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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I read that today. Very cool section.

If only cool fluff made the rules better.

Some people use fluff to justify rules so it kinda does

Then do not get stuck with one army.

Get some units from other armies and play them, you will learn a lot about the setting and the game by switching sides this way. Allies help this a lot.

That is easy to say when someone plays marines . You can switch a chaos army to any loyalist army , back and forth ,, but a nid player doesn't realy have another army that looks like his . Technicly he could play IG with crones being valks , guants being troopers and vets and other MCs being chimeras and Russes , but everything is going to be the wrong size . Nids also do not have ally .

I was concerned that it could be taken as rude or as an attack.

From what I see on polish boards , I view Dakka as very civil and polite , maybe even too much.

On the other side, people who are new to the army will enjoy it, not knowing better, as long as they stay away of competitions. Sure they will lose a lot, but they will probably lose with Tau too, until they learn the game. And they will learn quickly with a difficult, weak army than with an easy, strong army.

But there is little difference between armies played in tournaments and outside of them . Maybe a starting dude will not have the revenant , but he will counts as it soon or buy it for cheap . A tau player may not start with buying half and eldar army and 5 riptides to get 3-4 builds . But the tides , the seers , the missilisides , cmd will be there even if he doesn't start with 1500pts . The bikes will be driping gravs and chaos is going to be runing helldrakes . He may not face a baronstar or a screamer star , but the portal/grim and wave serpents will be there from day one , because those things are the core of those armies . And considering his skill will be the way they are with all noobs , not very high on avarge , his friends with armies that have units that play themselfs are going to have more fun and he will have less fun .
And if fun for him is just being with people and not playing , why buy an army at all . Pick some models here and there and start becoming a pro painter . Cheaper and one can even get money from it

excuse the "just get another army" guy.
I'm guessing he's a space marine player (they/we all have at least one other army).
ok, well, soon enough I'll have two new fexes so il be able to say how a full brood does in a game.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
That actually raises a good point. Tournament players didn't lose the Parasite, Doom, Mycetic Spores and Ymgarl Genestealers.

Everyone lost them.

We need to remember that.

We can expect this from future codex releases, where there was not a GW model previously, but Chapter house make one lol.

While Tyranids are hit particulary hard on this, it extends to other codex's also.

Makumba wrote:

I was concerned that it could be taken as rude or as an attack.

From what I see on polish boards , I view Dakka as very civil and polite , maybe even too much.

On the other side, people who are new to the army will enjoy it, not knowing better, as long as they stay away of competitions. Sure they will lose a lot, but they will probably lose with Tau too, until they learn the game. And they will learn quickly with a difficult, weak army than with an easy, strong army.

But there is little difference between armies played in tournaments and outside of them . Maybe a starting dude will not have the revenant , but he will counts as it soon or buy it for cheap . A tau player may not start with buying half and eldar army and 5 riptides to get 3-4 builds . But the tides , the seers , the missilisides , cmd will be there even if he doesn't start with 1500pts . The bikes will be driping gravs and chaos is going to be runing helldrakes . He may not face a baronstar or a screamer star , but the portal/grim and wave serpents will be there from day one , because those things are the core of those armies . And considering his skill will be the way they are with all noobs , not very high on avarge , his friends with armies that have units that play themselfs are going to have more fun and he will have less fun .
And if fun for him is just being with people and not playing , why buy an army at all . Pick some models here and there and start becoming a pro painter . Cheaper and one can even get money from it

Interesting. This just makes it more obvious how different are our "metas". I play mostly with old friends, lots of house rules, beer, proxies....

Coming to think of it, I am sure your group supports more this game that ours.

 the shrouded lord wrote:
excuse the "just get another army" guy.
I'm guessing he's a space marine player (they/we all have at least one other army).
ok, well, soon enough I'll have two new fexes so il be able to say how a full brood does in a game.

That´s me!

I play Tyranids, Chaos Space Marines (main army), Chaos Daemons, Sisters aaaannnnd yes, Space Marines, in two flavors: vanilla and wolves. You were right By the way, the only reason I do not have more armies is the money.

And you are also right in this: Tyranids is the most difficult army to switch to and from (no allies). And Space Marines is the easiest (lots of books for the same army): I have used my marines (both vanilla and chaos) as Dark Angels, Templars (in 4th and 5th) and Blood Angels.

Anyway, my advice is still the same: get another army. It will give you a wider view of the setting and the game. It will help you to appreciate how unique and awesome Tyranids are. Pick your choice and try it. Getting stuck in a single Codex makes you quite vulnerable to GW´s schizophrenia.

