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I'm thinking about a space fleet based miniature war game. I wanted to know what people thought.

So my questions are as follows what would you like to see as far as combat goes. How many ships would you like to field?

Would fighters / flyers be a part of the make up?

Would you like to see steam punk ships, energy ships, startrek like ships, battlefleet gothic type ships or mass effect style ships?

What scale would you like to see?

Faster then light travel, warp drive, folding space? what would make your ideal starship go?

How many weapons and upgrades would you like on a ship? Should they be exaggerated or tiny ? Would they be chemical or energy based?

Fleet based combat or Mother ship and fighters drones ect.

Races what would like to see?

Bulky armor like space marines or subtle ?

Do you think that trading, and diplomacy could fit into a miniature war game? i.e tokens, trading cards ect.

Dice format D20? Or D6.

Anyways let me know what you think.

Alright, first of all, release a first ruleset. Most games developers will go through a basic alpha version based off the designer's brief, after researching the market, then put it through testing.

So, research the market, hand out a basic set of rules, then start asking questions.

Feel free to PM me or check out my own little game if you want any help.


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Also, how dedicated are you to this? It's very unlikely it'll support you financially, it takes lots of time, and is frankly thankless.

I'd like a ruleset to create your own fleet, like really design them to your own personal idea's and each skill you give the ship costs a certain amount of points
certain skills available to certain classes, etc

 BlapBlapBlap wrote:
Alright, first of all, release a first ruleset. Most games developers will go through a basic alpha version based off the designer's brief, after researching the market, then put it through testing.

So, research the market, hand out a basic set of rules, then start asking questions.

Feel free to PM me or check out my own little game if you want any help.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, how dedicated are you to this? It's very unlikely it'll support you financially, it takes lots of time, and is frankly thankless.

I'm not even heading for a rule-set anytime soon. Basically looking for popular ideas what the community would like to see. Mostly just visuals ideas of what a ship might look like at this point. Consider it a fantasy foot ball team, but a space battle miniature war-game

.


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 Rainbow Dash wrote:
I'd like a ruleset to create your own fleet, like really design them to your own personal idea's and each skill you give the ship costs a certain amount of points
certain skills available to certain classes, etc

could you elaborate? What kind of upgrades and classes would you like to see? What type of weapons would you use? Technology? Ect?

well I have a whole bunch of idea's story wise, and a few game wise, if you are really interested we could have a chat about it and who knows maybe create something cool

It really is quite important. All you've done is say what game you want to make and asked loads of questions.

Research rules of other games, make a base set, then ask the questions. Otherwise, you really don't have any idea what you're going to do, and we can't help you as much as possible.

 BlapBlapBlap wrote:
It really is quite important. All you've done is say what game you want to make and asked loads of questions.

Research rules of other games, make a base set, then ask the questions. Otherwise, you really don't have any idea what you're going to do, and we can't help you as much as possible.

I will very much disagree with you. I'm asking dakka not just you. For ideas. And I do have a lot of ideas of what I'm going to do.

Please don't be condescending I know what I have in mind. This is not the time to post any proposed rule sets. Once again this is simply about aesthetics and flavor context.

To further elaborate the game rulset is NOT being addressed. In this post.

I am out of curiosity looking for additional ideas.

What you have said is very limiting and if people get a hint of band wagon syndrome possibly very damaging to the rest of the post. Just because you're opionon seem the most correct to you. Does not make it applicable to anything that I have in mind.

The idea is to gather information about aesthetics and universe flavor. Do people want to see Grimm Dark or Startrek ? Do they want RPG elements card elements ect? What kind of options.

You can't help me because you have put it in your mind not to do so. Yet I have already gathered information from one other poster about options, upgrades ect.

I apologize if you found that offensive. But it's clearly not helping my post. Please delete it if you can.

OK, OK, I was slightly rash, but you aren't just asking background questions.

Anyway, my ideal background would be Sci-Fi Space Pirates. Maybe you could make something like Risk/Sins of a Solar Empire, with planetary empires for the more strategic parts, and fleets for board fights?

I think aesthetics can be a large part of the appeal of a game... but the underlying ruleset will be the difference between snaring in customers for the long haul or not.

I suggest you take a look at Full Thrust and More Thrust. The ideas are good, but the system is, to me clunky and in need of refinement, as well as more options.

