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Im going to be expanding my Ork army soon aiming towards a Green Tide style.
Nothing against the other playstyles - wagon rush, Kans, mixed, bikers but always loved the idea of a huge footslogging GT coming towards you.

However, I havent played GT since mid 5th and wanted to get your guys views on how viable it is in 6th and its strenghts and weaknessess or things to look out for.
Very rough army list would be along the lines of:

Warboss (maybe a Mek with Kff)
2nd Mek with Kff

2x Lootas
Large Grot unit (for backfield obj holding)
Fill the rest with slogging Lootas
Maybe a Deffdread or two (I just like em)

Circa 1500-1750 points limit.

Any ideas?

I've had good success running a nob biker squad with a warboss and then just spamming as many lootas and shoota boyz as possible. Sometimes I throw in a KFF mek and PK nobs, and sometimes I don't.

I would try that though. That nob biker squad being a troop choice as well really helps deal with threats that pop up that your boyz can't handle. However, I've only tried this at 1500pts and less, no idea how it works at typical tourney levels, like 1850pts or so.

Yup Mr Moustaffa has it.

You need a disruptor unit to take the heat off the Boyz mobs while they advance. Nob Bikerz fit this role really well, so would cheap Big Shoota Deff Koptaz, normal bike squads, or buggies, just something fast that gets up in the enemy's face on T1.

I wouldn't bother with the KFF as it only affects the models within 6" which wouldn't cover the frontage of a single unit of Boyz nowadays.

Whats your view on having(?) to have PK Nobs amongst the Boyz MM?
Without, how do you crack mech heavy armies, since Lootas can be literally hit and miss and Shootas just dont cut it? Or do they?


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@ MD - is that a rule change? I thought the Kff covered squads that had at least one model in the kff range?

So you could go?

mob
Mob - - KFF - - mob
Mob

4 units covered. No?

Blah the text edit didnt work - its supposed to look like a "+" formation.

I quit running PK's on my Nobz, the only thing that really throws a kink in a Boyz mob is a dreadnought.

I've found Lootaz to be perfect for wrecking all armor 13 and under. They're consistent overall, I'm sure someone will mathhammer it and tell you they aren't but practical experience has shown this to be correct (you can ask people on the Toronto 40K thread about my Lootaz if you want proof )

A PK Nob runs you 40 points with a BP, for 3 of them you can take 20 more Boyz, or other more effective anti-armor.

Because No Retreat doesn't exist anymore Boyz mobs now grind down basically every other infantry unit in the game.

In 6th the trick is getting them into CC as normal shooting makes you take casualties from the front of the unit. So you need a lot of units and something to take the shooting away from them.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ratius wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
@ MD - is that a rule change? I thought the Kff covered squads that had at least one model in the kff range?

So you could go?

mob
Mob - - KFF - - mob
Mob

4 units covered. No?

Blah the text edit didnt work - its supposed to look like a "+" formation.

Actually I just re-read the FAQ and it says "Unit" not model, so the Codex trumps the BRB, for some reason I thought that the rules for cover in the BRB changed the Codex, but it's the other way around.

With a 5+ cover save you get a bit of survivability, but I'd save that 85 points for more offense YMMV

KFF is definitely recommended, unless some shenanigans happened, it still covers all units within 6," so you only need 1 model for a unit to be in 6" to get cover. Footslogging lootas and shootas has worked for me with nob bikers out in front causing mayhem. You do need something disrupting and absorbing fire so they can't just focus on da boyz.

How many Lootas do you run at 1500 MD?
I usually take 3x7.

Hypothetically or not , how would you deal with say 3 LRs or say Cron flyer lists?
What if someone nukes your Lootas early - whats the fall back plan?

Im just trying to see/analyse where the GT would have problems.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Actually I just re-read the FAQ and it says "Unit" not model, so the Codex trumps the BRB, for some reason I thought that the rules for cover in the BRB changed the Codex, but it's the other way around.

With a 5+ cover save you get a bit of survivability, but I'd save that 85 points for more offense YMMV

KFF is definitely recommended, unless some shenanigans happened, it still covers all units within 6," so you only need 1 model for a unit to be in 6" to get cover.

Cool, though so

I've been taking 2 units of 9 or 10, but 3 would be ideal.