It doesn´t need to be a full army. I have about 500 points of Sisters, and it has been a while since I played them due to the lack love from GW, but it is enough to get a feeling of the army, and it they get an interesting Codex I can get a 1000/1500 army quicker. Also, you can ask your friends to let you their armies to get a feel of the faction. How much money did you planed to expend in the Tyranid Codex? Use it to get some cheap models on ebay and build a second army.

I think it is worth the effort, and recommend it to all other players.

^ He's right. Nothing puts your army into perspective more than playing against the same army again with a completely different race full of its own advantages and weaknesses. Only if you can afford it, there is no real point to having two unfinished armies imo, tighten up what you need for the new nid dex so you still have a playable army, then have a look at the other army you think is cool.

It's not like building your first army, you will be a lot more focused, as you have knowledge of the game and can decide on a list before purchases, everything is easier than the first time around.

A way of doing this is switching armies: you play against someone and then you play with his army against yours.

It is a nice experience. You learn a lot about your own army, and get a feeling of other factions.

Makumba wrote:


And how does that change being hit by skyfire/interceptors other armies run? Against other flyers this at best means they have a 50% chance to come out of reservs after they do .They suddenly become more survivable , just because they are in reservs . And while they are in reservs on turn 1 there are fewer options for the AA guns to shot at and ending with the tyrants dieing sooner .

They will never reach melee , so that is hardly a argument in their favor . I

Sir... By the time it comes from reserve, the main anti-air will be gone unless it is itself aircraft...buyt then thats what we wanted. And 50% chance of coming out after the enemy flyer is better than the ZERO chance you had before so you make my point FOR me. Who cares what the AA gun shoots at for ONE turn that ISNT a vehicle or flying thing? Lol. No one. Because the 1-2 wounds it causes before it expires is fine with me.

And the Hive Crone can most definitely get in melee if needed. It isn't a frontline fighter, but its there and available to help an otherwise Not-so-great looking melee. So the usefulness of having an answer to a protracted combat your troops might get into is valuable.

Imagination is whats needed here. not words like "Just" and "only". Fact is, tactically, a reserved Hive Crone makes sense a lot of the time.

I took my Nids from shelf after 10+ years because of the new dex. I can´t say I like it nor can I say I dislike it. It looks interesting and somewhat appealing so I shelved my other armies for now and will try nids again. Buy everything as often as I can use it and try out stuff or proxy if you are not such a freak as me who is sinking so much money&freetime into this awesome hobby. I have to admit that there are some strange rules like tunnels and some swampy rules but nothing that can´t be worked out since I don´t play with people who never realised the first rule of this game is fun. So if something is unclear discuss it beforehand and focus on the game after. If something comes up during the game, roll a dice and keep playing to discuss the rule problem after the game.

I had a lot of fun playing against my cousin's new Nids. He used a little of everything.

The mawlocks are the coolest, I think. Nothing else really stood out.. but we had fun. I play a pretty aggressive CSM list, so I was not just gun-lining him.

So how much of the fluff in the new codex IS copy pasted? I don't really care too much about unit entrys... but the rest of the book, is the bulk of it new? If so what percentage is just ganked from 5E?

 SHUPPET wrote:
So how much of the fluff in the new codex IS copy pasted? I don't really care too much about unit entrys... but the rest of the book, is the bulk of it new? If so what percentage is just ganked from 5E?

Most of it. 87% I'd say.

Sir... By the time it comes from reserve, the main anti-air will be gone unless it is itself aircraft...buyt then thats what we wanted. And 50% chance of coming out after the enemy flyer is better than the ZERO chance you had before so you make my point FOR me. Who cares what the AA gun shoots at for ONE turn that ISNT a vehicle or flying thing? Lol. No one. Because the 1-2 wounds it causes before it expires is fine with me.

Realy with short range weapons and most of nids being slow you wipe our all skyfire/interceptors ?And you don't have problems with tyrants or the new FMC out pacing the rest of the army , no problems with grounding tests . Two quad guns demolish a single crone , everything nids have gets grounded the same way it did before , only before there were dooms to deal with and pod devi gaunts. now whole turn 1 can be spend on killing/grounding just the FMCs .And that is for armies that don't run any stronghold fortifications or tau as main or ally .

There was no 0% chance before , because you didn't have them before this codex. Unless you somehow were crazy enough to put your other FMC in to reservs , the dakka tyrant and then you had a 50% chance to come after your opponent flyers. So it was the same chance to get grounded or shot down as before . That is why no one did it , because it was better to be on the board from turn 1 and cast biomancy to make oneself more survivable , then try to come out of reservs and get hit by skyfire and get grounded.

