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Recently, I've been wanting to start up an Imperial Guard project and I've combined this with a love of the British Army in the Napoleonic Era. Therefore, I've come up with a concept for a Napoleonic themed Heavy Infantry Regiment. It's to be based upon the British 'Redcoat' Infantry of the period, but unlike the Praetorians in that the guardsmen are to be more practical, but still retaining a lot of the finery of the Napoleonic theme. To this end, all my troopers are to be based on the GW Kasrkin models, but with Napoleonic accouterments such as cross-belts and Shakos.

My main problem is that I'm at a loss as to how I can make the torso armour stand out from the jacket underneath, as both need to be red to reflect the British Army theme. I've found a decent program that has allowed me to make a mock up of the schemes I was thinking of using (modified in MS Paint ), but the schemes are on standard Guardsmen - I will be applying them to Kasrkin.

So tell me - What are your opinions/suggestions? All are welcome! (Apologies for the poor quality of the images - it was the best I could do!)

hmm, that's tough. I don't think either of those two schemes are quite right, but that's partly because the original uniform didn't have any armor plates to account for

what about doing the armor plates in black (or the same color as the boots & helmet) and then doing just the jacket in red?

Yeah, you see my difficulty - I can't paint the Armour black, as it won't reflect the original Redcoats, but at the same time, painting the armour the same shade as the jacket makes it monotonous so it won't stand out. It makes it really difficult and obviously, the images below don't really do justice to what I'm angling for :(

In addition to that, the original circa-1800 jacket's cut didn't include the longer tunic - it stopped waist height and didn't continue below belt height.

Hmm, I think the best way forward is to get a couple of tester models done.

Interesting idea...
Did redcoats where grey pants? I think an off white would be more suitable.

I like the first scheme though, something seems weird in the second one.

The 1802 summer uniform included white cloth trousers and black above-knee gaiters, however the campaign/field dress would have included short grey gaiters strapped over the instep of the foot, and underneath grey trousers. The Officers would have worn white trousers, but NCO's and other ranks had grey trousers. I suppose in India and the Caribbean, summer trousers would have been worn at all times, and would have been a lighter material, but as I'm going for a Napoleonic theme it seems right that I model them on the field uniforms of the British Army in the Peninsular War.

I prefer the first scheme myself as well. Just not sure, if I should make the jacket as dark as that as it's not particularly accurate. (Accurate... Even though they're gonna be 38,000 in the future! )

I actually prefer the second scheme. It's hard to see, but is the trim on the shoulder pads white then blue?

Yeah, just an idea.

From approx 1645 onward, each regiment of the British Army had it's own Regimental colour. This colour was displayed in the thread that attached the lace rectangles to the jacket cuff, (In some cases the cuff itself) button loops (Rectangles on the Guardsmens chest), collar lace (In some cases the collar itself) and the lining on the base of the jacket.

Of course each regiment also had a regimental flag which consisted of a flag of the regiments colour, with a smaller Union Flag in the corner or a similar ornamentation and design.

Hence, my attempt to include this is to use a lining of dark blue next to the white areas, however I'll probably change this so that the lining is Gosling Green, which reflects the 5th Royal Northumberland Fusiliers - my own county's regiment.

Paint the armour red with white edges on all faces?

Hmm, I was't going to as it wouldn't reflect the redcoat style. The reason I was going to put trim on the shoulder plates was because the red coats tended to have white epaulettes. In addition to this, the Guards Regiments had 'wings' (essentially just triangles of cloth extending from the shoulder). I thought the shoulder plates would reflect these.

A neat idea, I want to do the same. When I get brave and more skilled I want to build a Praetorian-style Imperial Guard army; granted the Praetorians are modelled on the late-19th Century "Zulu"-look, but the colours are basically the same.

As their flak-armour only covers their chest and shoulders, why not have the flak coloured white, or a dirty-grey? The white chest armour will serve as a likening to the cartridge-box and bayonet cross belts, and the white shoulder pads can be likened to the "wings" of the Grenadines, or the light battalions at the time.

The tunics could then be red, with grey trousers.

You can even have your veterans sporting "rifle green"

Tower75 wrote:As their flak-armour only covers their chest and shoulders, why not have the flak coloured white, or a dirty-grey? The white chest armour will serve as a likening to the cartridge-box and bayonet cross belts, and the white shoulder pads can be likened to the "wings" of the Grenadines, or the light battalions at the time.

