krootox? they don't seem worth it.

Right now, I'd rather use krootox then a standard kroot squad. The are not 7pt tactical marines for sure, due to ballistic skill, and in ability to effectively take opposing objectives because of the no armor and T3.

At least with krootox you can take them as a home base objective holder, and but a IC in their (I have used eldrad before to great effect giving them rerolls to hit, and ignore cover saves. They become tank killing machines, and can still take down flyers with the rerolls they get from prescience.

A lot of armies have "bolters" but being on weak frames makes them more of a liability then a bonus.

Kroothounds are a nice bonus, and yes every once in a while the dice do favor kroot. I have also seen 16kroot bounce of 5 tactical marines due to armor saves and get run down after they fail their LD test, like they always do.

With 6th edition's "no assault from outflank", the best tactica to kroot/hound squads is "dont"

Kroot/ox squads is another story, as the ox itself is quite good, just surrounded by junk-until you realize that the regular kroots are just there as extra wounds-but even then, its just too expensive for what it does, all it takes to clear out that squad is a round or two of shooting from pretty much any unit in the game.

I agree that the no assault from reserves really hurt the ability for kroot to outflank and push enemy troops of of an objective. Right now I usually infilrate them into my deployment zone. Not as a screen for my army, but as a low-priority harassment unit, and objective holder.

Coyote81 wrote:
Right now, I'd rather use krootox then a standard kroot squad. The are not 7pt tactical marines for sure, due to ballistic skill, and in ability to effectively take opposing objectives because of the no armor and T3.

They're actually T4 but you're right they are a weak frame, you just have to play them tactically and they're still pretty good for the price...Sometimes

Actually disregard that, you're right they are T3 but they still have str4 and can put some serious hurt on weaker units like guard but now that I look at it, only situationaly useful

walkiflalka wrote:
What's your 2 cents and how do you use them?

Put them in front of something more useful than kroot (crisis suits, broadsides, etc) and force incoming assault threats to charge the worthless kroot instead of something they want to kill, buying an extra turn of shooting for your big guns. Keep the units small to ensure that they don't ever stay locked in combat, and to add multiple layers of meatshields.

Of course now that you have allies IG platoons and ork boyz are far better at this, so the only reason to take kroot is if you've already used up your allies slot on eldar.

and also can anyone think of an effective way of using krootox?

Nope, because krootox are garbage. It's a gun that's worse than a missile pod and costs a lot more points, so don't take them. Kroot should be kept as cheap as possible so that you maximize the table space occupied per point for your meatshields.

Ok, thanks for the advice and I'm also wondering what the best allies would be, I'm considering IG, and I was thinking of using a space marine librarian for buffs with a few squads of scout snipers to go with my ninja tau but I also used a small detachment of DE to quite some effect, a voidraven bomber, a venom, 5 kabalites and an haemonculi and the bomber was VERY effective.(plus the kabalites in venom killed the sanguinor!)

walkiflalka wrote:
Actually disregard that, you're right they are T3 but they still have str4 and can put some serious hurt on weaker units like guard but now that I look at it, only situationaly useful

But why do you need an assault unit to deal with guardsmen? Just shoot them off the table with pulse rifles.

Exactly, thats why I said situationally useful. Perhaps Kroot are just a meatshield most of the time but if timed right a large squad flanking and ambushing a squad within rapid fire range can wipe a valuable squad. I had 10 come and rapid fire 2 deathwing terminators to death and 20 could probably wipe an entire squad(maybe) they could also come in behind a vehicle with rear armour 10 and glance it to death. Also everyone says they're a suicide unit but when you bring them into 4+ or 3+ cover by flanking they do NOT die easy to anything... Except flamers :(

< Taken by the void dragon. >

Aren't boys cheaper to boot? and fearless if the are over 10?

< Taken by the void dragon. >

Kroot are x base, add three times that to upgrade one to a shaper and then add the extra point for a 6+

 spears wrote:
Kroot are 7 base, add three times that to upgrade one to a shaper and then add the extra point for a 6+

Which are upgrades you'll never buy, so 7 points per Kroot.

The post above mine was originally talking about the armour save.

Agreed Kroot have taken a big 6th ed nerf. They have lost out in pretty much every area. However I think in low pv games, say 750-1k, they are still viable. Their infiltrate ability is sufficiently powerful at these low pv games, and the fact that they score and still get the +1 cover save in woods means they still have a niche. But the fun days of outflanking and assaulting/glancing tanks to death are sadly gone(this was my tactic!). Allies are the final nail in the Kroot-coffin though. As the others say why would you take Kroot when Orks do the same but so much better? Beautiful models, rules in need of a re-tool.

Well people say that and yes, on paper orks are better but what if you don't want ork allies, I have a great list that has necron allies and I used the kroots to rididculouly good effect for what they are, I played a 3500pt game today and in buig games no one bothers shooting at kroot until it's too late and if they do, the kroot are still doing their job and being a distraction. In the game I played today I had 14 kroot flank one turn and rapid fire a squad of guardsmen to death, no one shot at them, the next turn I flanked another squad of kroot with 4 hounds and 10 kroot, who rapid fired a company command squad to death, then the 1st squad charged a leman russ in it's rear armour(it had previously been reduced to av10 by scarabs) then they glanced it to death. and the 2nd squad of kroot barely got shot at then next turn they charged a platoon comand squad and wiped them with the hounds. The infiltrate rule makes them useful but they are basically a 70pt volley of biolter fire.

