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I'm drawing a blank here...

Can Deathwing / Ravenwing units (and their Knights) utilize the combat squad rules?

I did a quick look through in the rules, but couldn't find it... I must be blind?

Ravenwing have their own combat squads rule, as detailed on their page. IIRC Deathwing do not have that option

 whembly wrote:

I'm drawing a blank here...

Can Deathwing / Ravenwing units (and their Knights) utilize the combat squad rules?

I did a quick look through in the rules, but couldn't find it... I must be blind?

Page 28 for Regular Combat Squads

and

Page 47 for Ravenwing Combat Squads

Deathwing can't do it, and all units that can have it (and the associated page number) in their special rules section.

Thanks guys!

Regular bikes can use "Ravenwing Combat Squads" which breaks the unit up into two 3 man squads and separates attached Attack Bikes and Land Speeders.

Neither Deathwing nor Black Knights can combat squad though.


EDIT: curses, foiled again!

So, am I reading this correctly? Under the new rules, a single RW squad could now count as four units in reserve and take four seperate rolls to bring in?

Yup. And would be 3 separate scoring units as well if they are taken as troops and 4 scoring units on that 1 mission that allows fast attack to be scoring. It certainly helps in offsetting deathwing reserve units

 Flinty wrote:
Yup. And would be 3 separate scoring units as well if they are taken as troops and 4 scoring units on that 1 mission that allows fast attack to be scoring. It certainly helps in offsetting deathwing reserve units

Nope - the speeder is not scoring in The Scouring because its a Troops choice (not FA) and it is a vehicle.

 Lobukia wrote:
So, am I reading this correctly? Under the new rules, a single RW squad could now count as four units in reserve and take four seperate rolls to bring in?

Under the new rules? that rule is copied almost word for word from the last codex! The one change in 6th that made it better was that they are combat squaded before deployment so you can take a speeder with the bikes and still have the bikes outflank!

 Azrell wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
So, am I reading this correctly? Under the new rules, a single RW squad could now count as four units in reserve and take four seperate rolls to bring in?

Under the new rules? that rule is copied almost word for word from the last codex! The one change in 6th that made it better was that they are combat squaded before deployment so you can take a speeder with the bikes and still have the bikes outflank!

Page 23 in the old codex, second to last paragraph, would function quite a bit differently than page 28, paragraph 3 in the new codex. In fact, its basically the opposite... which is why I asked.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
Yup. And would be 3 separate scoring units as well if they are taken as troops and 4 scoring units on that 1 mission that allows fast attack to be scoring. It certainly helps in offsetting deathwing reserve units

Nope - the speeder is not scoring in The Scouring because its a Troops choice (not FA) and it is a vehicle.

You don't have to take ravenwing units as troops though and if you leave them as fast attack the land soeeder is also scoring. My post could have been a bit clearer though...

 Flinty wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
Yup. And would be 3 separate scoring units as well if they are taken as troops and 4 scoring units on that 1 mission that allows fast attack to be scoring. It certainly helps in offsetting deathwing reserve units

Nope - the speeder is not scoring in The Scouring because its a Troops choice (not FA) and it is a vehicle.

You don't have to take ravenwing units as troops though and if you leave them as fast attack the land soeeder is also scoring. My post could have been a bit clearer though...

Just adding to Flinty's post,
In the Scouring both Troops and Fast Attack units are scoring. Including FA vehicles, so long as they are not immobilized.

Correct, but a Troop vehicle is never scoring.
I wasn't aware you had the option to take as a troop - that's cool.

rigeld2 wrote:
Correct, but a Troop vehicle is never scoring.
I wasn't aware you had the option to take as a troop - that's cool.

If you have sammael or azrael then ravenwing bike units have to be troops, otherwise they are FA

 Flinty wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Correct, but a Troop vehicle is never scoring.
I wasn't aware you had the option to take as a troop - that's cool.

If you have sammael or azrael then ravenwing bike units have to be troops, otherwise they are FA

Context shows I was addressing the Speeder - does that have to be a troop as well? (Again, no codex).
If it has to be a troop then it will never be scoring regardless of mission type.

If you use Sammael and buy it as part of an Attack Squadron, then I'd say yes. But if RAS are troops, you should have plenty of FA slots to pick speeders separate from the RAS squads so they would be scoring for The Scouring.

A speeder purchased as partt of a RAS with Sammael or Azrael in the army is a Troops unit, so can never score. If it is in an army without these characters it is Fast Attack, so CAN score.

Gah... I'm obviously in pants description mode As noted by Nivek the only speeder you can get as troops are part of the ravenwing Attack Squadron. If the squad is a troops choice because of your HQ then the speeder will be as well, otherwise its fast attack.