I'm gonna green-stuff on the crossbelts and the lace button loops so that's the reason i'll not paint the whole torso armour white. And I'm going to be applying this scheme to Kasrkins, which have full body armour.

Tower75 wrote:You can even have your veterans sporting "rifle green"

Already got it covered: Although it's gonna be a Heavy Infantry regiment, i'm going to have platoon of snipers, possibly based on the Forgeworld Elysian Drop Troop snipers. These'll be given all the crossbelts of the Kasrkin, but be armored like the above image. I'm going to paint those in a Green and Black scheme, but it was easier to think of, so I didn't bother asking any questions about it here!

I may as well start a blog when I get the £££ together for this project

Oh, and I forgot to metion, all these models, both Kasrkin and snipers will have a Shako/Rebreather combination of head-dress.

Personally, I like the Dark red armor look with the bright red coat. Better in keeping with the "red coat" look. I like the black helmet. I would go with a brown body of the lasgun to keep with the brown bess idea

What do you think of having a similar paint scheme for both jacket and armour (perhaps slightly darker on armour), but keeping the cloth elements matte and applying a gloss to the hard bits? It should keep colours coherent, but provide enough visual difference in texture to make the parts stand out. It would also be testament to the unit's standard of dress, keeping their gear crisp and polished.

alyxander100 wrote:Personally, I like the Dark red armor look with the bright red coat. Better in keeping with the "red coat" look. I like the black helmet. I would go with a brown body of the lasgun to keep with the brown bess idea

That scheme was my first one and whilst I do like it, i'm not sure it does the red justice - considering that the armour, especially on the Kasrkins, will take up the whole torso and arms, it may make the red look a little too dull, and not bright enough.

As for black helmets, these will be replaced on the Kasrkins by a shako above the face, and a respirator/visor for the face level. If you take a look at the GW Kasrkins page, you'll get an idea of the visor i'm going for. Oh and good idea with the 'Brown Bess' thought - that'll be worth pursuing I may even attach some bayonets to the Kasrkins Hellguns

Nvision wrote:What do you think of having a similar paint scheme for both jacket and armour (perhaps slightly darker on armour), but keeping the cloth elements matte and applying a gloss to the hard bits? It should keep colours coherent, but provide enough visual difference in texture to make the parts stand out. It would also be testament to the unit's standard of dress, keeping their gear crisp and polished.

An excellent idea regarding the gloss/matt finishes, it would be in-keeping with the British Army ethos as well. Personally though, I may reverse your suggestion though and have a brighter red on the armour - though gloss - and a darker colour for the jacket, like scheme A. I'd do this because I feel that, with the amount of armour the Kasrkin are wearing, the jacket would be in shadow half the time. Sound like an idea?

 Warpig1815 wrote:

Tower75 wrote:As their flak-armour only covers their chest and shoulders, why not have the flak coloured white, or a dirty-grey? The white chest armour will serve as a likening to the cartridge-box and bayonet cross belts, and the white shoulder pads can be likened to the "wings" of the Grenadines, or the light battalions at the time.

I'm gonna green-stuff on the crossbelts and the lace button loops so that's the reason i'll not paint the whole torso armour white. And I'm going to be applying this scheme to Kasrkins, which have full body armour.

Tower75 wrote:You can even have your veterans sporting "rifle green"

Already got it covered: Although it's gonna be a Heavy Infantry regiment, i'm going to have platoon of snipers, possibly based on the Forgeworld Elysian Drop Troop snipers. These'll be given all the crossbelts of the Kasrkin, but be armored like the above image. I'm going to paint those in a Green and Black scheme, but it was easier to think of, so I didn't bother asking any questions about it here!

I may as well start a blog when I get the £££ together for this project

Oh, and I forgot to metion, all these models, both Kasrkin and snipers will have a Shako/Rebreather combination of head-dress.

I like the sound of it.

What are you going to have on the cross belts? Will one be for a cartridge box and the other for the bayonet frog? Or will they be like all the redcoat toy soldiers where the belts don’t have anything attached to them, they just loop around the body?

What are you going to do for the lasguns? Make them black, or are you going to try and go for a wood-look?
It’s a shame that there isn’t really a choice of lasgun. The Cadian Kantrael-pattern is awesome, but I think they’d look better with a lasgun that has a traditional “wrist”-stock, not an “assault”-looking, pistol-grip stock. The Death Korps’ lasguns would look awesome for a Napoleonic-style army, shame we cannot get them without re-mortgaging.