At 1500 you're not going to run up against 3 Land Raiders, since that's 750 points, even if you did, land raiders aren't great against hordes. If you mean Leman Russ Tanks, I just assault them only the Demolisher, Punisher and Executioner have AV11 rear, Power Klaws on Nob Bikers and a Warboss will take these out easily.

Cron Air is pretty well countered by Lootaz, you can keep them alive by going to ground with them for a 3+ save in ruins, craters or area terrain (assuming you keep them at 10 or less).

Small squads of Lootaz take a ton of shooting to dislodge with going to ground. The only real way to nuke them is with close up anti-cover like flamers, which means your Boyz have stuff to chop up right away too.

Armies with lots of direct shooting and artillery are your hardest counter (IG, Tau) which is why you need a fast element to get up close and take these rear elements out.

Pure footslogging tide in 6th, I have no idea. I've been playing really mixed lists since 6th hit.

Thanks, interesting input.

Further Q: what if, say, the 3 AV14 IG tanks are spread out - no multi assault - so your bikers charge and wreck one but then are caught out in the open VS the other two/rest of army?

Do you think Lootas counter Cron Air that well? I have not played/tried it yet.

What about a Cron air/IG Valk ally list? Can they take out that many all at once?

The IG will usually have some bubble wrap infantry around the tanks. Try to multi-assault a single biker into them?

Ok, so back to basic Q: how does GT stop Mech?

Assuming the Lootas cant pen heavies or misfire badly (roll 1s for # of hits and miss on 5s)?

Can it?

Well first off, let me preface everything by saying I AM NOT a tourney player. I have never been to a grand tournament, 'ard boyz, etc. I've been playing for a little over a year now. That way you have a grain of salt to judge everything I say by (For some reason people think I know IG as well, still don't know where they're getting that from )

Anyways, a single KFF mek doesn't break the bank, gives you a second power klaw in a mob so you can actually use the zoggin thing, and gives you slightly higher LD to test on when the mob inevitably gets ground down. Throw in that he's saving a 1/3rd of all wounds that mob takes, and that if you roll night fight he can get your boyz a +3 or +4 cover save IN THE OPEN is pretty awesome. You can easily get 3 boyz mobs covered, which is why I usually take him. I usually have 3 healthy sized mobz, lootaz, and the aformentioned bikerboss w/ nobs. I would also consider dakkajets, big shoota koptas, and even kannonz (although they tend to only shine at 1000pts or lower)

Power klaw nobz in the mobz is really boiling down to preference to me. The amount of points you save if you shave out the nobz from your shoota boyz can go a long way to a biker nob squad, which WILL do damage (and do a number on AV 14) and I've found that tends to be a better investment. My logic is this. Biker nobs are fast. Biker nobz are dead 'ard. They should be beelining towards the scariest git on the table and kicking said gitz teef in. If you see a dread that you think is going to be going after a boyz mob, you should be sending your biker nobz after it, or just say "screw it, those boyz will tie him up for most of the game, and said dread probably costs as much as they do". As a guy who has played foot IG, and green tide orkz, I really feel it's the reason green tide can be competitive and foot IG struggles. Orks have the ultimate fast response unit. It's got high fire power, extreme toughness, and the ability to kill damn near anything in the game if played right. Without those nobz, you're extremely vulnerable to quick opponents. One wrong move, one unit placed wrong during deployment, and you've lost the game. Those biker nobz give you that hard hitting backup plan to pull your arse out of the fire. Flamers dropped in on the flank? Nobz got em. Opponent had a dreadnight warp in near your lootas? We got 'im boss. etc.

Which leads me into how to deal with heavy armor. For my orks, I take my warboss and stick him with my biker nobz. They turbo boost up the table, try to hide out of sight from things that can hurt them, and then go after the tanks that can do the most damage. The warboss splits from the nobz, and they'll proceed to take out at least a tank apiece. Either your opponent puts everything into killing them, giving your boyz time to close the distance and your lootas time to crack their transports, or they focus on the boyz, where said nobz proceed to charge in and wreck face. The only army that has AV 14 that you need to worry about is IG, since they're the only army that really has AV 14 units that are going to be trying to stay away from you and destroy you at range. Landraiders are just making your life easier by bringing the fight to you, and battlewagons have cardboard for side armor, so as long as you're smart with your lootas' placement you'll be fine. For the IG, as long as you can either get the nobz stuck in and flipping tanks into the sun, or getting your lootas to crack their metal boxes so your boyz can dakka on their squishy contents, you'll be fine. Remember, the IG player can't win if all his troops are dead, and trust me, 10 guardsmen won't be surviving long against a 30 strong mob of shoota boyz.

how do you fight 15 burna boys in a battle wagon with green tide? Redeemer land raiders will take your lunch money also. How do you handle triple Helldrakes?

