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Has anyone done it? In any army really, it would be so hard to plan against, I know its not competitive but a level 2 doombull sounds disgusting

thats 100 points you are not using on equipment.

I've not yet seen any reason to buy a 165+ point L2 when I can get one for 100 and can take another useful arcane item, and in the last 200 games (well, since the item's inception, I didn't count them) only one single time have I seen an opponent take it (and it didn't do anything to write home about).

Sure, it's unexpected and can help you get a spell through but when you're L4 is done and you kept some PD, many people will either suspect you've got a bound item somewhere or not have enough DD to stop it anyways.

Like I said above it wouldn't be for competitive play and would be for higher points games mainly

Well, the Hat's manual is refreshingly short: Buy it, cast spells. I don't think there's much trickery or cunning involved.

Come to think of it, it's nice to have this item if you're a new player with little money and no wizard model yet (or just one). I gather you can also always opt for the sig spell, so with the right lore, you can make it a bit harder for your opponent to chose what he dispels.

Friendly games notwithstanding the only time I'd run him is in tournaments with nice and nasty points to give me a lord caster under level 3.....plus he allows you access to possible lores you have no other ways of reaching

I've used it with a goblin lord and it was very random. Thats what I was going for so it kinda worked out for me. Course i wasn't terribly impressive.... but it was fun and goblin-ish

war wrote:
I've used it with a goblin lord and it was very random. Thats what I was going for so it kinda worked out for me. Course i wasn't terribly impressive.... but it was fun and goblin-ish

Same here.
O&G characters are so cheap, I can squeeze an Orc Warboss, a Great Shaman, and a goblin lord with the wizard hat into the lord allotment.

If it was cheaper I would use it but otherwise I've never even seen it used.

If you're still playing the Gnoblar Army list, that is your only way of getting a Wizard!

Plus the gnoblar Lord only costs 45 points so its not like its much of an investment

And if you're running a gnoblar list most likely you arent running a competitive list

I've used the hat in my skaven lists for giggles. As Skaven can normally use only their two lores, it's about the only way I can try some of the rulebook lores. So far it has worked out well. Take a warlord, give him a shield and put him on a war-litter and of course, the HAT! 4+ armor, 6+ parry in CC and 2+ LoS! in a unit. Sure, he's only level 2 but he still gives you (random) options you wouldn't normally have. It's pretty in line with skaven randomness I suppose.

I've run it in a 1000pt list for lizarmen, this worked reasonably as a sauruss lord (sorry can't remember name) has access to a 2+ save and reasonable other options and saved me having to buy a skink priest. Also enjoyable as it was a themed army.
I wouldn't try it competitively because as mentioned if i want a lvl 2 il spen 100 pts on a stand alone model and it stops purchase of any other magical equipment,

At it's current price it means the Lord who's carrying it is otherwise stuck with mundane equipment, and is therefore going to end up only slightly more survivable than a wizard. Which is kind of a shame, as the I'd have thought the idea behind the wizarding hat would be to give it to combat lord, and be able to have someone on the front line with some spell casting to augment his combat powers.

If they dropped the price to 50 points you'd have enough points to gear the character up a bit, but then maybe that'd be too cheap for an extra wizard. Maybe the 100 points shouldn't count against your character's magic items allowance?

 sebster wrote:
At it's current price it means the Lord who's carrying it is otherwise stuck with mundane equipment, and is therefore going to end up only slightly more survivable than a wizard. Which is kind of a shame, as the I'd have thought the idea behind the wizarding hat would be to give it to combat lord, and be able to have someone on the front line with some spell casting to augment his combat powers.

If they dropped the price to 50 points you'd have enough points to gear the character up a bit, but then maybe that'd be too cheap for an extra wizard. Maybe the 100 points shouldn't count against your character's magic items allowance?

I'd say 75-80 would be fair, anything less and its an unfairly cheap level 2

Would you be able to stick it on the lord level warrior priest? i ask this as a friend plays a knight heavy empire list with 4 of them. You would still be able to give him heavy armour and a barded horse and i cant imagine his points would hit >250.
im just trying to suggest situations where the hat could be used.

There are lots of situations where you could use it most armies have atleast one way of using it (granted there are drastically more competitive choices in each codex) but I maintain in the right list it wouldn't be a complete waste of points, in comp I'd say it gets better still

 sebster wrote:
At it's current price it means the Lord who's carrying it is otherwise stuck with mundane equipment, and is therefore going to end up only slightly more survivable than a wizard. Which is kind of a shame, as the I'd have thought the idea behind the wizarding hat would be to give it to combat lord, and be able to have someone on the front line with some spell casting to augment his combat powers.

If they dropped the price to 50 points you'd have enough points to gear the character up a bit, but then maybe that'd be too cheap for an extra wizard. Maybe the 100 points shouldn't count against your character's magic items allowance?

But that "wizard" is going to generally be tougher, harder to hit (better weapon skill) and on a barded mount, decently survivable.
I'd only seriously consider the wizard hat in armies with very limited lores (like skaven and goblins), and those also have really cheap heroes. I might even try it with Brettonians and Wood Elves.
Grail Vow Lord/Wizard? Sounds cool.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:
But that "wizard" is going to generally be tougher, harder to hit (better weapon skill) and on a barded mount, decently survivable.

The wizard will in almost all cases be the same toughness, but have an extra wound and more WS, making him slightly tougher to kill, but hardly tough to kill. The only other factor is armour, which can depending on the army be up to 1+ for a mounted character, which is as you say decently survivable, but way below what most players consider acceptable for a character who's up around 200 points. Which is why the hat is rarely used.

I don't know I'd like a level 2 with a 1+ armour save although considering my main army is beastmen armour saves are anatheme to me

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:
I don't know I'd like a level 2 with a 1+ armour save although considering my main army is beastmen armour saves are anatheme to me

It's good too in an army where the general is more of a leadership general and less of a beat stick. O&G characters are cheap enough I'm happy parking LD9 in the back and keeping him safe. The wizard hat just gives him something to do while camping in the rear.


-Matt