Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Okay... So I know that being a veteran at this game for six years, one would think that I should not need help thinking up a good army, but I have a problem... I cannot beat Blood Angels in a fair fight. I haven't even tied a BA army in a game. 7 losses no victories. And this kinda makes me a little frustrated. I need help thinking up a decent Anti-OP OVER THE MAX army list.

Anyhow. *gets off of soap box* Just as the title says, this one is gonna be tricky. I do not permit the use of plasma or librarians in my army, unless it is Raynor Vascal (Librarian with Jump-pack, powersword, cannot use ranged weapons, has null zone and quickening)

Beyond that, I have no true limitations to what I will field.

Right now this is the best Idea I got...

HQ : 520

3rd Company Britanica Maximus (Chapter master with Artificer Armor, Storm Shield, and Power Sword) 170 pts

Honor Guard Squad 9x with Chapter Banner all Power Swords 385

Troop : 625

Tactical Squad 10x with Missile Launcher, flamer, Power Sword, and Rhino 220

Tactical Squad 10x with Missile Launcher, flamer, Power Sword, and Rhino 220

Tactical Squad 10x with Missile Launcher, flamer, and a Power Sword 185

Elite : 305

Stern Guard Squad 9x with a Powerfist, two Meltas, two Melta-bombs, and a Drop pod

Fast Attack : 310

Storm Tallon with Twin-linked Assault Cannon and Whirlwind Missile Launcher 155

Storm Tallon with Twin-linked Assault Cannon and Whirlwind Missile Launcher 155

Heavy Support : 240

Land Raider Redeemer with Two sponson Flamestorm Cannons, and a Twin-linked Assault Cannon 240


The idea would be to have the land raider and the two rhinos deployed where they can have a clean shot at the target objectives. The land raider would obviously be placed where the highest suspected fire will be centered, so it will take the majority of the punishment of my enemy. (well whatever punishment that would be delivered from units that are ON the table. >.&gt On my first turn the sternguard will deepstrike as close as they can to enemy heavy guns and use vengeance rounds to pepper at least one squad or vehicle down. With that, one Storm Tallon would come onto the table to aid the drop pod with its special ability. It's primary objective would be to finish off the squad that the Sternguard focus on, or deal with any exposed light armor/infanrty (which is nonexistant in a BA codex. ) The rhinos would split and head for border objectives or prepare to curve in towards the primary objective. While they do that, the land raider will charge right through the center like a honey badger and move an additional six inches instead of firing.

Second turn the enemy will hit hard with god knows what, and deep striking librarian dreads or deep striking land raiders. My objective is to use my Storm tallons and my Sternguard to keep those freaks from mobilizing any defence around their objective, and allow my tac squad next to home to die, be aided by the two rhinos that had moved to either side of the table, or allow my land raider to come back and save the day, as the HQ continue on towards the enemy objective. (that is if the attacking force at my primary is infantry. if it is armor, screw it, That Tac squad is gone.)

Third turn, I expect that the enemy has their flyers in by this turn. one of my flyers is dead, my rhinos are dead, and the BA counter is in full swing. At this point I have his objective swarmed by 2 deadly squads. 1 for melee, the other for shooting. At the same time he probably has mine even with 30 marines and a landraider attempting to defend it.

Anyhow. enough with the guessing. What should I do to improve this force? Or should I just junk the list all together?

What is the usual force comp of BA you run against? By not taking plasma your ar limiting the amount of AV2 firepower you have.

I'd recomend dropping the honour guard, all those points can be better spent, like on 2 thunderfire cannons. Those will make jump infantry think twice and are great for massed troops. You can even toss in another librarian and still be under the price of the honour guard.

What are you using the LR for? is it transporting anything? If you insist on using a LR as a shooting platform either to god hammer or LRC might be better for what you want.

The Stern guard are too bloated as well. These guys are a one trick pony. The drop, destroy something big, then get shot up. Run them in a 5 man squad and use the poins elsewhere.

BA aren't a top tier army any more and a decent shooty list can handle them. I think you are trying to beat them at their own game, ie rush forward and try to hit them as hard as you can. if you do this BA will usually beat codex marines. However you can out shoot them easily.

TL;DR: Drop the Honour guard, add in 2 thunderfires, drop sternguard to 5. Get more shooting

I would drop the land raider in favor of a storm raven now that you are allowed to take them.

There are three blood angel players.

one likes deep striking a land raider with death company, having furioso dreadnaughts and those priests.

Another likes storm ravens and usually mounts them with the priests and heavy melee freaks that are not death company

The third and final adgitates me, because he uses 3 devistator squads with all missiles or all las cannons. and a lot of non-transport death company which miraculously are troops because of a certain character

the last one is the one I have the best chance against when it comes to combat. He is shy about engaging my landraider after watching it dozer through three dev squads and an HQ choise, but his death company out maneuvered me on the map the last time

The second guy I have only fought twice and he tabled me both times. I tried heavy dakka. Did not work. Terminators, that went worse some how.

