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Hi my question is about vanguard vets and Independent characters. The question is that vets for heroic intervention must be called before deep striking. If I deep strike a priest within 2" after making a heroic intervention then assault, will the priest count as being part of the squad because he technically moved within 2'' or will I loose heroic intervention which the call for it was already made before I deep strike them?

you join at the end of the movement phase by which time who cares.

Yes, but my question would be if they can still assault, would the priest be able to assault with the vets.

The priest has no permission to assault the same turn he deep strikes, with or without the VGV's.

Ok, but then since the priest is attached to the vets would they also not be allowed to assault?

If the priest arrived by Deep Strike, he is explicitly forbidden from assaulting that turn. Joining another unit will not lift that prohibition.

Yes, I understand now that the priest couldn't assault, but since he would have joined the vanguard squad would the vets still be able to assault, and would the priest be hidden from shooting since he is with the vets?

You may be able to get away with it if the vets are assaulting something really, really, really close and the priest just stands around like an idiot, but I doubt it. The priest is unable to assault, ergo also unable to follow along in a charge.

Heroic intervention specifically says the unit cannot contain any independant characters.

Slayer222 wrote:
Yes, I understand now that the priest couldn't assault, but since he would have joined the vanguard squad would the vets still be able to assault, and would the priest be hidden from shooting since he is with the vets?

Re-read Page 21 Left Column, roll charge range heading, 2nd graph last sentance.

This answers this question.

... Oh i see i though the priest was already on the board. If the priest is on the board you may assault (since van guard may do on the turn they deep strike). If the priest deepstrikes you may not assault as he does not have a rule over riding the BGB.

 Tri wrote:
... Oh i see i though the priest was already on the board. If the priest is on the board you may assault (since van guard may do on the turn they deep strike). If the priest deepstrikes you may not assault as he does not have a rule over riding the BGB.

The V V's can DS and assault, the Priest, if he was already on the table can assault.

But if the Priest joins the V V's the V V's are not allowed to assault on the turn they arrive from DS.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Tri wrote:
... Oh i see i though the priest was already on the board. If the priest is on the board you may assault (since van guard may do on the turn they deep strike). If the priest deepstrikes you may not assault as he does not have a rule over riding the BGB.

The V V's can DS and assault, the Priest, if he was already on the table can assault.

But if the Priest joins the V V's the V V's are not allowed to assault on the turn they arrive from DS.

Why? its like say a model with relentless must fire snap shots because the rest of the unit moved and doesn't have relentless.

No unit may assault after arriving from reserve. VGV has a specific rule that allows it. The priest does not. Heroic intervention specifically forbids assault if an independent character is attached.

oh i see but You elect to use heroic intervention before you deep strike so you are already using it so ...

a) you stop using it as soon as the IC joins so may run or shoot
b) you are using it so may still assault but may not run or shoot

Personally i think its too late, to not to use it, as you've already started.

If one model cannot assault from reserves, the whole unit cannot. No rules permit a jump priest to assault the same turn he arrives from DS.

 hyv3mynd wrote:
If one model cannot assault from reserves, the whole unit cannot. No rules permit a jump priest to assault the same turn he arrives from DS.

never said that ... read my posts. If the priest was on the table (not DS simply there doesn't even need a jetpack) and for some reason was within 2" of the Vangaurd after they chose to Heroic intervention, he would join them. Then it comes down to whether you think 'Heroic intervention' would keep working or not.

Heroic Intervention specifically prohibits the assault if an IC is attached.

 DeathReaper wrote:
Heroic Intervention specifically prohibits the assault if an IC is attached.

Does not, it prohibits the use of heroic intervention. Heroic intervention has already happened though, as you must declare it before deep striking.

Would you stop a unit of grey hunters from assaulting if the attached wolf guard fired his cyclone missile launcher? No he has relentless, even though the rest of the squad don't. In this case the van guard have all ready used heroic invention, all of its effects are in play. OR It stops working completely and the unit can run or shoot. As i said i don't agree with that way as the rule has all ready happened ...

 Tri wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Heroic Intervention specifically prohibits the assault if an IC is attached.

Does not, it prohibits the use of heroic intervention. Heroic intervention has already happened though, as you must declare it before deep striking.

Would you stop a unit of grey hunters from assaulting if the attached wolf guard fired his cyclone missile launcher? No he has relentless, even though the rest of the squad don't. In this case the van guard have all ready used heroic invention, all of its effects are in play. OR It stops working completely and the unit can run or shoot. As i said i don't agree with that way as the rule has all ready happened ...

Maybe you are missing what Heroic Intervention says.

