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Hello,
these are my questions:

1) How does JoWW work on units on different level? do you get to choose level, is it ground level or is it everyone under the line?
2) Does Murderous Hurricane cause unit to move as per dangerous and difficult terrain rules even where there is no actual terrain like buildings or craters? Enfeeble says that unit treats all terrain even open as difficult terrain thus implying that it slows unit down regardless of being in actual terrain.

1) Everyone under the line.
2) No terrain is required for MH to work on a unit.

Thank you for quick response, Cheers

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505462.page

Current discussion on point #1.

 pretre wrote:
1) Everyone under the line.
2) No terrain is required for MH to work on a unit.

It is a line, not a plane. It has to pass through you to be affected, and it is specifically passed along the ground in the codex so units higher up in a ruin dont get affected

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 pretre wrote:
1) Everyone under the line.
2) No terrain is required for MH to work on a unit.

It is a line, not a plane. It has to pass through you to be affected, and it is specifically passed along the ground in the codex so units higher up in a ruin dont get affected

Just a clarification, it doesn't have to pass through you, the model has to touch the line. The line passes along the board not the ground.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 pretre wrote:
1) Everyone under the line.
2) No terrain is required for MH to work on a unit.

It is a line, not a plane. It has to pass through you to be affected, and it is specifically passed along the ground in the codex so units higher up in a ruin dont get affected

Where specifically does it say that? Because unless your codex is different than mine I can't find it.

I always used a ruler edge and held it above the board. If a model was under that line it was hit.

Where you are told the line extends along the board. Is above the board "along" the board? No.

Edit: to help, what you are describing is a *plane*, not a *line* - a plane is 2-D, a line is 1-D by definition.

So, you're immune to Jaws if you're standing on any terrain that holds the model above the table?

Huh.

 Cheexsta wrote:
So, you're immune to Jaws if you're standing on any terrain that holds the model above the table?

Huh.

That is correct.

That just doesn't make sense to me because the way it's described is like the ground opening up underneath. It just seems strange that a building would stop that. What if the RP is on a piece of terrain? Does everything else on his level get hit and the stuff beneath is fine?

 Cheexsta wrote:
So, you're immune to Jaws if you're standing on any terrain that holds the model above the table? Huh.

Strict RAW yes. Note that this includes any terrain, even clear terrain, that is above the table.
For example, because line is 1-D and JotWW specifies "on table", this means if you have cloth on top of the table simulating clear terrain, strict RAW JottWW cannot hit any model on top of that cloth.

RAI, I don't think it is supposed to work like that.

Luide wrote:

 Cheexsta wrote:
So, you're immune to Jaws if you're standing on any terrain that holds the model above the table? Huh.

Strict RAW yes. Note that this includes any terrain, even clear terrain, that is above the table.
For example, because line is 1-D and JotWW specifies "on table", this means if you have cloth on top of the table simulating clear terrain, strict RAW JottWW cannot hit any model on top of that cloth.

RAI, I don't think it is supposed to work like that.

The cloth example isn't true, the cloth is the board, the thing underneath it is the table.

The rules of JOTWW say draw a line along the board.

The board includes hills and the "ground" in area terrain. I can understand giving an model on the 2nd floor of a ruin a pass but if you are on a raised piece of ground or using a very sculpted board as in GW stores you don't get to say you are safe because the entire board is on a slope.


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nosferatu1001 wrote:
Where you are told the line extends along the board. Is above the board "along" the board? No.

Edit: to help, what you are describing is a *plane*, not a *line* - a plane is 2-D, a line is 1-D by definition.

pg 37 SW codex

 liturgies of blood wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Where you are told the line extends along the board. Is above the board "along" the board? No.

Edit: to help, what you are describing is a *plane*, not a *line* - a plane is 2-D, a line is 1-D by definition.

pg 37 SW codex

Yup, you trace a straight line, IE a 1-d object, along the board, meaning it always must be on the board level, Jaw's cannot hurt anything up in a building and by RAW it can't hurt anything that's not on the board, so a guy in a crater is actually raised up, meaning he's fine.

Thanks for the page number.

Liturgies - drawing a line, a 1-D object, along the board by definition means that you cannot hurt anyone above board level. You are claiming it is a plane, which is 100% false.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Liturgies - drawing a line, a 1-D object, along the board by definition means that you cannot hurt anyone above board level. You are claiming it is a plane, which is 100% false.

