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Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren






Liverpool

My dark vengeance space marines are just sitting here so I might aswell paint them as allies and was wondering do the Black Templars have any respect for any particular chapters? Or chapters who share similar traits such as being overly zealous and charging ahead of everyone even if they have 70% casualties just to send a message? I was thinking Minotaurs or Lamenters but anyone have other suggestions?

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The BT get along pretty well with the Imperial Fists and Crimson Fists.

There is even a Crusade where the BT and CF fought together and made squads consisting of both BT/CF
   
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New Hampster, USA

BT loves the Imperial Fists and Crimson Fists all day, due to sharing the manly geneseed of Dorn. They HATE Dark Angels because theyre dirty heretics and that whole Ophidium Gulf fiasco. The Salamanders pissed them off during Armaggedon 3 for protecting mortals instead of charging Warbosses with combat blades like a real Astartes should. They usually come off as exceptionally rude in most fluff towards anybody but each other.

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In the allies chart, they're battle bros with the Space Wolves though the only fluff I can find backing them up is Leman Russ siding with Dorn in his opposition to the Codex Astartes. Consequentially, neither chapter follows that Codex Astartes.

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Liverpool

My DIY chapter is based off space wolves so I think I will leave those badasses out of this one

Wouldnt mind a bright colour contrast to be honest and the imperial fists would fit nicely, hmmm time to read up on their fluff, thanks guys

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IF would look great and Id love to see it. I have an IF painted up myself. Plus you can throw Lysander in there

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Liverpool

Yeah, gonna give the IF's a go, time to start shaving off the heretic symbols first

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Iron Knights.

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Catachan

basically any chapter from the IF geneseed due to the feast of blades tournament

the only chapters i can think that they wouldn't like would the DA (ophidium gulf crusade)
and the grey knights (psykers the lot of 'em)

and they would'nt think highly of a chapter that didnt take the enemy on face to face

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I would actually think they like the Grey Knights, what with the whole killing the crap out of Chaos thing.
   
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Wing Commander






 McNinja wrote:
I would actually think they like the Grey Knights, what with the whole killing the crap out of Chaos thing.

Nah. They'd no doubt think the GK were just as bad - warp-infested, psyker-witch scum. The filth of Chaos must be purged with fire and steel!

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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord







Black Templars will stand with the Grey Knights. They deem them as the only worthy Psykers.

Black Templars Codex, Page 23 wrote:Abhor the Witch
Such is the sacred revulsion in which the Black Templars
hold Witches and Warlocks that they will never fight
alongside such abominations. No model with psychic
powers may be fielded as an ally to the Black Templars
and they will not fight as allies to any army that includes
any models with psychic powers, with the exception of
Grey Knights Space Marines.



   
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Rynn

I thought the GK clause was sixth edition errata though. I was pretty sure classic fluff has them despising GK. but as we all know, fluff doesn't dictate rules, except where fluff dictates rules.

Also, fluff-wise, they probably wouldn't play well with any ultramarines or their successor chapters. The whole roboute guillman forcing the break up of VII legion at gunpoint thing and firing on Dorn's fleet probably has made for a bit of animousity.

Iron nights would be really cool, since its basically just a palette swap, since they both use a cross symbology.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/21 14:47:23


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 OlGreye wrote:
I thought the GK clause was sixth edition errata though. I was pretty sure classic fluff has them despising GK. but as we all know, fluff doesn't dictate rules, except where fluff dictates rules.


Not sure what you're talking about. The above quote is straight out of the Black Templar codex, which was written back in 4th Edition.

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Yeah, the Black Templars respect the Grey Knights. Its been established canon for a long time now,

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Excoriators.

Add legion of the damned.......and lysander

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Liverpool

Yeah tbh I agree with the old fluff and I think deep down the balck templars do distrust the grey knights. A rather extreme example but its like hating everyone of one particular group but somehow not minding a certain few.

Iron knights sound cool but I dunno, I have done a lot of silver, black and red, its driving me crazy

I was looking at the Imperial Fists successors and one that caught my eye was the subjugators who exterminate anyone deemed a threat to the great Imperium and take great pleasure throwing themselves at the enemy although unfortunatley this is the only fluff I could find.

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The Peripheral

I'd imagine that the BT's and Minotaurs would have a love hate relationship since they both seem to embody Church (BT's) and State (Min's). Their relationship is a fatal one, bound to fail eventually, but probably one of the cruelest damned things you'd ever see on a battlefield.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/02/21 22:44:34


 
   
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Croatia

Use the Dark Angels and prepare for backstabing if fallen come around...

ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."

Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan


 
   
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Nosey, ain't ya?

Templars hate pretty much anyone who isn't a Son of Dorn. They respect other Astartes to a degree. We don't trust the Mechanicus or DA for both of them breathe secrecy instead of air.

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I imagine they get along quite well with the Red Hunters as well as the Imperial Fists/successors, though I suspect the Red Hunters are an IF descendent.