Heroic Intervention says "This ability can not be used if an IC has joined the VV Squad" P. 27 BA Codex.

What ability? (Heroic Intervention).

What does Heroic Intervention allow?

The ability to assault after a Deep Strike.

Then they can not if a IC has joined them.

If Relentless was disallowed by joining a unit then yes.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
If Relentless was disallowed by joining a unit then yes.

If the unit fires heavy weapons they may not assault. Relentless a model may fire a heavy weapon, as stationary and assault. While I'm sure most people RAP and assault that isn't whats written.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Tri wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Heroic Intervention specifically prohibits the assault if an IC is attached.

Does not, it prohibits the use of heroic intervention. Heroic intervention has already happened though, as you must declare it before deep striking.

Would you stop a unit of grey hunters from assaulting if the attached wolf guard fired his cyclone missile launcher? No he has relentless, even though the rest of the squad don't. In this case the van guard have all ready used heroic invention, all of its effects are in play. OR It stops working completely and the unit can run or shoot. As i said i don't agree with that way as the rule has all ready happened ...

Maybe you are missing what Heroic Intervention says.

Heroic Intervention says "This ability can not be used if an IC has joined the VV Squad" P. 27 BA Codex.

What ability? (Heroic Intervention).

What does Heroic Intervention allow?

The ability to assault after a Deep Strike.

Then they can not if a IC has joined them.

Your also missing a point "This ability can not be used if an IC has joined the VV Squad"

You have all ready used it. How do i know this? "Before deep striking you can elect to perform heroic intervention" what time is it now? after deep strike ergo they have use Heroic Intervention. What does that do? Stops them from running or shooting but lets them Assault. The IC doesn't get forced to them until the end of the movement phase by which time its too late.

Right the ability can not be used if an IC has joined the Squad.

What does Heroic Intervention let the vanguard Vets do after Deep Strike?

It let's them assault.

Slayer222 wrote:
It let's them assault.

Exactly, and they can not do that if joined by an IC, as noted in the HI rules.

 DeathReaper wrote:

Slayer222 wrote:
It let's them assault.

Exactly, and they can not do that if joined by an IC, as noted in the HI rules.

use Heroic intervention ... fortunately they have already used it as it requires using before deep striking ...

edit ... and after using they may assault.

That is what is so tricky, when does heroic intervention take place (before deep strike) but it can be argued either way which makes this argument quit repetitive and annoying, but it's something that i would really like to know the final conclusion too. I know in a friendly game it usually passes but if i ever bring these guys in a tournament i would like to know what the actual result is. Thank you for debating so far but it seems like we are in a circular loop here. If anyone has any opinion on what the rule should be please comment.

I would check the permission to assault when you declare assaults. Priest has joined in the movement phase, HI is no longer valid, no assaulting.

 Tri wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

Slayer222 wrote:
It let's them assault.

Exactly, and they can not do that if joined by an IC, as noted in the HI rules.

use Heroic intervention ... fortunately they have already used it as it requires using before deep striking ...

edit ... and after using they may assault.

They may assault after using, But...

"This ability can not be used if an IC has joined the VV Squad"

Therefore if an IC has joined them they may not assault.

It is all right there in the HI rule.

Slayer222 wrote:That is what is so tricky, when does heroic intervention take place (before deep strike) but it can be argued either way which makes this argument quit repetitive and annoying, but it's something that i would really like to know the final conclusion too. I know in a friendly game it usually passes but if i ever bring these guys in a tournament i would like to know what the actual result is. Thank you for debating so far but it seems like we are in a circular loop here. If anyone has any opinion on what the rule should be please comment.

I do enjoy debating things ... there are two options it has happened so keeps working or it hasn't so stops working (ie may assault or may shoot run) ... ether way can be shown to work, in a TO it would be down to them to tell you how.

DeathReaper wrote:

 Tri wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

Slayer222 wrote:
It let's them assault.

Exactly, and they can not do that if joined by an IC, as noted in the HI rules.

use Heroic intervention ... fortunately they have already used it as it requires using before deep striking ...

edit ... and after using they may assault.

They may assault after using, But...

"This ability can not be used if an IC has joined the VV Squad"

Therefore if an IC has joined them they may not assault.

It is all right there in the HI rule.

It really depends on when you think they are using the 'HI' rule it. They use the 'HI' in the movement phase. At which point the unit may not shoot or run but may assault that turn. Please show where the rule tells you to undo this an not have used the rule? It doesn't. It prohibits you from using this rule from reserve with a character attached, not from using this rule and ending up with a character attaching.