The first guy... I technically beat him, but I had one guy left sourrounded by a land raider redeemer, a death company, and two furiosos. So... I will give the victory to him.

The land raider holds the honor guard who will be the combat unit to melee the sternguard out of trouble. Yes the Sternguard will be hit hard, but it I sacrifice 300 pts for an 800 bull charge to be successful I am willing to do so.

The storm Raven is a pretty good idea actually. I place the HG in there, and I can get them in CC on the second turn + have both storm talons in by the second turn. I might just do that.

Don't own Thunderfire. Won't buy them until I buy more IG. I will never accept the use of warp powers upon the battlefield.



So... If I do throw away the sternguard and the Honor guard, what do you intend me to use as a heavy hitting infantry squad?

You are restricting yourself so you are your own limitation.

For the first BA player remember that DC are not scoring, take out his troops and hold the objectives. Take out the Land raider and force the Dc to walk. Stay away from them and just shoot them with AP2 weapons (which is why you need plasma) You need to stay out of assault range with him. A LR is a large foot print, so if you use terrain and good deployment, he shouldn't be able to land it near you.

Second BA player, take a defence line and shoot the ravens as they come on. You have 2 turns to shoot him, turn 1 when there are not SR and turn 2 when them come on. It sounds like he is keeping alot in reserve so you have a chance to focus on the rest of his army. Again stay out of charge range and shoot him.

Third BA player: DC can be taken as troops in multiples by Astorath but they still don't count as scoring. Taking plasma againis a good call, if they are on foot they are slow, shoot them. If they have jump pack they now cost 35+ points per model, so he won't be able to field alot of them. Stay out of charge range and shoot him.

You'll notice that for each army there was a running theme, stay out of range and shoot him. Ba are good in combat and DC are nasty, but they die to massed firepower just like any other marine.

By limiting yourself with no plasma and no psyhic powers, you are taking away 2 strengths you would have against these armies. It's like me complaining I can't win a race, but I only want to use 1 leg.

You won't beat them in assault, not with a C:SM army. However you do have alot of things that can shoot. For 100 points a thunderfire cannon is one of the best choices in the C:SM army. I even ally them in to my BA army because they are that good.

TL;DR: Don't fight them in H2H, shoot them

So you are recommending to maintain distance? Okay, But you are still against me using sternguard? They do have vengence rounds that are AP 3 Pluss if they do have stay out of range there are the hellfire rounds at poison 2+

I agree that the Honor guard are probably not the best idea. Maybe instead of Britanica Maximus with the HG I should field my master of the forge with an additional 1-2 sternguard or 1 terminator squad?

And what about my land raider? Should I field my 2 preadators with twin-linked lascannos + side sponsons heavy bolters instead of my Land raider.

To get rid of my drop pod I am not sure is a good idea. It does allow 1 storm talon to enter engagement on the first turn, plus allows me to get in close enough to use vengence rounds upon bunkered troops on turn one.


And don't mind the limitations. Those make the game fun.

Just a couple of suggestion, drop the honor guard as others have said and replace them with 10 TH/SS terms. That will scare any player off DS'ing close to you.

Drop all those power weapons on the Sargent, including the PF. Lose the LRs and get TFCs, a defence line and a raven.

Also to note, stormtalons can't come in with DPs. That ability doesn't allow you to follow in Deep striking units, which it what those DPs are doing.

Hope still helps

Sam918

I have mixed feelings on the Sternguard. I don't think they could do enough damage in 1 turn to survive. They are still a throw away unit if you DP them. A simple bolter gunline works.

I'd keep the LR instead of the Pred, it's still a better than the 2 preds. The pred load out you have it good for anti-armour but not so good against foot troops, which you seem to face.

And like the above poster said the Stormtalon can't escort the DP

BA is hard to take-on.

One thought about the deep strike LR problem: Field a Vindicator? I would be a tad nervous if that thing was guarding your deployment zone while trying to drop in. Still need a 5+ to penetrate so it may not be ideal. Just a thought.

Keep a dreadnaught in a drop pod with multi-melta and heavy flamer ready for an "opportunity"?

I tend to take-on Orks so drop pods have been very useful for getting the drop on them, BA is about as dangerous.

Best I figure until I take on more marines.

Good Luck!

 Britanica Maximus wrote:
I cannot beat Blood Angels in a fair fight.

Well let's have a look then!

HQ : 520

*Cough* How much!?!

3rd Company Britanica Maximus (Chapter master with Artificer Armor, Storm Shield, and Power Sword) 170 pts

Honor Guard Squad 9x with Chapter Banner all Power Swords 385

I get that this goes in the landraider but this strikes me as monstrously inefficient. 10 Assault Terminators and a Chaplin in terminator armour is not only tougher but hits harder and and is cheaper. Honour Guard are just about okay but compared to a TH/SS terminator their a waste of points.

