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does Jaws totally erase Necron's so they cannont attempt to resurrect?

thanks,

the GW guy said they can resurrect... even after I quoted the rules "remove from play".

thanks!

They can resurrect, St. Celestine does the same. It was in one of the FAQ but I can't find it. I think they can do the same thing against JotWW and Lukas's Last Laugh.

Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:
They can resurrect, St. Celestine does the same. It was in one of the FAQ but I can't find it. I think they can do the same thing against JotWW and Lukas's Last Laugh.

From SW FAQ....
Q: If a model is removed from play after failing an Initiative test for the Jaws of the World Wolf psychic power but has the Eternal Warrior special rule, what happens? (p37) A: The model is still removed from play.

It's not Eternal Warrior. It's Reanimation protocol. There is no direct ruling on it, but with Lukas' Last Laugh, which also used the words "removed from play" RP is still allowed.

If an opponent ever want's to argue that "removed from play" means it can't have a RP roll on the basis of "it not being a casualty or destroyed", then I simply say that JotWW doesn't give kill points. The model is not destroyed or defined as a casualty, just "removed from play" hence no kill point.

RivenSkull wrote:
It's not Eternal Warrior. It's Reanimation protocol. There is no direct ruling on it, but with Lukas' Last Laugh, which also used the words "removed from play" RP is still allowed.

If an opponent ever want's to argue that "removed from play" means it can't have a RP roll on the basis of "it not being a casualty or destroyed", then I simply say that JotWW doesn't give kill points. The model is not destroyed or defined as a casualty, just "removed from play" hence no kill point.

What make RP work on "removed from play"? How does the wording of RP dissolve it?

This came up ages ago, I believe it was said ever living can get back up but rp cannot

Q: Are models with an ability to return to play (e.g. Necrons, St.
Celestine, etc) able to use their special rule even after being removed
from play by The Last Laugh? (p52)
A: Yes they can. It sounds odd but their special rule works just fine

Last Laugh uses the same wording as JotWW "Remove from play".

RivenSkull wrote:
It's not Eternal Warrior. It's Reanimation protocol. There is no direct ruling on it, but with Lukas' Last Laugh, which also used the words "removed from play" RP is still allowed.

If an opponent ever want's to argue that "removed from play" means it can't have a RP roll on the basis of "it not being a casualty or destroyed", then I simply say that JotWW doesn't give kill points. The model is not destroyed or defined as a casualty, just "removed from play" hence no kill point.

Pretty sure the wording in missions where killing a unit means scoring a victory point means that if the unit isn't on the board, it gives up its victory point.
"At the end of the game, each player receives 1 Victory Point for each enemy unit that has been completely destroyed. Units that are falling back at the end of the game, and units that are not on the board at the end of the game, count as destroyed for the purposes of this mission."

Verses wrote:

RivenSkull wrote:
It's not Eternal Warrior. It's Reanimation protocol. There is no direct ruling on it, but with Lukas' Last Laugh, which also used the words "removed from play" RP is still allowed.

If an opponent ever want's to argue that "removed from play" means it can't have a RP roll on the basis of "it not being a casualty or destroyed", then I simply say that JotWW doesn't give kill points. The model is not destroyed or defined as a casualty, just "removed from play" hence no kill point.

Pretty sure the wording in missions where killing a unit means scoring a victory point means that if the unit isn't on the board, it gives up its victory point.
"At the end of the game, each player receives 1 Victory Point for each enemy unit that has been completely destroyed. Units that are falling back at the end of the game, and units that are not on the board at the end of the game, count as destroyed for the purposes of this mission."

Using a 5th edition example. The point of the matter, RP works with both JotWW and Last Laugh because of the same wording in the 2 rules. If you want to say that it only works with Ever Living, both EL and RP are the same thing:

Q: Is the roll for an Ever-living counter the same as a
Reanimation Protocol roll; does it benefit from the
resurrection orb? (p29)
A: Yes to both questions

RivenSkull wrote:

Verses wrote:

RivenSkull wrote:
It's not Eternal Warrior. It's Reanimation protocol. There is no direct ruling on it, but with Lukas' Last Laugh, which also used the words "removed from play" RP is still allowed.

If an opponent ever want's to argue that "removed from play" means it can't have a RP roll on the basis of "it not being a casualty or destroyed", then I simply say that JotWW doesn't give kill points. The model is not destroyed or defined as a casualty, just "removed from play" hence no kill point.