I'm not claiming it's a plain, it is a line along the board, the surface. If you are touched by that line you take the test. In a crater - hit, ground lvl in a ruin - hit, on a hill - hit but 2nd floor in a ruin - safe.
It is not a nova beam nor a plain, read the rule, it is along the board. Terrain is the board so unless your model is somewhere the line isn't touching it it is hit. The board isn't flat it undulates with the terrain you include.


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 juraigamer wrote:

Yup, you trace a straight line, IE a 1-d object, along the board, meaning it always must be on the board level, Jaw's cannot hurt anything up in a building and by RAW it can't hurt anything that's not on the board, so a guy in a crater is actually raised up, meaning he's fine.

A line along is't 1-D. Is a line on the road a 1-D function? It says a straight line along the board but not a beam.

Terrain is not the board. Rules citation? Terrain is defined as being ON the tabletop on page 90, first para, left column, and we know tabletop is synonymous with board.

A line is by definition 1-D. Dont argue otherwise, please. It is one dimensional, with the direction of that one dimension fixed as along the board.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
The board isn't flat it undulates with the terrain you include.

Really? Last I checked boards were flat and we placed terrain on the tabletop. 6x4 Flat tables (boards we play on) to be exact.

There's no rule in ANY edition that states terrain becomes the board. It's terrain that's on the board.

Page 89 shows a "gaming board". It includes a picture resplendent with terrain of different types, where on this page does it say that terrain isn't the board?
As per page 90 every part of the board is terrain as even open ground is terrain.

Page 90 does say that terrain is placed on the table top but at no point is tabletop and board made the same thing. Page 120 says into the gameboard when placing terrain not onto.


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nosferatu1001 wrote:
Terrain is not the board. Rules citation? Terrain is defined as being ON the tabletop on page 90, first para, left column, and we know tabletop is synonymous with board.

A line is by definition 1-D. Dont argue otherwise, please. It is one dimensional, with the direction of that one dimension fixed as along the board.

Rules citation for making jotww a beam, which is a 1D line.
A line is not just a mathmatical function that gives a straight beam, it also has a non formal definition. Since this isn't a maths text book we don't need to deal with that definition.

What, by turning a "line" into a plane, an entirely different construction?

Please, show ANY rules support for that, ANY at all. Otherwise you use the actual meaning of "line", which is something with only one dimension

nosferatu1001 wrote:
What, by turning a "line" into a plane, an entirely different construction?

Please, show ANY rules support for that, ANY at all. Otherwise you use the actual meaning of "line", which is something with only one dimension

You seem obsessed with this plane. 24 inches along the surphace of a sphere is not a plane. 24 inches along the surface of a undulating board is not a plane.
A line by the faq for this rule has width, that isn't a 1D object.

Google calls a line: A long, narrow mark or band

I understand your 1D plane, and am not arguing with it as that is how we play, but if you make it 1D you can surely trace any line from the top to the bottom of the model, and at any angle, so you can get the leg of someone on a crater, and the body of someone on the same level.

At nosferatu1001 btw.

 phantommaster wrote:
I understand your 1D plane, and am not arguing with it as that is how we play, but if you make it 1D you can surely trace any line from the top to the bottom of the model, and at any angle, so you can get the leg of someone on a crater, and the body of someone on the same level.

At nosferatu1001 btw.

True. The rule says touched by the line.

Yet the rule says along the board.

The rules say the terrain is placed ON the tabletop. Again, where is the rule saying that board is equivalent to board+terrain?

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Yet the rule says along the board.

The rules say the terrain is placed ON the tabletop. Again, where is the rule saying that board is equivalent to board+terrain?

Where does it say that the board is equal to the table?

It is clear from the rules that the board is the surface you play on. The rest of the book equates battlefield and board, the battle field includes the terrain.

Real cute space woof.

The board is whatever area the battle is being played on and this area counts as open ground. If it's not open ground, it's a terrain feature of some kind, be that a ruin, crater, hill or forest.

 juraigamer wrote:
Real cute space woof.

The board is whatever area the battle is being played on and this area counts as open ground. If it's not open ground, it's a terrain feature of some kind, be that a ruin, crater, hill or forest.

Open ground is terrain. Read the heading of the page it is listed in.
Also I haven't used Jaws in months so stop assuming a motive other than thinking you are wrong.

Well then if you say open ground is terrain that means jaws can't hit anything ever. Fun power.

 juraigamer wrote:
Well then if you say open ground is terrain that means jaws can't hit anything ever. Fun power.

How so?
I haven't broken any of the rules in my reading of the rules.