Clearly nobody here actually does the math before they judge a unit.....at bs3 7 pts per bolter shot is still a lot better than any marine can provide. Kroot are like everything else in the tau codex a shooting unit. Keep them at minimum and park them in cover on top of objectives and they will usually hold it. Their biggest flaw is the leadership7 so if they get shot they often run. This is another reason you only invest 70 points into the squad and take multiple squads. I feel that they are right on par with fire warriors...which still isn't amazing. They are however dirt cheap and serve their purpose which is all i ask for in my troops.

As a side note, somebody earlier mentioned that missile pods are cheaper than krootox. 6shots s7 ap4 at 24 inches for 105pts is more efficient for tank bustin than any crisis suit loadout....even deathrains. They are also a lot more durable than crisis suits and taking krootox WOULD leave you some breathing room in your elite slots. The terrable leadership is still a big problem though.

Personally I don't use krootox because i never see enough mech anymore to require more than a few broadsides and hammerheads (Which are mandatory for tau anyway).Additionally I cant justify buying a buncha new models when the tau codex is predicted next up. I can however see them being moderately useful.

urza8188 wrote:
Clearly nobody here actually does the math before they judge a unit.....at bs3 7 pts per bolter shot is still a lot better than any marine can provide.

Until your T3/no-save infantry start dying. They might out-shoot tactical squads (not a very impressive achievement though), but not for very long.

As a side note, somebody earlier mentioned that missile pods are cheaper than krootox. 6shots s7 ap4 at 24 inches for 105pts is more efficient for tank bustin than any crisis suit loadout....even deathrains.

Err, what? 3x deathrains (with flamers) is 141 points for the same six shots, but at 36" with JSJ, T4/3+, and better accuracy. Adjust the krootox points to add 50% more firepower (what you get from the twin-linked guns on the deathrains) and it takes 157 points of krootox to equal the deathrains. So how exactly is that more efficient?

Also, you're ignoring the cost of the basic kroot you have to buy to get the krootox, which are just a point sink that sits around doing nothing whenever you shoot the "autocannons" at a vehicle target. If you account for that extra cost they are much less efficient than the deathrains.

< Taken by the void dragon. >

I agree with CHe-Vito, the kroot while obviously not better than crisis suits, do have their uses.

 Che-Vito wrote:
- the Kroot can score, while those suits cannot

But as T3/no-save infantry their scoring role is often theoretical at best.

- the Kroot have more ablative wounds, which can count for a lot (especially when in cover.)

But you pay for those wounds. While the kroot "autocannon" is paying for extra T3/no-save wounds that contribute nothing to anti-vehicle shooting the crisis suits are adding more deathrains which give both T4/3+ wounds AND more shooting.

As an objective-sitter, the Kroot can fill the role of a firebase in a mediocre fashion.

Key point: mediocre. Why settle for mediocre when you can have good objective holders/meatshields in allied boyz or platoons?

Because not everyone wants to rely on IG or ork allies
of course I say that but I might get some.

walkiflalka wrote:
Because not everyone wants to rely on IG or ork allies

Why not? Do people enjoy losing?

< Taken by the void dragon. >

I personally run 100 Kroots. I even have them fully painted and based. It's a lot of fun infiltrating 100 Kroots. Even more so when you have 6 Fire Warriors, Shas'el Warlord, 9 Broadsides, and an ally detachment of 60 Ork Shoota Boyz and a KFF Big Mek at 2K.

There you go, perfect example of how kroot have their uses, no matter what, 100 or even 50 will be hard to kill and people ussually don't even shoot at them so they force your opponent to make a choice, to either shoot at more elite units or let the the kroot do some damage, which is often more then they think. If kroot are in cover they are very very good.

walkiflalka wrote:
There you go, perfect example of how kroot have their uses, no matter what,

You really think that "I use kroot" with no explanation of WHY they're good is a compelling argument?

100 or even 50 will be hard to kill

Of course 700 points of kroot will be hard to kill, just because they're 700 points worth of models, but they'll be easier to kill than 700 points of boyz or guardsmen.

and people ussually don't even shoot at them so they force your opponent to make a choice, to either shoot at more elite units or let the the kroot do some damage, which is often more then they think.

You know what else forces choices like that? Units that are actually good at shooting.

If kroot are in cover they are very very good.

And guardsmen or boyz in cover are much better than kroot in cover.

I use my Kroots when I have no other option (like vs. Necrons, when playing Tau without allies) where my goal is only to beat the Necrons in CC with a massive Kroot unit, force them to retreat (and with some luck, catch the robots while retreating).

I also use Kroots as pure meatshield, putting them between Tau FW and any "potentialy charging enemy unit". As such, the Kroots give an added firepower (even if that's not amazing), give the FW a 5++ Cover, and either the CC enemy unit gets glued into a massive kroot pack, or they try to circle around us. Again, this is only when playing "Tau only".

Oh and btw, I always try to get those kroots a small cover, and boost their BS with some ML-hit left unused.

All in all, I usually play : Pathfinders <-> FW <-> Kroots <-> enemy. With 8 Pathfinders, I've got ~4 ML hits. +1 BS FW, +1 BS Kroots, -2 Cover saves if needed. And a nice shooting meatshield for those FW.

Ookami wrote:
+1 BS Kroots

Not legal. Kroot can't benefit from markerlight hits.