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New Hampster, USA

They are relatively cool with Guard, if they prove to have big enough balls to hang with em. Yarrick and the entire Steel Legion are BFFs with the Templars.

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Liverpool

Haha yeah steel legion would be badass enough, Harriticus thanks for the red hunters suggestion, I dont know if the Templars would like people who think hes a god but reading about the chapter would be an awesome grey knights count as force with inquisitors, thanks dude

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Liverpool

Ok after much thought I have finally decided to do the marines as the Subjugators, they really do seem like they would be The Templars party buddies and they are even described to share their zeal to destroy the enemy as well as being an IF successor. They seem like a match made in heaven

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UK

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
They are relatively cool with Guard, if they prove to have big enough balls to hang with em. Yarrick and the entire Steel Legion are BFFs with the Templars.


This - they respect actions and deeds - Helsreach (the excellent novel) shows this very well with the Chaplin showing respect to a Navy squadron who have flown with the Templars before and who had been allowed to bear the mark of the Chapter on their aircraft - IIRC he skips the info on them - "as their honour and courage is already proven".

Its alot easier to list who they don't get on with to be fair

Sadly the Allies Matrix completely ignored all the previous fluff about them being steadfast allies with the Sisters of Battle for no apparent reason which would have been a fun force to ally with-

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/22 15:34:09


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Liverpool

Dont they hate the Sisters (and vice versa) because they view the Emperor as a god? Dont Templars see this as slight heresy? Sorry I forget.

Holy crap haha it says the Subjugators are so brutal and savage sometimes that they will utterly destory everything so no enemy wants to return to fight again and populations that have been re-conquered such as by chaos will also be exterminated for collaborating with the enemy. Imperial commanders will hestitate to call for their assistance. These guys sound like Templars mixed with angry marines

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/22 16:34:26


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So instead of posting the link to the other forum I am just going to quote TheCrimsonLancer's Guide to Lesser Chapters. This can be found over at the bolter and chainsword forum. I think this describes the Black Templars relationships fairly well.


So, it has come to my attention that some of my brethren here do not know very much about the lesser chapters of the adeptus astartes. Therefor, I am writing this guide to inform you, veterans and neophytes alike, about the other genetically modified superhuman warriors of the Imperium. Please note that this guide is for informative purposes only, and the lesser chapters in no way be emulated (you will see why when you read on). While their methods may be inferior, it is important to know them, because all of us will encounter these lesser marines at some point and we have to know how to deal with them. To start:

Lesser Chapter Organization:
Most lesser chapters follow the tenets of the Codex Astartes (Templars with a high enough security clearance can find this book in the "restricted" section of our data-files). This means that they are organized very differently than we are. First of all, each chapter maintains only 1000 battle-brothers. Why they would keep to such a restriction, which only hurts themselves, is something that our chapter's leaders gave up debating thousands of years ago (Incidently, this is one reason why the book is in our restricted section. We don't want any initiates getting bad ideas). Each chapter has exactly ten companies, each of which consists of ten squads, each of which has ten marines in it. Such precision is more suited to the Guard than the Emperor's Finest, but I digress. Also, the individual marines have no say about where they are assigned, unlike in our chapter where we allow the initiates to chose which squad and fighting company they join. This is possibly because the lesser chapters cannot trust their marines to chose their own comrades, or more likely they just want to make sure all of their squads and companies have the exact number of marines that their codex dictates. (Note: When dealing with the lesser chapters, it is best not to mention this obsession with exact numbers, it can make them angry). Each squad is lead by a veteran marine called a "sergeant," who is responsible for directing the squad. The fact that they would need such a officer in every squad just proves how little they trust their own battle-brothers (Even they recognize their own inferiority). The most experienced marines in the chapter are part of the first company, which could be roughly equated to our Sword Brethren. Each Company is lead by a captain, a rank about equal to our rank of Castellan. They have a Reclusism and chaplains, but their teachings are not the same as ours, so it is best not to go to a chaplain of another chapter for spiritual guidance. There is one more important part of a lesser chapter that needs to be mentioned. Most of you have heard of it already, but for those who have not I will provide an explanation. Some of you may wish to skip this section because it is so distasteful. The abomination I speak of is called the "Librarium." It is a special department of the lesser chapter that trains, and utilizes, witches. You read that right. Witches. Filthy Disgusting HERETIC EVIL CHAOS WARP-SPAWNED SCUMBAGS! Ugh, the very idea of a witch serving in the army of the Emperor... KILLKILLKILL NO REMORSE NO PITY NO FEAR KILLKILLKILL... This is a difficult subject to discuss. As you have seen, it is basically impossible to not lose it while talking about the librarius department. Suffice to say, if you see one of these creatures in a lesser chapter, kill on sight. They lesser chapter will be better off for it (If they survive). Now, let us leave this distasteful subject behind and move on...

