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Hi I just played at my local GS and lost to Tau by what one could say was luck and close calls and bad decisions. But to the point.

The game was 750 points and the mission was Big gunz neva tiyuh but funnily enough there was only one heavy support.

I was using:
10x assault squad powerfist and two meltaguns
10x tactical squad plasma gun and rocket launcher power sword
5x sternguard with combo weapons
Librarian with epistolary and termi armor and a combinplasma

This was 765 and I probably could have cut the combi weeps on the stern guard but it was a friendly game.

He was using I believe:
Ethereal
13x fire warriors
Sniper team x3 snipers one spotter
One x3 man stealth suit squad all with burst cannon
Another 8x man stealthsuit squad with two fusion guns
And 4 flying forge world models with two seeker missiles each and twin linked burst cannons

It's hard to explain the game but really I bunched up my units badly and was afraid my assault squad would get killed the turn they arrive as they were deepstriking. And Libby took prescience and misfortune which really didn't do much. Sternguard were cut down to two men with combi weps used the tac squad got killed by the end of the game and the assault squad barely held an objective with two men.

Any advice?

My thoughts are probably take a rhino for the tac squad or sternguard
Put a sang priest with the 10x assault squad for survivability and hen put. A 5 man in DS with them to draw away firepower and a Baal pred to outflank and burn everything. If I do some point cuts I could make this work at around 1000-1250 points.
Any other advice?

Hmmm yes, I would agree with you on the addition of a rhino , also put the sternguard in a transport, probably a razorback, if the tau player is still running this list w/o heavy support (railguns)
Spam the assault squads, because I find it really hard as a Tau player to stop all the assault squads. Also, IMO deapstriking the assault squad was a bad choice, as you said. keep them in cover, even if they have to take dangerous terrain tests, the cover save from the sniper drones will be worth it. The five man assault squad is a good idea, cause if the tau player lets them through he's screwed, and if he focuses fire on them he's just let the other assault squad get closer.
Stealth Teams should be easy to take out, just smash it with your assault, no matter how fast that suckers fly's with the stealth he wouldn't escape.
The Baal tank is probably not a good choice, 'cause even outflanking that thing'll be dead in the next tau shooting phase if the tau player plays his hand right. But then again, if you have the assault squad close he'd be torn between them and the Baal... In hindsight, keep the Baal, but be careful where and when he ends up on the board. Too soon and he's remora bait.
The librarian is also just crying out easy kill point in my eyes, even in the terminator armour. The fire warrior squad can dish out lots of firepower, I'm assuming that the fire warriors are an honour guard with plus one ballistic skill, so they really can force a lot of armour saves on the libriarian, so try putting the librarian in the Tac squad for survivability.

Sabreguy wrote:


He was using I believe:
Ethereal
13x fire warriors
Sniper team x3 snipers one spotter
One x3 man stealth suit squad all with burst cannon
Another 8x man stealthsuit squad with two fusion guns
And 4 flying forge world models with two seeker missiles each and twin linked burst cannons

I might be missing it, but his list is illegal. He needs a crysis suit HQ. They are 1+.

No. Crisis suit HQs are not compulsory.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
No. Crisis suit HQs are not compulsory.

Page 32 of the Tau codex disagrees with you.

That tau list is illegal and close to 1000 points

Unless you had some typos, the Tau list is super duper illegal.

He needs a Suit as a HQ.

Only 1 Troop...which has one more FW than is legal.

Stealth Suit squads only go up to 6.

No idea on the flyers though...but they can only shoot those missiles if using a Markerlight token I believe.

Sabreguy wrote:
He was using I believe:

Ethereal
13x fire warriors
Sniper team x3 snipers one spotter
One x3 man stealth suit squad all with burst cannon
Another 8x man stealthsuit squad with two fusion guns
And 4 flying forge world models with two seeker missiles each and twin linked burst cannons

This is an illegal list.

It was a friendly game not that serious (but serious enough for me to get my ass smashed lol) and i did ask if the stealth suits were troops as i dont know all the codices. Bu thanks for the feed back ill just say i put the librarian in the assault squad for psychic powers. so basically it was another assault squad a rhino and razorback and possibly a baal pred

fire warriors could be split and he fired them at the same time maybe?

Odd list and illegal for the tau player. The four flyers are remoras a forgeworld fast attack choice. I'm not positive but I think you can only field three. And in order for him to fire the missiles which are seeker missiles he needs markerlights which he has none. Next time take out his firewarrior team and then he can't win. They will go down quickly w/ an assault squad in their face. He should be bringing a few more squads of them at least. Also if he fields the ethereal next time, don't touch him. Leave him alone. If he dies the player gets PE. Best of luck!!.