Do you have a basic idea? because depending on the background and technology the whole game dynamics changes.
Will it be humans versus humans? (like gundam?) humans versus aliens? (macross?) hi-tech, low tech, realistic? 2D or 3D?

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
2D or 3D?

Remember, this is HUGE in starship wargames. It'll affect how ships move, weapons fire, targeting arcs, etc.

 Rainbow Dash wrote:
I'd like a ruleset to create your own fleet, like really design them to your own personal idea's and each skill you give the ship costs a certain amount of points
certain skills available to certain classes, etc

Look up the rules for full thrust http://shop.groundzerogames.net/index.php?_a=viewCat&catId=130
should meet your needs

 BlapBlapBlap wrote:
Alright, first of all, release a first ruleset. Most games developers will go through a basic alpha version based off the designer's brief, after researching the market, then put it through testing.

So, research the market, hand out a basic set of rules, then start asking questions.

Feel free to PM me or check out my own little game if you want any help.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, how dedicated are you to this? It's very unlikely it'll support you financially, it takes lots of time, and is frankly thankless.

I will not release a rule set yet because personal reasons. Once again if you read other posts. This is to gather flavor context about the universe and what people want to see.


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 infinite_array wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
2D or 3D?

Remember, this is HUGE in starship wargames. It'll affect how ships move, weapons fire, targeting arcs, etc.

Ship Combat will be 2D. 3D combat will be impossible to simulate with this game. Top down or birds eye view.

For 3d rules I would look at Saganami Island Game based on the Honour Harrington universe. Does it well but in my opinion too complicated for regular casual play. My game of choice is Full Thrust. It has everything I'm looking for: hard scifi default background, customizable building system,dozens of weapons types, multiple movement types including vector based, ties in with both of their ground combat systems. Hard to beat for a casual gamer like myself.

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Do you have a basic idea? because depending on the background and technology the whole game dynamics changes.
Will it be humans versus humans? (like gundam?) humans versus aliens? (macross?) hi-tech, low tech, realistic? 2D or 3D?

I have much more then a basic Idea.

Like macross mechs will be used. Fighters and motherships. Away missions like startrek. Rpg elements. Wargame elements.

Each race will have a different flavor. Some gritty, some sleek, others functional, ect.

Diogenesethedog wrote:
This is to gather flavor context about the universe and what people want to see.

To be honest, if the game isn't a game that YOU want to see made, then I doubt you'll have the passion and motivation to see it through to a point where anybody else will give it a look. When I write a ruleset it's because I've had a few ideas for rule mechanics and how they relate to each other, and I attempt to codify that and expand on it until it becomes something recognisable as a game.

3D combat will be impossible to simulate with this game.

You haven't got any rules yet, how can you say simulating 3D will be impossible? Challenging, certainly, but impossible?

Alright then, could you tell us what you have planned in terms of fluff so far? Just asking loads of people what they want in an empty template is very difficult to sift through. You'll get so many conflicting opinions it'll be incredibly difficult.

Just my personal opinion, adapting fluff is ultimately more pleasant and easier than making it on what people want, as it might not be preferential to you.


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Diogenesethedog wrote:
Ship Combat will be 2D. 3D combat will be impossible to simulate with this game. Top down or birds eye view.

Sorry, this is my point. Until you've actually tried or shown us your reasoning, that's a very ignorant statement.

You could have counters for height that might change the game, i.e. different mounting points and weapon rotations, as well as different armour facings.

If you're asking for fluff, clearly explain that. Simply tell people that 'I haven't got anything prepared yet, I'm just looking for help with fluff.' or something.

In space combat 3D maneuvering is pointless unless you're doing vector physics, and even then... the "vertical" separation in space is infinite (vs finite separation in atmosphere), but given that in space the range of a weapon system is effectively infinite anyway, you can reasonably abstract combatants locations onto a 2dimensional surface. The only aspect of 3d that really comes into play is weapon arcs, but Firestorm Armada, as much as I hate the game, had a simple but elegant solution: allow the ship to "roll over" to present the opposite firing arc to the enemy.

Something scalable between single flighters and capital ship fleet combat would be interesting. Also rules that allow different styles of combat - hide and seek ambushes (perhaps using false sensor return tokens/hidden deployment/etc), massed fleets in open space, planetary defense, etc.