You’ve got me thinking now, I wonder if I could fashion together an English Civil-War looking Imperial Guard army, they could fight alongside my Praetorians, when I get brave and build them, that is…

Tower75 wrote:What are you going to have on the cross belts? Will one be for a cartridge box and the other for the bayonet frog? Or will they be like all the redcoat toy soldiers where the belts don’t have anything attached to them, they just loop around the body?

Hmm, the Kasrkins, being metal, already have pouches on one side of them so that's one cross-belt fixed. For the other side, the power cords for the Hell-guns coil round, so I don't have to think too much for that side. If I have to put something there, it'll be along the lines of a couple of Frag Grenades or a pouch of some sort.

Tower75 wrote:What are you going to do for the lasguns? Make them black, or are you going to try and go for a wood-look?

Unfortunately, as I'm applying this scheme to metal Kasrkins I've got to stick with Hell-guns :( I'll be adding Bayonets onto these Hellguns, and I may also try a wood effect on the casings, but i'm not sure how they'll turn out

Tower75 wrote:You’ve got me thinking now, I wonder if I could fashion together an English Civil-War looking Imperial Guard army, they could fight alongside my Praetorians, when I get brave and build them, that is…

That's an EPIC idea! Royalists or Parliamentarians? Either way, if you do get round to that, add me as a Friend and keep me informed, that would be a great take on Guardsmen. Just as a thought: Power-Pikes?

 Warpig1815 wrote:

That's an EPIC idea! Royalists or Parliamentarians? Either way, if you do get round to that, add me as a Friend and keep me informed, that would be a great take on Guardsmen. Just as a thought: Power-Pikes?

Probably Parliamentarians, I prefer the look of their cavalry, the buff-coats. Though the infantry on both sides were dressed the same, there being no uniform for either side.

I wonder how'd you go about it? Green-Stuff bandoleers on them, and big-brimmed hats, maybe? For weapons I was thinking of somehow fashioning laslocks "muskets", maybe smash a Hangunner unit from Warhammer Fantasy's Empire army with a Cadian Infantry Squad.

There would have to be pikemen, but so I didn't take any firepower away from the Imperial Guard infantry I was thinking of fashioning las-pikes. They'd look like pikes, but for legality you'd just treat them as lasguns.

I dunno, though, I'm new to all this, and my imagination outreaches my skill

I also saw - on a dystopian wars mini - a pretty good idea. Red coat and metal armor - might be a fun idea to play with - still holds the Red coat idea but gives it the Sci-Fi flavor you are looking for. the metal wouldnt be too far removed from the period - cuirassiers wore armor, dont look too out of place

Just some food for thought


Automatically Appended Next Post:
here is a link to what I saw:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dystopian-Legions-DLKB15-Kingdom-Britannia-Specialist-Flamethrower-Infantry-/380563829963?_trksid=p3984.m2206&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D31%26meid%3D5759061095862086184%26pid%3D100052%26prg%3D1023%26rk%3D3%26sd%3D350635663217%26

If I remember rightly, there's a UK company named Redoubt Enterprises that claims to have the largest range of ECW figures for 28mm scale. Also, there's Perry Minatures that do a wide range. They'd help a great deal in alternative hats/bandolier torsos if you were that way inclined. Of course, as you say - the Warhammer range for the Empire is always good for that renaissance type of feel...

Oh, and as for colours, the reason the British Army's colour is predominantly red is due to Cromwell's 'New Model Army' (Parliamentarians) adopting red as a standardised colour later on during the ECW. As far as I know, the Royalists didn't adopt a particular colour, but I have seen miniatures painted up in a deep green that look really good.

Las-pikes being similar to guardian halberds of the Adeptus Custodes? Sounds more like a PDF Regiment

Be sure to post some pics up when you've decided. I'm interested in seeing them.

Will do. I'm hoping to get started on them anywhere between March and July if I can find the time. Thanks for the interest.

you could give the hard armour a high gloss finish, and the material a flat matte finish. This should let you maintain the red coat theme but give depth to the scheme.

Yeah. It was mentioned above, that this would be in-keeping with the historical side of my theme as the British Army are fastidious about order and general smartness as it brings about better personal discipline and therefore combat effectiveness.

Thanks for bringing this back to my attention.