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CSM Noise Marine Sonic Weapons ignore cover. I think they should also ignore invunerable saves.
Invulns are often provided by some ability to dodge or a force field. You cannot dodge noise and with proper understanding of acoustics(physics and aerodynamics) a force field wouldnt make much difference either(unless it completely seperated space inside from outside(nothing in, or out)).
Some invuls are granted to beings that are only partially in the material plane. If anything I think that acoustic weaponry would be even more damaging to them as it would wreck havoc with their attempt to manifest themselves in the material plane.
Even invulns granted by a gods favortism to a certain individual would be hard to justify, unless the god was healing damage that was taken(possible).

Massive chunks of material, like armor however are very effective at reducing sonic vibration and acoustic effects.

Now for implementation you could just say that all sonic weapons in the CSM inventory ignore invulns and cover, but I think that in future editions, Sonic should be a special weapon type. It should be applied to a whole host of weapons. IoM, Tyranid, Eldar(vibro cannon) and of course Noise Marines. Point costs and AP could be readjusted to account for this increase power. Perhaps this is something for 7th edition

You could apply most of the inconsistencies you pointed out to most other weapons too. Especially your last point.

I dont think they need to pen invuls.

A force field would be shattered but what about a storm sheld or a mantle
Look at ferrus mannus he would of died from a sonic wepons but he did not nor valkun nor corax so no I think for the perpous of it you can take a invun not a cover

I think most people who write the fluff for 40k have no clue how acoustics, let alone force fields, actually work. I do agree with exergy, but I doubt the writers have the wherewithal to actually figure out how those things work.

The necron lychguard shields locked together can take a defence lazer (Even says in the description of the shields). Yet that covers all of the model the blast but the force shield still works.


Yeah I don't see why this would break inv.

Bassline wrote:
The necron lychguard shields locked together can take a defence lazer (Even says in the description of the shields). Yet that covers all of the model the blast but the force shield still works.


Yeah I don't see why this would break inv.

holding up a shield of the strongest steel does not prevent you from hearing people on the other side of it. acoustic waves move effortlessly around obstacles. A shield does do a pretty good job of blocking light, you certainly cannot see people on the other side of it, similar to blocking a laser.

 McNinja wrote:
I think most people who write the fluff for 40k have no clue how acoustics, let alone force fields, actually work. I do agree with exergy, but I doubt the writers have the wherewithal to actually figure out how those things work.

Pray tell, how DOES a force field work? I'm pretty sure there's a lot of military agencies around the world that would be interested in obtaining said knowledge.

I don't really care about fluff justification, in game terms, nothing should ignore an invulnerable save (at best, re-rolls like the Swarmlord or Astorath).

Yeah, we have no idea how shields work and apparently, they are able to block flamers, explosions, bullets etc while still giving the wielder the ability to influence the outside. What does that tell us?
It may shield the user from all sides (so no acoustic waves move effortlessly around obstacles).
That the shield is not just some permanent, immovable wall that simply blocks kinetic energy (so it may affect warp, sound and bullets alike).

It can block sound because, well, it can.
It is as simple as explaining anything in a fake world: because the author says it works - it works.

Wh40k is no sci-fi. It doesn't care about why technology works, only about the cool effect.

How do we know how these force fields actually work? We're talking the 41st millennium, most of the actual force fields are alien in nature. It's not like we have actual fields right now that accurately represent what exists in 40k.

Also, do we have any sonic weapons in modern times? I know we have weapons that use sound and waves to break up riots and things, but is there anything that can actually KILL someone through visible sonic vibration? So how do we know that the laws of acoustics even applies?

Lastly, lets talk game terms. An Invul is supposed to be just that. A save that can always be taken. If we give all these weapons the ability to break Invuls, why even bother with it? No need to give weapons rules that won't always come into play, cover/armor saves are much more common than Invul saves so I don't really see a point in giving them a rule to make them more powerful against a set of units that the unit shouldn't even be used against. The sonic weapons are only AP5, so for the most part they will be taking their cover save anyway. It may work against units like Orks with a KFF, but other than that tell me a unit with an Invul save that has a save worse that 5+?

Sister Repentia. They have a save of - and a 6++
of course, they die is droves

While were at it, we should say that sonic weaponry cannot be fired in certain missions with no atmosphere (like fighting in space).

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Sister Repentia. They have a save of - and a 6++
of course, they die is droves

Hmm, you appear to be right. Sorry, I have never ever faced a SoB player so I never bothered learning their stat lines

Although, I don't think penning a 6++ is incredibly useful

 Necrosis wrote:
While were at it, we should say that sonic weaponry cannot be fired in certain missions with no atmosphere (like fighting in space).

And interference from Ork Waaagh!-shouts counteracting the sound waves.

 Necrosis wrote:
While were at it, we should say that sonic weaponry cannot be fired in certain missions with no atmosphere (like fighting in space).

shouldnt weapon range be dependent on atmosphere and gravity (or lack thereof)

The Vibro Cannon isn't a noise weapon, it's a localized earth quake. It should do more damage to stuff in terrain but for entirely different reasons than sound weapons.

 McNinja wrote:
I think most people who write the fluff for 40k have no clue how acoustics, let alone force fields, actually work. I do agree with exergy, but I doubt the writers have the wherewithal to actually figure out how those things work.

Exactly. Though from your conclusion I think you haven't got the foggiest. Compare sound to a light beam. Force Fields apparently stop light beams. Sound waves should be child's play.

Invunerable saves make no sense in this game anyway...

Please tell me how, a Aura of Dark Glory's 5+ invunerable save can save him from being Stomped on by a titan

Where a normal grunt would be crushed flat a 'hero' (if you could call a Chaos Character that) might dive to one side at the last minute. Or his body become ethereal for a moment, whisked away by some Chaos Power. Or become like a stone and just trod into the earth instead of being crushed.

 Bloodhorror wrote:
Invunerable saves make no sense in this game anyway...

Please tell me how, a Aura of Dark Glory's 5+ invunerable save can save him from being Stomped on by a titan

The Dark Gods will it.

 Exergy wrote:
CSM Noise Marine Sonic Weapons ignore cover. I think they should also ignore invunerable saves.
Invulns are often provided by some ability to dodge or a force field. You cannot dodge noise and with proper understanding of acoustics(physics and aerodynamics) a force field wouldnt make much difference either(unless it completely seperated space inside from outside(nothing in, or out)).
Some invuls are granted to beings that are only partially in the material plane. If anything I think that acoustic weaponry would be even more damaging to them as it would wreck havoc with their attempt to manifest themselves in the material plane.
Even invulns granted by a gods favortism to a certain individual would be hard to justify, unless the god was healing damage that was taken(possible).

Massive chunks of material, like armor however are very effective at reducing sonic vibration and acoustic effects.

Now for implementation you could just say that all sonic weapons in the CSM inventory ignore invulns and cover, but I think that in future editions, Sonic should be a special weapon type. It should be applied to a whole host of weapons. IoM, Tyranid, Eldar(vibro cannon) and of course Noise Marines. Point costs and AP could be readjusted to account for this increase power. Perhaps this is something for 7th edition

Is this serious? or are tou just not killing as much as you hoped with blasters and such?