In terms of tech levels, something akin to 40k's mix of "traditional" solid shot, emergy and plasma weapons, as well as solid armour and energy shields.

Also, inertia and so on should really be a part of the rules if possible, though perhaps limited to the advanced rules section if people just want to play a simpler game.

I also really like the idea of being able to design ships and races. Perhaps using a points pool for race/ship attributes and different point allowances for "epic" and "low" level games.

 SilverMK2 wrote:
Something scalable between single flighters and capital ship fleet combat would be interesting. Also rules that allow different styles of combat - hide and seek ambushes (perhaps using false sensor return tokens/hidden deployment/etc), massed fleets in open space, planetary defense, etc.

In terms of tech levels, something akin to 40k's mix of "traditional" solid shot, emergy and plasma weapons, as well as solid armour and energy shields.

Also, inertia and so on should really be a part of the rules if possible, though perhaps limited to the advanced rules section if people just want to play a simpler game.

I also really like the idea of being able to design ships and races. Perhaps using a points pool for race/ship attributes and different point allowances for "epic" and "low" level games.

Again, describing the full thrust rules by ground zero games to a T.

The OP asked for what kinds of things people wanted from a space based game and I answered. Just because another rule system covers some of the requests, doesn't mean there isn't room for another game system with a few different ideas and twists.

Also, note how you're replying to other people's comments.

The OP hasn't said anything about rules yet. Simply saying that what people want is a carbon copy of a game doesn't help anybody. If you think they'd like it, drop them a PM or something. Currently you're adding very little to help this person construct the game.

To finally respond to the OP

1. Combat scalable from a patrol to a fleet sized engagement

2. Fighters are a definite for me

3. I would like to see a variety of styles (as different factions would have different aestehtics etc). I am against Steam Punk in space though

4. Roughly the same size as BFG or Firestorm ships

5. FTL has no real place in a combat simulation...other than as an arrival or escape mechanism. IT can be useful in campaigns. FTL is my prefered method...also causes the least IP infringement

6. Honestly, except for the most ridiculous of weapons, they would not even be noticeable on a model. I would have both chemical/kinetic and energy weapons...having both distinct advangates and disadvantages

7. Fleet based combat, but drone/motherships could easily be included in a fleet

8. Rather indiferent here, I found its easier sometimes to come up with a combat feel/visual aesthetic and then build a race to match it. Regardless of the setting, there would be crosairs/pirates/raiders of some kind.
I would suggest going with some breakdown of Humans, Advanced Humaniod Aliens, and Hivemind/Biological Aliens

9. Not sure how this relates to a space combat game

10. Im not sure what you mean here, but you could factor trade/diplomacy into a well fleshed out campaign mechanism

11. d6 (more readily available to most people)

Personally space combat games for me are about getting the feel of ships in space right (at the mechanical level) without getting overly complicated or resulting in moving in endless figure 8/ellipsis patterns....but when it comes to space combat I am way more concerned with mechanics than I am background or ship aesthetic (which is the opposite of how I am with 40k)

 Lightcavalier wrote:
11. d6 (more readily available to most people)

Personally I would go with d20 - they are not exactly hard to find and give a much wider scope to building stats.

Dice really aren't a problem for anybody who can afford to play a miniature wargame; 10 good D20s will cost you about £4, $5.

I think a really good idea, if you were going to go to the 'incredibly customizable' scene, would be simple cardboard slotta-pieces. It'd not only be very cheap, but versatile.

I offered some fluff to the OP and it wasn't quite to his liking so...I might try my own hand at a game, though I always hated writing rules...one day I'll find a use for this sci fi stories and such

If you are serious I'd recommend going here

http://www.star-ranger.com/Home.htm

Check out the forums, specifically the game development forum. You should find people there that have lots of experience both in background and rules writing. Several of the writers from the current crop of popular rules comment there regularly, and the rest of the members will be the heart of your target audience.

I know you are asking background questions, but for the most part, what people that play lots of space games seek is a good generic system that allows self designed ships. That is a tall order though for balancing since most such systems can be broken fairly easily (broken meaning a single optimal design).

Good luck. I'll post a direct link to the development board below, I don't know if it will work without being signed in.

http://www.star-ranger.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=30

Seen a few mentions of Full Thrust in here.

