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First of all, sorry if this issue has been already discussed on the forum. I don't know, as I'm pretty new in the forum. The main question is: is kan wall playable/viable in 6th edition? I already have a 1500 kan wall army and I would be pretty upset to hear that half my miniatures can't really be used. I would really like to stick to the kan wall and struggle to make it run good. So, what are your thoughts? Thanks in advance!

No doubt the wall has suffered for a variety of reasons. 1st being the KFF only buffing the kans 5+. 2nd only having 2HP. 3rd walkers suffering to grenade death.

This isn't to say the list is completely dead. I am like you and have a list of orks that basis itself on the kanwall. I have only run the list once in 6th and it still did relatively well. Since they are cheap units it's not all that bad once they start dropping. The problem is that it is a slow play. In certain missions it can take a few turns of running before your orks can get into melee.

It's playable in a semicompetitive setting and for fun but as far as competitive lists goes it certainly has taken a large hit. IG will ruin a kanwall relatively easily for example.

Before you lose hope give the list a try and see for yourself. I have only tried one game with them so I am not entirely sure how they play out vs all armies. VS IG I got beaten badly. The deployment was hammer and anvil so it took so long to get to them up the board and he had tons of autocannons which eat away HP quick. With only a 5+ KFF I wasn't making too many cover saves.

I've also considered only running on Big mek and then take an outflanking warboss on bike (with coptas) to cause some back field damage to buy time for kans.

Also consider allies. Guard seems very good in helping out. Melta, LRBT and vendettas are all great additions to ork armies.

Good to meet a fellow ork kan waller! I will try harder with the army list, thanks for your advice and time. Also important to say that I usually play against gk and necrons. That will surely add some new dimension to my question

A friend of mine ran this list for many years and it was always a pain for my chaos marines, if i ignored the kans they eventually got in close combat with my troops and it was over, and if i focused them by the time i was done with the due to squads and son awful rolls on the dmg table, once they were out the orks were already too close.

We had one game on 6th, the kans didn't make it to past de half table so i had time to thin down the orks and beat him. The kans definitively took a huge punch with the hull points. So i guess there are some better options out there, however picking them doesn't mean you'll lose for sure, only that you can no longer rely on them soaking fire power for your orks

If you imagine Kanz as walking artillery pieces with a slight hth ability, then maybe you can brainwash yourself into thinking their ok. Problem is all the Big Gunz version of Kan load outs are cheaper, have many more wounds at T7, and can get decent cover of 4+ rather easily in ruins or 100% hideable in the case of Lobbas.

Kanz got triple slammed (at least) compared to Big Gunz. KFF is less, big Gunz toughness extends to grots?!?! and only 2 HP.

For the third time in this post, excluding the slight advantage of mobility, BG's are better and cheaper!

Kan Wall has been very effective for me, it's all in what you match it up with.

9 Kans all shooting Rokkets every turn is still something people have to deal with. For 150 points, that's 6 Hull points of durability with 3 Rokket shots, AV11, and 9 attacks on the charge (should you get there).

I back it up with Lootas, Boyz on the ground, and a pair of jets. Sometimes a Deff Dredd or two, depending on what I take for Meks.

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In 5th, it got pretty goofy, the 4++ save was ridiculous, although, in my experience, the Kans were squishier back then, now you have to completely destroy the closest kan before applying results to the next one (5++ vs 4++ aside)

Gathering all people's point of view. I like big gunz indeed, but I like kanz too so I have a problem. And I suppose dividing points between them will dwindle their effectivity. It would be better go all the way kanz and dread or all the way big gunz and dread.

I was also thinking of harassing enemy lines by units such as kopters and kommandos. This was easier in 5th though, but I suppose two units of tl rokkit kopters will still be pretty ok.

On the other hand, allies might be good, but I prefer to stay completely green, just to prove that orks can win by themselves. Thanks everyone for your help and opinion!

grenade death is the biggest issue. You wont be able to keep things at bay on the other side of the wall so what is the point of the wall in the first place.

im tempted to try some shooty kanz using KMBs since they have better odds of hitting and are the ONLY unit that can be fully equipped with it so nothing feels like a wasted shot (Str 4 Burnas dont wanna fire at tanks, Str7 Lootas dont wanna get in range, and wtf would you put it on a Big Mek for?)
Kannons are damn nasty, Str8 Ap3 at 36inchs for cheap plus the str5-ap5 small blast option for troops. Issue is they lack the AP tastyness and mobility, killa kans can atleast move around the ruins and still fire.

