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Well I really like to look of WH 40k and I watched some battle reports, so I really think I want to get in to it. My question is should I start it off with the Dark Vengeance starter set. If I don't I will most likely just get some other Dark Angels people, so I was wondering if the Dark Vengeance is a good deal over-all to start with? or ?

Yes, the Dark Vengeance boxed set is a great way to get started with the Dark Angels because it provides you with a good starting platform for an army. If you are not interested in playing Chaos, then you can try to trade (or sell) the Chaos models for more Dark Angels. You can also check Ebay if you wish to add more to your army for not a lot of money, people sell the Dark Vengeance boxed sets in parts which can allow you to add to your army on a budget.

As for Chaos, you'll have to ask a heretic about that.

Really good set, I re-started with this set and even though I was an Ork player I've enjoyed painting up the models!

And the fact that you don't have to use glue for anything (so far) is a real bonus.

Plus, that Helbrute is a fearsome model, it would cost about the same amount as a Dreadnought when it hits the shelves and getting it in a bundle is great!

You get some really good Dark Angel models with this though.

If you are starting Dark angels you might even want to get two of this set, it's worth it's price! (more expensive to buy the said things seperate)

Hi, welcome to the world of Warhammer 40k. me and a friend both got into 40K. But have very different opinion about making the Dark Vengence starter box as the entry point.

I love to use starter sets. it is relatively inexpensive, gives you enough models to play and understand the general idea of a game. I would say if you are a first time wargammer then it is for you.

My friend thinks it is a waste of money becuase those models cannot be used on the army he likes. he doesn't want to waste time painting models that he will not use for his army. My guess is if you already know what wargaming is and what you are getting into then you can skip this starter box designed for new players.

id say get the starter pack trade for the dark angle models from chaos players

Like the guys above have said, its a great way especially if you want to play Dark Angels. Just sell or trade the half you don't want, or keep both to play some practice games to get comfortable with the system. And more importantly, welcome to the hobby, it's a great time.

Well, one other good thing about getting the starter set is that you will also get a mini rulebook (a "just the rules" version of the rulebook in a smaller format), dice (including that all-important scatter die), and templates. That, plus the models, is a good bargain if you are just getting into 40K--since a Big Rule Book and templates and dice would run you close to $100 US on their own (retail, that is). So, if you want to play Dark Angels, it's a good way to get into it.

As everyone else has said, you can sell or trade off the models you do not want to use.

Also, Dark Angels and Chaos Marines both got shiny new books recently, and have lots of new toys to play with. So, you might try playing both armies and see if you want to do Dark Angels or if you like Chaos. Or both.

definately get the set. They really are the gold studs of GW. I sold the space marines in my black reach for 400dhs (£60), and this starter looks even better for that.

So, the other way you can go with this is instead of buying a starter set, you can buy the Dark Angel's half of someone else's starter set.

There are certainly people who bought dark vengeance for the chaos bitz, and are willing to offload the DA stuff for cheap, and that saves you the effort of having to sell chaos stuff yourself. Plus, it's not that hard to find a copy of the DV rule book for cheap on the internet.

Save your cultists, if you can. They make great gangers for Necromunda.

Thanks for all of the comments! I just got it and am just starting reading the rules and stuff.


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I think I'm going to learn it with a friend so I won't sell the chaos part and so I will have a equal partner when playing.

For someone completely new to the game, I'd say the box is actually best for the 3 things not mentioned so far, that would otherwise cost you a bit extra to obtain:

1) the scatter die (otherwise only available in a full dice box, though this is worth getting for bigger games)
2) the blast templates (£8 in the UK to get these separately!!)
3) the quick reference sheets, which are a LOT quicker than flicking through the rulebook for things we veterans take for granted, like the ToHit chart.

I'm looking at some of the Dark Angels, and I'm seeing a lot of people with a few feathers. Are they like a medal, or is a like a trophy of some sort. This is a small question but I'm just wondering.

Sort of yeah. They're a Dark Angelified purity seal

One quick thing, If you want to hang on to the Chaos Bits to play with friends, I would recommend getting some other Chaos guys.

You'll notice, that after you peruse the respective codexes, the chaos guys end up at a lot less points than the Dark Angels force contained in the Dark Vengence kit. What this ultimately will mean is that if you set up a traditional battle between the 2 forces the Chaos will be at a sever disadvantage just because they are playing with a lot less points.

I apologize if this is obvious to you but here is a brief explanation.

The game is essentially balanced around points, a powerful model will cost a lot more points than a weaker model, and a game will typically be between armies of equal starting points. Go to the army list section and you'll see that everybody has a list built up to a certain limit (like 1000 points) where all the models in their army total up to that limit or less.

A terminator with 4s across the statline, a 2+ armor save, a storm bolter and 2+ armor save w/ 5+ invulnerable save generally costs around 40 points.
A cultist by comparison with 3s across the statline, and a 6+ armor save costs 4 points each.
Ultimately the Chaos forces have markedly lower point total then the DA, which puts them at a disadvatage in non specific match ups.