Lesser Chapter Recruitment and Training:
Some chapters, like us, take recruits from a large variety of worlds, but others confined their recruitment to one specific homeworld. Each chapter has it's own selection process, but they all usually involve some sort of test of physical might and mental fortitude. Once the recruits have entered the chapter, they are sent to the tenth company for training. The lesser chapters do not apprentice their neophytes to a initiate, but instead group nine of them together under the tutelage of a veteran sergeant. This is, quite frankly, one of the more stupid practices of the lesser chapters, as each neophyte gets about one ninth of the attention he would in our chapter, and therefor would take about nine times as long to learn all he needed to know. However, I can tell you for a fact that they no not spend nine times as long in training as our neophytes, which may be the reason for their marines general inferiority. The sergeant of the neophyte unit does not even wear power armor, meaning he can be easily killed and leave his charges without a leader in the midst of battle. The superiority of the Knight-Squire system is obvious here.

Lesser Chapter Tactics and Weaponry:
The vast majority of the lesser chapter's marines are employed in "tactical" squads, which use boltguns as their primary weapon. Only a small minority of the typical chapter uses close combat weapons, which may seem strange until you realize that the lesser chapters do not recognize that close combat is the most honorable and righteous way to dispatch the enemies of the Emperor. How exactly they got this idea is unknown, but it is best not to debate it with them. What close combat weapons they do have are used mainly by jump pack troopers and officers. Also of note are the so-called "Devastator" squads, which is just a glorified name for "cowards who use heavy weapons so they don't have to go near the actual fighting." The neophyte squads I mentioned earlier are called "scout" squads, which range ahead of the main force so they can be killed first and the other units will survive (similar to how we use our neophytes tactically, but we don't put them in a different unit). Also of note are bikes, land speeders, Dreadnoughts, predators, Land Raiders, vindicators, and Land Raider Crusaders they stole from us. They also have some cool gear we don't, such as the Land Raiders Redeemers, Thunderfire Cannons, and a neophyte speeder called the land speeder storm. Their 1st company veterans are formed into three main groups: Sternguard, who like another type of guard wield impressive firepower because they aren't good enough for close combat; Vanguard, who are one of the few groups in the chapter that actually have the right idea about close combat, and Terminator squads. Some of the lesser chapters posses more or less of each tactical asset. Generally, the lesser chapter will rely on shooting to defeat their enemies, with a few powerful close combat units dealing with major threats. While effective, these tactics have little room for faith zeal, and hate, which are an Astartes' greatest weapons. The lack of these weapons is the main reason we refer to them as "lesser" chapters

Notable Lesser Chapters:
Here I will discuss each of the major lesser chapters in the Imperium.

Blood Angels: One of the few chapters that takes close combat seriously. While admirable, this does not make up for their use of librarians, and their genetic flaw that causes them to periodically go insane become beserkers that kill everything in sight. They also have a bad record of successor chapters deviating or even going renegade.

Ultramarines: The boys in blue, they are what most of the Imperium thinks of when they think of marines. They are good for PR, but not much else. They also are the strictest followers of the codex astartes, which their primarch wrote. Overall, it's best to leave them alone to strut in front of the public.

Dark Angels: No one knows much about them, and they may have had something to do with the Opidum Gulf. If you ever encounter them, watch your back and have your sword ready.

Imperial Fists: The Sons of Dorn, one of the few chapters we get along with. These guys are our spiritual ancestors, but they do use librarians, so we have a rather neutral relationship with them.

Crimson Fists: You have to admire these guys for what they came through, they make good allies (if scarce ones). Still have a problem with using filthy witches though.

Salamanders: As Grimaldus found out, this is a chapter of panzees. They spend too much effort defending civilians that will likely die anyway (It's the Grimdark 41st millenium, idiots). Grimaldus sets a very good example for how we should treat them.

Grey Knights: They are witches, but they are incredibly pure and they do have the Emperor's Geneseed... It's a tough call. You'll have do decide if you like them or not on your own.



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/22 16:54:37


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The relationship with the Grey Knights baffles me, not only because of the filthy psykers, but because they are a wing of the Inquisition and theyre always up in BT's business about roster numbers. Thats another bit of fluff for OP if youre not aware; BT is basically the biggest chapter out there. As the fluff states, if the entire chapter were to come together it would be an "unstoppable force".

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Norway

Still the Black Templars accept the Grey Knights as psykers. It's more intriguing how the navigators and Astropaths are accepted by the Black Templars. But in general I take the stance the vast majority of Black Templars doesn't know of that, since psykers are considered as unholy by them, and only a select few are given the necessary clearances to deal with them as their own Storm Troopers more likely deal with such things.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/22 18:59:01


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Liverpool

Oh yeah forgot the Templars always saw the Inquisition as the Health and Safety inspectors. I do think the Grey Knight 'rule' was just for game reasons and fluff was damaged. Emperors gene seed or not and although they may say they are 'pure' Templars believe any psyker (which is true) is open to corruption from the warp because of their connection to it. Thus it is best to stay away from such beings.

Edit: haha never thought of the Astropaths, when their ships travel the warp the Templars must have their bolt pistols aimed at the crews heads whilst giving a middle finger out the windows until they leave the warp

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/22 18:51:46


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