I havent ever thrown together a list though so i dont know how expensive this would be. It sounds good in the mind though lol

i thought id bring this thread up again to see what a few more months of getting used to 6th has brought up.
is the wall still only fair at best?

The whole premise of a Kan wall is broken. Kan walls were useful in 5th because vehicles got a better cover save from a KFF than infantry did. So if you put a Kan wall in front, everything in the army would get a 4+ cover save instead of the 5+ the KFF offered. And if they tried to shoot your Kans, they had no choice but to go hunting on the damage table, which took a long time even for AV10 vehicles.

Intervening models now only grant a 5+ cover save, and KFFs only give a 5+ cover save to the vehicles in their radius. Furthermore, vehicles are now subject to wrecks by hull points, and Kans only have 2 HP. Basically everything that made the Kan Wall work in 5th is gone. They just aren't competitive anymore.

I have the rules for the Dreadmob if you want them ....

sure...

Shoot me a on with your email , I'll send them your way . The entire dread mob things I'd your army is fully customizable dreads

Corollax wrote:
The whole premise of a Kan wall is broken. Kan walls were useful in 5th because vehicles got a better cover save from a KFF than infantry did. So if you put a Kan wall in front, everything in the army would get a 4+ cover save instead of the 5+ the KFF offered. And if they tried to shoot your Kans, they had no choice but to go hunting on the damage table, which took a long time even for AV10 vehicles.

Intervening models now only grant a 5+ cover save, and KFFs only give a 5+ cover save to the vehicles in their radius. Furthermore, vehicles are now subject to wrecks by hull points, and Kans only have 2 HP. Basically everything that made the Kan Wall work in 5th is gone. They just aren't competitive anymore.

^ This;

Kannwall is broken in that sense. The unit is still useable, but not nearly as strong due to the hullpoint change. It is quite upsetting that most of the time they get glanced to death, where in the last edition you would cackle as they got shook all the way up until they got into melee.

Tactically Kans still work, but they do not soak up damage, and should be used more or less on a flank where they cannot be focus fired by multiple enemy units. I tend to use my Kans with 2 grotzookas and 1 big shoota still and use them as fire support for charging boys. If they boys don't kill the squad with the added fire support, then the Kans crash into the melee next turn and usually win the combat. This also can limit the number of enemy models that can attack the Kans which also increases their lifespan.

I've always considered Kanz and MegaNobz to be analogs more than Kanz and Artillery. If Kanz or Dreds could deep strike or ride in vehicles, they'd be more useful. MegaNobz are more mobile with their 2 dedicated transport options, get more attacks, at -1 Str. and have a much better save against 3+. The points cost are closer as well. Oh, and the number of times their WS 2 has screwed me over hitting and bein hit?!?!?

Mephiston can wreck a unit of Kanz without taking a single wound. It's happened to me on numerous occasions. Kanz are dead for now. What will the next codex bring? Kanz and Dreds as IC's? That'd be good.

For the same points as 9 Kanz w/ rockets I can get 9 big Gunz + 15 lootaz or 2 Dakka Jets and still have enough points to almost buy an ADL.

In either build (gunz/lootas or gunz/jetz) I have more long range shooting and a 4+ cover for the ground stuff ( like in 5th).

I think kans still have a place, the low pt cost and iniative order power claw are well worth it. They just need to be in a force which has more pressing targets, (Battle wagons bearing down sort of thing) and you need to use them sensibly.

Whilst I have not managed it yet, I like the idea of taking loyal terminators on with them. Power sword can not hurt them, they get to strike before the terminators okay they hit on a 5+ but if the termies have already lost a chap and the kanz charged.

What I do find odd is people not fielding loads of deffdreads. Stuff a big shoota and a skorsa and they come in silly pts cheap, when the loyalist marines turn up, power gloves are out of fashion, if they have forgot a melta bomb then they get 10 crack attacks, 5 hit, and that's not even a definite glance. I suppose its getting them into combat again that's the problem.