Helldrake does as Helldrake pleases....


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If your only anti land raider unit you have is a biker unit and warboss, i garuntee I will throw my army at that unit to kill it.

 Inquisitor_Dunn wrote:
how do you fight 15 burna boys in a battle wagon with green tide? Redeemer land raiders will take your lunch money also. How do you handle triple Helldrakes?

Helldrake does as Helldrake pleases....


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If your only anti land raider unit you have is a biker unit and warboss, i garuntee I will throw my army at that unit to kill it.

triple heldrake is countered by loads of boyz. That is over 500 points that isnt on the board turn one, and doesnt kill too many boyz if you spread out. Kill the remaining 1000 points with your 1500 of boyz and enjoy.

 Inquisitor_Dunn wrote:

If your only anti land raider unit you have is a biker unit and warboss, i garuntee I will throw my army at that unit to kill it.

Yup, this is the attitude that has won me basically every game of 6th, and my Orks are undefeated in this edition.

Throw everything you can at Nob Bikers, short of S10 they will take your lunch money, get it broken into change, put it in a sock and hit you over the head with it.


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Also the redeemer is laughably bad in this edition, roll forward 6" and fire two templates at a unit 6+" across?

@ Exergy, totally correct, it's so easy to deny flyers a place to move with Orks, I can do it with 2 units of 30, if you're running 6 units of 30 your opponent will have 1 turn of shooting, then back in reserves, then 1 turn of shooting then back in reserves, then the game will basically end.

Really the only reason I haven't bothered with Green Tide is that so many other units got a big boost in this edition. That and, omg so annoying to move across the board.

Green tide isn't bad, just not a win button A distraction unit or two is helpful, and KFF is also.

I ran it at yesterday's tournament, and did ok.

SW- damn near swept them - 5 grey hunters was all that was left, and with upwards of a hundred ladz left.

Necrons were a trial. I got to the midline, and got bogged down in CC with a fricken indestructable lord with MSS, while other units got vaped by necron shooting (shooty necron build not nice ). Still had about 80 ladz at the end, and it would up being pretty much a tie on objectives/secondaries, with him having killed just a few more points of my army than i did of his.

BT were brutal. Lost that one, barely, on objectives, but the death toll on both sides was massive and the brawl in mid table just got UGLY. That was a good game

My back is killing me today though. 200+ models to move wasn't kind to it.

Green tide is very, very good. The biggest counter to it is simply time taken to play the army in a competitive setting. IMO, Lootas are best in squads of ten or less, especially behind an aegis wall so they can GTG for a 2+ save. I would take PK Nobz, they help vs MCs, vehicles, etc. Just be smart with model placement and he wont get challenged out, since he is I1 he will consolidate last, keep him back behind Boyz. I would take some Meganobz and a Warboss in a Trukk. Super cheap transport and allows you to reach far out and once it blows the Meganobz will be unlikely to be damaged by the explosion.

Hey man I'm glad to see this thread. I just want to say that a pure green tide is awesome and is still really competitive in this edition. Pretty much 2 KFF mechs, a ton of boyz, and some sort of gun line. I prefer grot Kannons behind an aegis line. I also run a couple dakka jets for good measure. I've found the kffs are an absolute must.

If you want to check out how they well they do, I put up a ton of battle reports on my pure green tide list... Just check them out under my threads. I hope they help man.

Good luck and waaaaaagggggghhhhhhhhhh

My issue with Dakkajets in a Tide is that you can end up denying yourself space to fly if you're not careful.

It's workable around, but something to watch.

Green Tide counters armies that rely heavily on flyers.

In other words, it's an incredibly good list that will likely only get better and better as more flyers are released.