Pretty sure the wording in missions where killing a unit means scoring a victory point means that if the unit isn't on the board, it gives up its victory point.
"At the end of the game, each player receives 1 Victory Point for each enemy unit that has been completely destroyed. Units that are falling back at the end of the game, and units that are not on the board at the end of the game, count as destroyed for the purposes of this mission."

Using a 5th edition example. The point of the matter, RP works with both JotWW and Last Laugh because of the same wording in the 2 rules. If you want to say that it only works with Ever Living, both EL and RP are the same thing:

Q: Is the roll for an Ever-living counter the same as a
Reanimation Protocol roll; does it benefit from the
resurrection orb? (p29)
A: Yes to both questions

But the wording on Lukas' rule specifically states that the models are "removed from play as casualties", the wording on Jaws simply states removed from play - arguably an entirely different concept. Anyway, I'm leaving this here, not really much point arguing an over-argued point in the wrong forum with all that can really be said having already been said.

First off, shouldn't this be in YMDC? But to answer it anyways:

Necron cannot resurrect from JOTWW, it removes them from play entirely. This is because the wording of RP states that it can only be used if a Necron would be removed "as a casualty," where as JOTWW just says "remove from play." There is a reason the faq specifically talks about The Last Laugh, and doesn't mention JOTWW or powers like The Last Laugh, and that is because The Last Laugh removes models from play "as casualties." Just because you are given permission to use RP on Last Laugh, doesn't mean that you have permission to use it on JOTWW.

You should bring that back to "the GW guy."

I agree with the post above, slight difference though, ever living works due to working, rp doesn't due to wording.

 Formosa wrote:
I agree with the post above, slight difference though, ever living works due to working, rp doesn't due to wording.

However, FAQ states:

Q: Is the roll for an Ever-living counter the same as a
Reanimation Protocol roll; does it benefit from the
resurrection orb? (p29)
A: Yes to both questions

RP and EL are the same. If it works for one, it works for the other.

Yep there the same, but the wording is different, both allow you to get back up with an orb, but have distinctly different rules and functions.

If someone wants to argue this then vehicles cannot give First Blood. Vehicles cannot be removed as casualties.

ragingmunkyz wrote:
First off, shouldn't this be in YMDC? But to answer it anyways:

Necron cannot resurrect from JOTWW, it removes them from play entirely. This is because the wording of RP states that it can only be used if a Necron would be removed "as a casualty," where as JOTWW just says "remove from play." There is a reason the faq specifically talks about The Last Laugh, and doesn't mention JOTWW or powers like The Last Laugh, and that is because The Last Laugh removes models from play "as casualties." Just because you are given permission to use RP on Last Laugh, doesn't mean that you have permission to use it on JOTWW.

You should bring that back to "the GW guy."

This is correct.

RivenSkull wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
I agree with the post above, slight difference though, ever living works due to working, rp doesn't due to wording.

However, FAQ states:

Q: Is the roll for an Ever-living counter the same as a
Reanimation Protocol roll; does it benefit from the
resurrection orb? (p29)
A: Yes to both questions

RP and EL are the same. If it works for one, it works for the other.

Neither works. They can only use it if they are "removed as a casualty", not if they are "removed from play".

thank you for your comments

just leaving a comment so that when i go to my friends house i can show him this topic.


Also well debated everyone.

 jy2 wrote:

ragingmunkyz wrote:
First off, shouldn't this be in YMDC? But to answer it anyways:

Necron cannot resurrect from JOTWW, it removes them from play entirely. This is because the wording of RP states that it can only be used if a Necron would be removed "as a casualty," where as JOTWW just says "remove from play." There is a reason the faq specifically talks about The Last Laugh, and doesn't mention JOTWW or powers like The Last Laugh, and that is because The Last Laugh removes models from play "as casualties." Just because you are given permission to use RP on Last Laugh, doesn't mean that you have permission to use it on JOTWW.

You should bring that back to "the GW guy."

This is correct.

RivenSkull wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
I agree with the post above, slight difference though, ever living works due to working, rp doesn't due to wording.

However, FAQ states:

Q: Is the roll for an Ever-living counter the same as a
Reanimation Protocol roll; does it benefit from the
resurrection orb? (p29)
A: Yes to both questions

RP and EL are the same. If it works for one, it works for the other.

Neither works. They can only use it if they are "removed as a casualty", not if they are "removed from play".

I believe the SAG rolling double 6's has the same effect. No RP then either.