 Tauownz wrote:
Odd list and illegal for the tau player. The four flyers are remoras a forgeworld fast attack choice. I'm not positive but I think you can only field three. And in order for him to fire the missiles which are seeker missiles he needs markerlights which he has none. Next time take out his firewarrior team and then he can't win. They will go down quickly w/ an assault squad in their face. He should be bringing a few more squads of them at least. Also if he fields the ethereal next time, don't touch him. Leave him alone. If he dies the player gets PE. Best of luck!!.

1-5 remoras in a squad, and they have their own markerlights. Also i would disagree about not killing the ethereal, sure the enemy gets pe on anything that doesnt run away but thats hardly worth missing out on a vp for.

See about using some Vanguard - you're likely to get them drop on turn 2 and charge straight into a unit, probably the Firewarriors. There's a chance they'll suffer greatly from Overwatch, but more often than not they'll tie the unit up, leaving the rest of your army free to advance.
A Furioso Dreadnought *might* also work - he's only got a few high Strength weapons and its AV13 front armour will help against those, especially if you can keep it in cover on its way in.

Lastly, definitely keep Sanguinary Priests near your base squads as much as possible. As long as they're alive, you get to ignore 1 in every 3 failed saves, and with a small army like this and this low a model count, that makes a hell of a difference.

 Tauownz wrote:
Odd list and illegal for the tau player. The four flyers are remoras a forgeworld fast attack choice. I'm not positive but I think you can only field three. And in order for him to fire the missiles which are seeker missiles he needs markerlights which he has none. Next time take out his firewarrior team and then he can't win. They will go down quickly w/ an assault squad in their face. He should be bringing a few more squads of them at least. Also if he fields the ethereal next time, don't touch him. Leave him alone. If he dies the player gets PE. Best of luck!!.

The Remora has it's own markerlights. I had assumed the FW were a squad of 6 and 7. If it was one squad then yeah he ad issues. Remora can be in a squad of up to 5. Big issue with the list is the missing Command suit, possibly the FWs and the fact that he had 440 points of remora in 760 game.

Well since the Tau cheated you on his list I would suggest bringing a titan next game.

But seriously ML devastators + divination and a assault squad will pay for itself.

Why are people still recommending MLs? MLs are perhaps the worst possible heavy choice for devs in 6th edition. Krak missiles suck in 6th edition, and frags were never any good.

Long range anti-tank fire has major problems against the new disruption pod rules. I recommend FNP attack bikes with MM. The melta range of MM is conveniently inside the effect of their disruption pods. Of course the Tau have the tools to remove their cover save and instagib them with railguns, but those railguns are going to be killing something.......

Martel732 wrote:
Why are people still recommending MLs? MLs are perhaps the worst possible heavy choice for devs in 6th edition. Krak missiles suck in 6th edition, and frags were never any good.

I agree, MLs are pretty much reserved for space wolves now because of their silly price. Also disruption pods mean that long range VS tau armor is rather ineffectual, getting all up in their gak is the best way the handle them. It's not like BA have problems with getting melta-weapons close either.

 Griddlelol wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Why are people still recommending MLs? MLs are perhaps the worst possible heavy choice for devs in 6th edition. Krak missiles suck in 6th edition, and frags were never any good.

I agree, MLs are pretty much reserved for space wolves now because of their silly price. Also disruption pods mean that long range VS tau armor is rather ineffectual, getting all up in their gak is the best way the handle them. It's not like BA have problems with getting melta-weapons close either.

I've never used missile devs, so I'm not advocating them, but BA devs are just as cheap as Wolves. We don't get split fire, but we DO get a big discount over C:SM.

I realize this. But use that discount to buy weapons that don't suck. Get 2 lascannon, 2 plasma cannon and combat squad or something.

Frankly speaking, long fangs are the space wolf units I fear the least because so many people give them weak sauce MLs. The fact that the standard Space Wolf goober can pile out of a rhino and double tap with bolter and plasma guns and then accept charges and fight back with 3 swings (after overwatch) each is absolutely devastating. More devastating than a few krak missiles for sure.

 tomjoad wrote:


I've never used missile devs, so I'm not advocating them, but BA devs are just as cheap as Wolves. We don't get split fire, but we DO get a big discount over C:SM.