I can see your point with the dakka jets, but i haven't found a game where I had any trouble yet. I'm about 20 games into the tide and no issues. I think it's one of those issues that are bigger when thinking about the list, but in practice it works out 99% of the time.

The other thing is that almost every flyer has a rear av of 10. They will have to fly over your boyz at some point, and if you're really worried about the flier so much, that mob can spin around and fire a few thousand shoota rounds up it's tail pipe. Probably wont kill it, but it'll shave a hullpoint or two.

I think green tide is still a good way to go this edition. It's no autowin, but its still a good list when you use it right. If I can find some more shoota boyz I'll probably run it occassionally.

 Inquisitor_Dunn wrote:
how do you fight 15 burna boys in a battle wagon with green tide? Redeemer land raiders will take your lunch money also. How do you handle triple Helldrakes?

Helldrake does as Helldrake pleases....

I run double helldrakes in my CSM list. My buddy plays orks.
Helldrakes don't do squad to ork boy squads. You can't kill enough of them to be worth it. Your going to get ~2.7 in the vector strike and another 5 with your flame breath. Its a horrible waste of a helldrake's offensive power.
Your best bet with a helldrake is to go after lootas.

Yeah, Orks are immune to so many trouble units in 6th. Flyers are all easily "ignored", including the Drake. Land Raider doesn't seem an issue to me, generally the units inside won't be particularly adept at combating hordes.

I'm a Necron player, and I dread playing aganst Zgreen Tide. I play shooty lists, so i can grind the horde down wuite well, but theres only so much you can do when 180 wounds is charging across the table. I havent gotten to go up against too many orc lists, but here are a few things I've noticed that msy help out.

Necron vehicles, due to their AV 11 on the rear, require at least a big choppa in the mob to get reliable pens (thus knocking out the AV 13 on the front for your lootas.
Overlords and their ilk are easy to challenge out. If its a lone Overlord, weight of attacks really should do him in. If he's in a unit, chump challenge with a cheap nob to minimize the wounds he can dish out and sweep the unit. Keep track on any Ever Living tokens that may be on the table and spread out so that they cannot place the model within 3 inches.
Tesla Destructors (the big guns on Annihilation Barges and Necron flyers) have a nifty ability called arc. After hitting a unit, a D6 is rolled for every unit within 6 inches. On a roll of 6, the units gets hit by D6 str 5 hits. Doesn't sound like much, but I've run lootas off the table because of it. Give yourself a little extra room between the frontline troops and the support in the back if you can.
Hope you find this tips helpful when running GT against shooty Necrons

Green tide is a good counter to flyers. Flyer's tend to have high strength guns, high AP, low shot guns, and when you have over 150 models on the table, they just don't do enough to compete. That, and shoota boy'z can take out most flyers by shooting the rear armour.

The helldrake's flamer is painfull, but remember they are not in for 2/3 turns, and with that many boy'z they are hard pressed to deal with them before you can overrun someone's ground troops.

Also, 180 Boyz is only 1080 points, so at 1500 you can shove a bunch of other great stuff in there.

I do agree that a Nob with Big Choppa brings some decent utility for 15 more points. PK nobz... ugh, I've just had them shot out from under me and had them challenged out too much.

However, you can use them if you keep them in the back and decline a challenge attempt. Because of init-step pile-in, and you can just step in and start slapping with the PK in the 2nd round of combat.

Personally I think the biggest issue with green tide is painting that many models, then moving that many models in a reasonable amount of time.

 Ratius wrote:
Thanks, interesting input.

Further Q: what if, say, the 3 AV14 IG tanks are spread out - no multi assault - so your bikers charge and wreck one but then are caught out in the open VS the other two/rest of army?

Do you think Lootas counter Cron Air that well? I have not played/tried it yet.

What about a Cron air/IG Valk ally list? Can they take out that many all at once?

Well, I've not faced Orks with my Necrons being still undefeated at RTTs.
But my experience tells me that Crons may have a hard time vs horde Orks. However, I'd first go vs the Lootas with my tesla annihilators. The problem is that Wraiths could get stuck with fearless Ork mobz. With Ork mobz all over the place, Necrons will certainly have a problem.

Much obliged for the feedback peeps, some good food for thought.

It won the last doubles 1k tourney in the area pretty handily. It and SW pods beat out dark angels ravenwing with banner list and my corsairs simply by weight of numbers.