Troop : 625
Tactical Squad 10x with Missile Launcher, flamer, Power Sword, and Rhino 220
Tactical Squad 10x with Missile Launcher, flamer, Power Sword, and Rhino 220
Tactical Squad 10x with Missile Launcher, flamer, and a Power Sword 185

Well this is pretty standard. Might want to consider bikes as troops as they can run away from his combat nasties. It seems like some plasma would go well here. But you're avoiding it, why is that?

Elite : 305
Stern Guard Squad 9x with a Powerfist, two Meltas, two Melta-bombs, and a Drop pod

I don't run sternguard as I think they're a colossal waste of points ... however! They have their uses. As I understand the typical build is a full 10 man squad with 6-10 combi-weapons (normally meltas and flamers). You pod in, combat squad and wreck two tanks. If your opponent isn't using much armour, don't bother with them.

Fast Attack : 310
Storm Tallon with Twin-linked Assault Cannon and Whirlwind Missile Launcher 155
Storm Tallon with Twin-linked Assault Cannon and Whirlwind Missile Launcher 155

Under the new rules, Talons with skyhammer missiles become an absolute bargain. They've dropped to 125 points vs 145 for the typhoon variant.

Heavy Support : 240
Land Raider Redeemer with Two sponson Flamestorm Cannons, and a Twin-linked Assault Cannon 240

Yeah, Land Raiders. I want to like them, I don't. Too much that can be totaled by a meltagun.

What should I do to improve this force? Or should I just junk the list all together?

To be honest? I'd say junk it. If you want to keep it. Swap the honour guard and chapter master for chaplain and however many assault terminators you can squeeze into a redeemer, or consider getting the crusader more space. Generally speaking though, Codex Marines are not going to beat Blood Angels in hand-to-hand. They're not really designed too!

Look for things that Vanilla does better than Strawberry then amplify. Vindicators, bikes, cheaper assault terminators. Potentially consider going Salamanders for lots of twin-linked glory.

To be honest? I'd say junk it. If you want to keep it. Swap the honour guard and chapter master for chaplain and however many assault terminators you can squeeze into a redeemer, or consider getting the crusader more space. Generally speaking though, Codex Marines are not going to beat Blood Angels in hand-to-hand. They're not really designed too!

Look for things that Vanilla does better than Strawberry then amplify. Vindicators, bikes, cheaper assault terminators. Potentially consider going Salamanders for lots of twin-linked glory.

Well Rossatdi. I would probably say the same thing to most of your tactics as well. Yes we can all agree that terminators are just flat out amazing. What we be the arguing point is that I only have 13 terminators and they are are all dakka, and I prefer a squad that can hit with five attacks and kill HQ in one tern over the terminators.
1: five attacks compared to three.
2: chapter champion can have six and re-roll all hits and wounds against any independent character.
3: same armor save as the terminators and are capable of filling a land raider with 10 men rather than 6.
4: sweeping advance. They are equal in pricing relatively. Actually more around 10-20 points cheaper than what you suggest, and they fit in the tank.

Now about that land raider and the begging of bikes. Bikes are what would call too expensive and are fast attacks. I do not care for them, and probably never will. I mean of coarse it is nice to have a squad capable of moving 12" and firing EVERYTHING!!! and the T 5 is a +. But I do not have a care for them. Why? Because they are not troops, they are too expensive for what they are used for, and against blood angels who like fielding S 6 AP 3 flamers and dreadnoughts with S 6 blood claws, bikes are definitely not the best choice.

You can also say what you will against Stern guard, but I would like to see what your new opinion is when someone fields Pedro Cantor with three stern guard squads. With their vengeance rounds and their capability to have all members of the squad wielding combi-weapons. They can not only shoot at you with common range 18" S 4 AP 3 rapid fire weapons, but they can also (for 5 more points) wield a one use flamer, plasma gun, or melta gun. Not only are they versatile in ammunition and wield a variety of weapons for a price cheaper than Vanilla Devistators, but they also have an attack of 2, with a base leadership of 9. Now if I were going to fight a Stern guard squad, I would of coarse you terminators, but if they are in a City of Death map, positioned miles away, most likely those terminators are going to die. even though the terminators would be 400 pts vs 275 pts.

In the end, we both have different forms of gaming. I like heavy elite infantry (that are at least more fair than Gray Knights or Blood Angels), and with that I like my dakka troops up close in personally torching everything in their path.


Oh! and to Talizvar. Thank you for your polite two cents. I will consider it. I am in fact buying an ironclad soon. I will plan on replacing the stern guard squad with the ironclad and boost my troops.

And to optimus. I think I will place a dred in the drop pod, and I am sorry to hear that Stormtalons cannot escort DP. I might just have to get some land speeders just to use their escort rule. (multi-melta, flamer combo. 70 pts each)

And sorry sam918. I am not going to drop the lits for units that I do not have. Maybe when I get a land raider spartan, and buy 2 boxes of assault terminators, I will field them. But for now, I will have my HG with LRR. What is your opinion on tarantula sentry guns to cover my deployment zone?