I seemed to have messed up my own point. It's not so much that MLs are cheaper for Wolves than BA, but rather that LCs are hideously expensive for Wolves in comparison. Also a CML Terminator means you can quite comfortably spam those MLs.

This may be a side issue...

but what's people's take on HB devs (or LFs in my case)? Frag Missiles are just terrible, and the only use out of them is that split fire makes LFs very multi-purpose. However, I'm starting to wonder if HBs would serve me well as xenos and horde busting tools (ugh that 4++ guard blob I keep seeing).

I sometimes use HB devs in the BA with leftover points. They are okay. Wounding T 3 guys on 2+ is pretty good. Fragging dangerous things like fire dragons from a long range is pretty good too.

My problem with the HBs is that they don't feel very "TAC". They feel like I'm putting them in there to specifically deal with hordes of guard (or orks). They're not so common, and bolters combined with Frag Missiles tend to do enough anyway. I'm just happy that Azeal doesn't have EW. Out of 3 games, I managed to pop him from majority toughness and 3 PG hits I saved until last.

I'm interested to see how my mech vet list will fare against the 4++ guard blob. Having AV:12 will effectively negate standard of devastation, and HHFs should put a fair amount of wounds to cause that guard blob a bit of trouble. That STW VP is too tempting...

Yeah, I don't use them very often. More often, I use a dakka Baal. It's arguably more TAC, since it has the shots to torrent even teqs. And it can back up while doing so. Coward Angels for the win!

The relatively short range of a HB isn't too much of a detriment? PC have enough killing power that I could see using them anyway. 12 shots that are only good v xenos doesn't seem like it's worth the risk.

Plasma cannon is my most often used devastator weapon. It's just sometimes the HB fit into the budget better. HB is only 4" less range than PC btw. And I don't use devs that often anyway.

 tomjoad wrote:
The relatively short range of a HB isn't too much of a detriment? PC have enough killing power that I could see using them anyway. 12 shots that are only good v xenos doesn't seem like it's worth the risk.

36" isn't exactly short range, and it's the same as PC. The problem with the PC is that anyone who bothers to disperse means the blast is going to hit 2 models max. I'm really not a fan of small blast markers. Weapons that roll to hit ignore dispersion, and so have a higher maximum number of hits. It is indeed weaker, but when shooting at single wound models (occasionally with a 4++) it makes up for it.
The HB can also shoot at fliers and FMCs. With 15 shots from a LF squad (which would be buffed with prescience if I was shooting an FMC) I've got a better chance of not only grounding it, but also taking a wound of it. PCs can't touch them.

However, you do bring me to my issue with them, they aren't great against MEQ, which make up around 50% of my meta. MLs at least can make their points back by blasting a marine, it's just a shame that krak can only really glance stuff to death, and frag is almost useless.

Edit: With GHs, plasma isn't an issue for me. Considering all my troops except for maybe one or two squads are packing two plasma guns ap2 isn't lacking.

Fire dragons certainly don't think heavy bolters have short range

I realize that PC range is more or less the same as HBs, I just meant that the PC's greater ability to kill TEQ or MEQ make them worth getting that close, where a HB isn't going to kill enough Marines to risk exposing them.

The fliers issue is legitimate, though HB are only going to possibly ground a FMC and it won't be able to wound/penetrate anything with any reliability.

Anyway, like Martel says, I'd usually prefer a Predator to Devastators, so this is mostly theory and curiosity.

 tomjoad wrote:
I realize that PC range is more or less the same as HBs, I just meant that the PC's greater ability to kill TEQ or MEQ make them worth getting that close, where a HB isn't going to kill enough Marines to risk exposing them.

The fliers issue is legitimate, though HB are only going to possibly ground a FMC and it won't be able to wound/penetrate anything with any reliability.

Anyway, like Martel says, I'd usually prefer a Predator to Devastators, so this is mostly theory and curiosity.

I don't really consider 36" range as a requirement to "expose" anything. The HBs won't wound the FMC, but give me one more unit to shoot it with before my AP2 shots can pound it while on the ground. I like to cycle through everything that has a poor chance of wounding it (with no better targets) before I pour plasma fire into it.

I agree, I don't think I'll bother with HB LFs. They seem a little too niché, and fill a HS slot that I'd rather give to a Vindicator.

Nobody at my FLGS actually plays Tyranids, so FMCs, fortunately, are a non-issue for me until I have a chance to hit the tournaments around here.

As far as 36" being a detriment, maybe I've just been rolling hammer and anvil a lot lately, but it seems like 36" guns that aren't effective on the move never have anything to shoot at.