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If I have a squad of Dark Angels with Belial and a librarian in it(assuming the rest of the squad has inner circle), if the librarian uses gate of infinity do you roll to scatter? or would he just arrive on target without needing to roll?


Edit(clarification): because there has been some confusion, I am referring to using Belial's Tactical Precision rule not his teleport homer.

no he can not use the homer on himself

He doesn't need the homer, he has a rule called tactical precision that says he and a unit(if they all have inner circle) he is attached to do not scatter when they arrive by deep strike.

Gate of infinity says they arrive using the rules for deep strike.

Belial's entry says that they don't scatter when arriving by Deep Strike. Gate of Infinity removes a model if the Deep Strike scatters (and rolls doubles). I would say that Belial allows you to use Gate of Infinity without needing to roll for scatter. That being said, it's not something you should be relying on for your army since you have to roll up Gate of Infinity.

Not planning to rely on it, I was planning to run a squad that has both models in the squad(the librarian is mostly to help be a psychic defense), I was looking through my options of psychic disciplines and I like the telekinesis discipline, when I was discussing the idea with a friend the question came up and he didn't think it seemed correct.

I think the roll for scatter needs to still be made since it is part of the psychic power, his precision ability would not cancel out the liability of the librarians's power. However, after the roll is made (and if necessary casualty removed) place the models on the table as you please without scattering them. I think that is the most fair way to play it. Just my two cents...

To be uber mega silly picky you could say "using the rules for deepstrike" is not deepstriking so it wouldn't work, in the same vein as some people say resolve as a snap shot is not taking a snap shot.

However I would allow it.

I can completely understand why people would allow it, but I personally dont think I would. The power says 'uses the rules for deep-strike', but its not actually a deep strike. It is a psychic power that Belial should have no influence in, its all on the Librarian. But I wouldnt have a problem if people decided to rule it that he can use Tactical Precision

strengthofthedragon2 wrote:
I think the roll for scatter needs to still be made since it is part of the psychic power, his precision ability would not cancel out the liability of the librarians's power. However, after the roll is made (and if necessary casualty removed) place the models on the table as you please without scattering them. I think that is the most fair way to play it. Just my two cents...

I second this interpretation

 TheAvengingKnee wrote:
If I have a squad of Dark Angels with Belial and a librarian in it(assuming the rest of the squad has inner circle), if the librarian uses gate of infinity do you roll to scatter? or would he just arrive on target without needing to roll?


Edit(clarification): because there has been some confusion, I am referring to using Belial's Tactical Precision rule not his teleport homer.

Based on the ruling for Hunters from Hyperspace and Veil of Darkness (a similar situation) this doesn't work.

Ask at your loacal gw it depends on how your oponet precives it as every thing is up to them but a telleport homer states the same thing IIRC

rigeld2 wrote:

 TheAvengingKnee wrote:
If I have a squad of Dark Angels with Belial and a librarian in it(assuming the rest of the squad has inner circle), if the librarian uses gate of infinity do you roll to scatter? or would he just arrive on target without needing to roll?


Edit(clarification): because there has been some confusion, I am referring to using Belial's Tactical Precision rule not his teleport homer.

Based on the ruling for Hunters from Hyperspace and Veil of Darkness (a similar situation) this doesn't work.

The ruling that they do not get another hunter counter for using Veil of Darkness?. Would locater beacons work on gate?

Well. If you simply read what is written, well... It works! But you can't simply rely on it, since getting GoI is not that simple. It is so situational that allowing it absolutely doesn't seem game-breaking so go for it, if you have the chance to...

Also remember that tactical precision works only if the unit is entirely made of models with Inner circle, so no allied vanilla librarians

So if you GOI belial squad and they are shooty dose that mean you get to reuse veneful strike?

Well... yes?

I was not even trying to claim that part(that I would figure does not work like deathmarks), I just wanted to know if you could use Belial's ability if he was in a squad with a libby who had GOI.

 HerbaciousT wrote:
I can completely understand why people would allow it, but I personally dont think I would. The power says 'uses the rules for deep-strike', but its not actually a deep strike. It is a psychic power that Belial should have no influence in, its all on the Librarian. But I wouldnt have a problem if people decided to rule it that he can use Tactical Precision

The wording in the power then goes on to say "... if the Deep Strike attempt scatters and a double is rolled..."

To me this not only indicates that it is indeed a proper Deep Strike move but that Belial's special rule will also prevent the loss of anyone as the scatter dice would never be rolled. Unless it's FAQd to me this is a legal move, but again, hardly game breaking.

 Flinty wrote:
To me this not only indicates that it is indeed a proper Deep Strike move but that Belial's special rule will also prevent the loss of anyone as the scatter dice would never be rolled.

Or are the dice actually rolled and any roll that results in the unit scattering ignored?

This is very similar to the GOI and locator beacon arguement... Honestly, for the (possible) loss of one guy to be able to perform this maneuver it doesn't seem that bad.

Just use divination, it's better and you can avoid the subject.

Though I would say it does scatter and you don't get any bonus of vengeful strike since i think that is only from DWA anyway.

If this tactic holds up to be allowable, you could always ally yourself with a vanilla libby, no roll needed. BUT, Id still rather have access to divination.

 Texanity wrote:
If this tactic holds up to be allowable, you could always ally yourself with a vanilla libby, no roll needed. BUT, Id still rather have access to divination.

The whole unit has to have the "inner circle" rule for Belial to be able to do this, so no allies allowed and you're back to not being able to rely on it as a tactic.

@jegsar. its any type of deep strike deployment.