My old gaming group used to Full Thrust, then an adapted version with more freedom in designing custom ships, we adapted the rules again to include more variety, which eventually culminated in Extreme Thrust. The link to which can be found in my signature. Free PDF download, as well as downloads for pre-prepared excel spreadsheets for designing ships and weapons. OP, check out if you're looking for inspiration, as its specifically designed to be able to emulate every major science fiction universe.

On the topic of 2D vs. 3D, it was explained to me a while back that there's not really a whole lot of reasons to even try and achieve any sort of third dimension. A 2D spaceship combat game involving capital ships and the like can represent 3D by simply imagining your ships in a 3D environment. Height doesn't exist in space, there's literally only distance and the arcs your weapons fire in.

OP, you should decide if you're making just a rule set primarily, or an entire game complete with a universe and factions predefined. Basically, is it like BFG/FS:A/so on, or is it just a set of rules to be used in designing and fighting with spaceships, like what my club tried to achieve with our rule set.

Personally?

Highly customisable fleets!

I know this would be extremely difficult to produce in practise, but stay with me;

1) Produce a series of template 'bodies' to your ships. Maybe each faction has a different design-style (curved, bulky, small but hordes, sharp edges, etc). This is just a bare frame, a base to start with, including only a few cosmetic details that the faction would use.

2) Now, across these bases, ensure there are certain 'joints' (maybe two or three styles; a slot, a square, and an orb). Make sure they're all well represented on each model.) Perhaps have an 'upgrade' slot and a 'cosmetic' slot.

3) Make seperate non-factional detail parts that fit inside the seperate joints. Weapons, defences, electronics, or even just fluffy 'filler' items.

4) Now when you sell a certain faction, the box will come with X faction bases, and X 'slot' upgrades, which are most relevant to that faction (all plasma turrets, or all laser turrets, or shield generators, or whatever) and X cosmetic pieces. Then, people can buy packs of 'upgrades' or packs of 'cosmetics' that suit their needs and desires. They can suit all ships up the same, or make each ship appear as a ramshackle fleet of drifters.

I, personally, think this would be cool as hell. Think; Dystopian Wars, but with more than just a few turrets and a shield generator. Difficult to implement, sure, but cool..

Fleets would, of course, be smaller in scale. More 'skirmish' space combat, but I think it would provide enough unique variation to grab peoples attention. They release upgrade parts that are 'similar but not quite' Star Wars or Star Trek or Firefly or whatever. Don't package them all together. People can build the Enterprise or a Star Destroyer expy, mixing and matching different parts and bases.

 LordofRust wrote:
Personally?

Highly customisable fleets!

I know this would be extremely difficult to produce in practise, but stay with me;

1) Produce a series of template 'bodies' to your ships. Maybe each faction has a different design-style (curved, bulky, small but hordes, sharp edges, etc). This is just a bare frame, a base to start with, including only a few cosmetic details that the faction would use.

2) Now, across these bases, ensure there are certain 'joints' (maybe two or three styles; a slot, a square, and an orb). Make sure they're all well represented on each model.) Perhaps have an 'upgrade' slot and a 'cosmetic' slot.

3) Make seperate non-factional detail parts that fit inside the seperate joints. Weapons, defences, electronics, or even just fluffy 'filler' items.

4) Now when you sell a certain faction, the box will come with X faction bases, and X 'slot' upgrades, which are most relevant to that faction (all plasma turrets, or all laser turrets, or shield generators, or whatever) and X cosmetic pieces. Then, people can buy packs of 'upgrades' or packs of 'cosmetics' that suit their needs and desires. They can suit all ships up the same, or make each ship appear as a ramshackle fleet of drifters.

I, personally, think this would be cool as hell. Think; Dystopian Wars, but with more than just a few turrets and a shield generator. Difficult to implement, sure, but cool..

Fleets would, of course, be smaller in scale. More 'skirmish' space combat, but I think it would provide enough unique variation to grab peoples attention. They release upgrade parts that are 'similar but not quite' Star Wars or Star Trek or Firefly or whatever. Don't package them all together. People can build the Enterprise or a Star Destroyer expy, mixing and matching different parts and bases.

Ooooooh, this sounds cool! Do this, it would be absolutely awesome!

If you have a specific fluffy army for, say, the Zzurgash Confederation of Glabrilldons, you could buy the base of a ship and just mess around with the units!