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Does anyone here have strong views about Northern Ireland?

Are you a unionist, who wants the country to remain part of Britain?

Are you a republican, who wants the country to rejoin Ireland?

I'm in favour of the second one. There's many reasons, but one of them is the fact that our greatest hero, Cu Chulainn of Muirthemne, came from Ulster.

"Hi, I want to leave the UK and its relatively thriving economy and join the rest of Ireland in the economic gak hole it dug itself in!"

Let me think about it, ExNoctLongName....

I don't really care, let the people who live there decide I guess. People on both sides who resort to violence can feth off though.

My view is that it's not really necessarily about the economics of it but ideologically.

Think of it like this: the entire east coast decides to jump ship from the US to Canada. That's what Northern Ireland is - historically important, in a country that doesn't care about it.

Ideology doesn't represent reality, and the reality is that leaving the UK would be a mistake.

I say not really again.

In the Republic, the Northern Irish would be represented equally. Their counties would actually have some weight - you're adding 8 new counties to make 32. In the UK, they don't really matter. The voice of the Northern Irish people would be heard a lot louder in the Republic.

Also, at the moment it may not be wise economically. But I seriously doubt that Ireland will stay in the doldrums for that long. The country's small, they can bounce back. They could Celtic Tiger us again. The GDP per capita in the Republic is actually higher than it is in the UK, even now.

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
My view is that it's not really necessarily about the economics of it but ideologically.

Think of it like this: the entire east coast decides to jump ship from the US to Canada. That's what Northern Ireland is - historically important, in a country that doesn't care about it.

What a horrible, horrible analogy. I'll leave you to your thoughts, though. Not getting sucked into this one. Ta!

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
My view is that it's not really necessarily about the economics of it but ideologically.

Think of it like this: the entire east coast decides to jump ship from the US to Canada. That's what Northern Ireland is - historically important, in a country that doesn't care about it.

Of course Britain doesn't care about Northern Ireland! I mean, it's not like hundreds of British soldiers died during the troubles there, or the fact that many of the people there want to remain British...

Right, which is why until recently the Catholics there had no rights and couldn't vote.

Yeah from the little my dad has told me it probably wouldn't make sense to do it...
That said he hasn't been back there for ages so maybe it doesn't hold true anymore.

For a start, Belfast isn't a bombed out shell

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
I don't really care, let the people who live there decide I guess. People on both sides who resort to violence can feth off though.

What the tusked one said.

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
For a start, Belfast isn't a bombed out shell

So I'm told.
Just adding Northern Ireland to the republic wouldn't change much...

First, it's 6 counties, not 8.

But recent polls suggest most people in the North support the power sharing executive and would prefer to stay in the Union. The unequal treatment of catholics was the big issue, once that died down, things have quietened.

Coming from the Republic, I'd rather not have the North back. It'd tank our economy something fierce I reckon. It relies on subsidy from the rest of the UK AFAIK and isn't that economically productive, as well as being politically troublesome. And I reckon the militant unionists would cause a lot of trouble in a situation like that.

I mean, you can go visit the North if you are interested in the history of Cú Cullainn or any of that. It's not like you'll be stopped at the border or something. I lived in Belfast for a couple of months and it's a nice city.

NI is still fairly pretty pro-union and pro-crown. A referendum at this point to change it would fail. If they were forced out of the UK and into the republic you would have a repeat of the troubles

Also, you could argue that Fionn Mac Cumhaill could compete with old Setanta for the title of "greatest hero". I always prefered the stories of the Fianna and Fionn to the Hound of Ulster.

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
Right, which is why until recently the Catholics there had no rights and couldn't vote.

When was this? There certainly was definate sectarian bias and political skullduggery to enhance the Unionist cause after the creation of NI but catholics have always been allowed the right to vote and were, at least in theory, enjoyed the protection of the law just as much as a protestent.

The division of Ireland was a hasty measure brought about by, amongst other things, the the Easter rising and the civil unrest that followed it and like any hasty 'solution' to a complex problem it didn't work as intended and created long term issues. This is especially true in a country with such a divided and bloody history as Ireland.

In reality Unionist or Rebublican is a moot point as the population of NI is split around 50/50 with a slight bias to the Unionist argument. As such there will not be the majority needed to democratically alter the status quo so in effect the Unionists have won by default, at least for the foreseeable future.

Personally I identify with the Republican side more but its not much to do with me.

Aye, the problem was more to do with serious levels of Gerrymandering and employment inequality.

Another point worth mentioning is that while the Brits get stick for their handling of the Troubles, if NI had gone back to the republic I have serious doubts the Irish Government would have done much better dealing with Loyalist paramilitaries.

To lay all my cards on the table though I am naturally more sympathetic to the Republican POV and consider Orangemen to be some of the biggest trolls around. But I don't have any really strong opinions about it and realise I am probably biased by my upbringing.

I say get everyone drunk till they don't care anymore.

I would be in favour of the UK just kicking them out all together, however ultimately its up to the people and so far they seem to have said no but some elements of society cant seem to accept people's decisions.

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
My view is that it's not really necessarily about the economics of it but ideologically.

Think of it like this: the entire east coast decides to jump ship from the US to Canada. That's what Northern Ireland is - historically important, in a country that doesn't care about it.

The east coast, while having a strong historical element to it, is also the primary location for the financial industry. I would wager that there are an awful large number of people who care about that.

More importantly, Jersey Shore. Americans would not stand idly by while losing their GOD GIVEN RIGHT to stare slack-jawed at good, proper orange colored simians who can't determine the proper orientation for their headgear in a true American way.

There would be war.

Da Boss wrote:
Aye, the problem was more to do with serious levels of Gerrymandering and employment inequality.

Another point worth mentioning is that while the Brits get stick for their handling of the Troubles, if NI had gone back to the republic I have serious doubts the Irish Government would have done much better dealing with Loyalist paramilitaries.

Yeah, this point exactly. The narrative appears to have been simplified for many into IRA vs British government, ignoring the powerful Protestant movement in Ulster that lead to Northern Ireland in the first place. If they'd been dragged into Ireland in the first place there's every chance you would have seen the same troubles, only with Protestant rebels fighting an Irish government.


The point is that now, finally, there's something pretty close to peace and stability, and it's a peace that's managed to last despite the financial problems of Ireland and the UK. Just... don't feth with that for the time being. In a generation or two, if the peace has kept, then maybe you can start talking about changing things up. But right now, just don't feth with it. None of it is worth the chance of more people dying.