The Dark Vengence scenarios however are generally designed to give both sides an equal chance at victory, but if you play book missions the Chaos will get severely trounced. This is because the Dark Vengence specific missions heavily favor the chaos player to help him overcome his lower point total worth of units.

I only mention this because because you said you were interested in having an "equal" partner in playing! So if you do plan on playing book missions you'll need some additional chaos models to get them up to an equal point total with the Dark Angels. I cannot remember exactly what the deficiency is off hand though.

I'd only buy Dark Vengence if you want to play one of the armies within and have someone interested in the other half.

The issue with Dark Vengence for Dark Angels is that it has units for Ravenwing, Deathwing, and a Tac squad. Tac squads are ok for DAs, but if you want to play Tac squads you are better off playing Vanilla marines. If you want to play DAs you want to play either Deathwing and/or Ravenwing. So the Tac squad and Captain kinda end up being deadweight, although the Captain can be a good alternate model for Azrael.

Thanks but for right now (cause I'm broke :3) is there a few DAs I can kept out of the fight to make it even?


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And does any one know the specific points of both armies?

It's roughly 400 chaos

600 Dark Angels

The thing is some of the Dark Angels deferred to chaos during the heresy so if you wanted to you could paint the DA a little more chaosy and run them as newly recruited servants of the dark gods

So what unit(s) of dark angels could I take out for 200 points and still be able to do well?

Dark Vengence is an all-Heretic box set really. If heresy is your thing by all means pick it up and report to your local Commissar.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Tac squads are ok for DAs, but if you want to play Tac squads you are better off playing Vanilla marines. If you want to play DAs you want to play either Deathwing and/or Ravenwing.

I am going to have to disagree on this one. Please explain your reasoning, as I hear this alot about DA vs Vanilla, and I feel that it's just absurd.
Cheaper per model, upgrades that are unavailable to vanilla. Cool banners that make tac marines amazing (hello 4 bolter shots/turn)

Insane Smile wrote:
So what unit(s) of dark angels could I take out for 200 points and still be able to do well?

If you are interested in starting Dark Angels, pick up the Codex as well and then you can see the points values and use their special rules. If you want to start with just the box, stick with the DV missions and maybe trade forces with your friend? Which means run through the missions then trade, you play the other side. It is a bit stacked in the DA's favour.

Otherwise, don't use the Captain, Librarian and Chaplain-Interrogator (if you have him) all at the same. I don't know about the DA points values (haven't bought the book), but each HQ is about 100 ish points depending on what you give them. Someone else could give you specifics, but that would break the rules sadly.

Just remember the starter boxes are built to get you to want to buy more. So while you can make a solid DA force with the box, you will want to buy more. Most likely more TDA or Bikes, so if your friend really gets into it (and likes chaos) they can buy a set as well, which will give you both the rules, scatter dice and blast markers (as someone mentioned above) plus you can get more DA!

10 termies, 6 bikes, 10 tacticals and a counts as Azrael might be a fun casual force to start with! I am sure some Unforgiven on here could give you more advice on starting a DA army specifically.

Who are the vanilla?

 nolzur wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Tac squads are ok for DAs, but if you want to play Tac squads you are better off playing Vanilla marines. If you want to play DAs you want to play either Deathwing and/or Ravenwing.

I am going to have to disagree on this one. Please explain your reasoning, as I hear this alot about DA vs Vanilla, and I feel that it's just absurd.
Cheaper per model, upgrades that are unavailable to vanilla. Cool banners that make tac marines amazing (hello 4 bolter shots/turn)

The main benefit for Vanilla over DA is chapter tactics. It is just a very useful rule.

Other than that DA are better because they cost less and Dakka Banner

Insane Smile wrote:
Who are the vanilla?

Anything that uses the "Space Marines" codex.

If I take out the squad of deathwing will that make the teams even point values or how close would they bring?

From the DV Termi's you're looking at 245 points (CF, AC).

For dark angels it's a great starter pack. For chaos not really because helbrutes & chosen aren't exactly good units.

Ofc, both the DA and the CSM can be converted to be used as something else entirely. For example, I've converted my DA into standard vanilla marines (filed off the most visible parts of their chapter-specific bling).

It's an okay started pack but considering you already bought it i guess it wouldn't matter what i say.

I only started about 2 months ago and I AM LOVING IT. But, i've bought alot of stuff since then to add to my army:

Codex DA
2 x Deathwing Command squads
1 x Terminator squad
Belial
2 x Ven. Dread.
1 x Drop pod

Think of the box set as more of a guide. You get some termies and some tac squads which is pretty good i guess, but you don't get any special weapons!

By the way, i think its still good to have 1 or 2 tac squads in your army (assuming this is a game of 1850 points). They can hold objectives whilst your other units move up to take objectives. You don't really want your termies or bikes (depending on what HQ you have) to be just sitting on an objective chillin'.