 Jancoran wrote:

Makumba wrote:


And how does that change being hit by skyfire/interceptors other armies run? Against other flyers this at best means they have a 50% chance to come out of reservs after they do .They suddenly become more survivable , just because they are in reservs . And while they are in reservs on turn 1 there are fewer options for the AA guns to shot at and ending with the tyrants dieing sooner .

Sir... By the time it comes from reserve, the main anti-air will be gone unless it is itself aircraft...buyt then thats what we wanted. And 50% chance of coming out after the enemy flyer is better than the ZERO chance you had before so you make my point FOR me. Who cares what the AA gun shoots at for ONE turn that ISNT a vehicle or flying thing? Lol. No one. Because the 1-2 wounds it causes before it expires is fine with me.

I would never field a Crone without also fielding a Mawloc to try to knock out AA. Most squads that would man a Quad Gun will have their day seriously wrecked by 2 St6 AP2 hits.

It is a real shame that Deathleaper is an HQ, and hence prevents you from taking 2x Flyrants. My hunch is that at some point in the future, GW will release a Tyranid supplement which will allow Tyranids to ally with the supplement Tyranids. I think that would make them much more competitive in tournament play.

milo wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

Makumba wrote:


It is a real shame that Deathleaper is an HQ, and hence prevents you from taking 2x Flyrants. My hunch is that at some point in the future, GW will release a Tyranid supplement which will allow Tyranids to ally with the supplement Tyranids. I think that would make them much more competitive in tournament play.

I disagree. Allying won't help that much.
What additional units would you take if you could?

3 Flyrants perhaps? So that's 690 Points gone.

Troops - Terv, 2 units of Gants, 965 points gone.

Fast - 40 Gargs with Adrenal - 1285 points gone.

Heavy - 6 plain fexes? - 2005 points gone.

That really doesn't feel like a 2k list to me, feels more 1850.
It would seem that the Tyranids need an army wide buff or further points drop to be competitive, allying with yourself I don't think will help enough.

I'm mostly dissapointed by the lack of hive fleet tactics and self allying.

Hell even if none of the rules changed nid chapter tactics could completely change how the codex works.

Something like:

Swarm tactic
Tervigons spawn units with ag/ts and halved gaunt radius damage when it dies
Termagaunts etc ag/ts cost 1pt less

Flyer tactics
Gargoyles as troops
Parasite hq/elite option

Serpent tactics
Ravenors as troops and can use trygon holes
Trygon prime also as hq

Nidzilla tactics
Carnifex list

^ Yep, Nids needs a boost to be competitive.
But rather a pointless discussion, nothing will change, best shelving your Nids and not wasting your time.

Gibbsey wrote:
I'm mostly dissapointed by the lack of hive fleet tactics and self allying.

Hell even if none of the rules changed nid chapter tactics could completely change how the codex works.

Something like:

Swarm tactic
Tervigons spawn units with ag/ts and halved gaunt radius damage when it dies
Termagaunts etc ag/ts cost 1pt less

Flyer tactics
Gargoyles as troops
Parasite hq/elite option

Serpent tactics
Ravenors as troops and can use trygon holes
Trygon prime also as hq

Nidzilla tactics
Carnifex list

Don't want to get people's hopes up, but there seems to be a good chance that the three new dataslates will include options to have gargoyles as troops, or to have an MC army, which will possibly include carnifexes as troops. Yes, I agree those options should have been included in the dex - as it's not so much the lack of power of the 'dex that irritates lots of people, as the fact it hugely restricts your play style.

Gibbsey wrote:
I'm mostly dissapointed by the lack of hive fleet tactics and self allying.

Hell even if none of the rules changed nid chapter tactics could completely change how the codex works.

Did you honestly expect either? I mean, in a world where chaos and imperial guard don't have chapter tactics, eldar don't have craft world rules and tau don't have Sept rules, you really expected Tyranids to get Hive Fleet distinctions?

You have to be somewhat careful with your "Hive Fleet tactics" as well. Giving up access to units for a bonus, when you have no intention of using said units anyways, is just a straight bonus....we call it "3.5 Edition Chaos Codex" or "4th Edition Space Marine Codex" Syndrome. You could take a tiny draw back and then a big advantage and laugh all the way to the bank as the draw back has no effect on you.

As for the expanded FoC chart, well, 6 months ago people would have laughed in your face if you said you wanted that, but the release of Lord of War, dataslates and the inquisition codex for ally free....allies.....has really removed the credibility/importance of the force organization chart. That said, with tyranids not allowed to take allies, I'm not surprised we didn't get anything here. The dataslates will probably allow FoC free units anyways....but it remains to be seen if they are going to be even remotely good (we should know in about 10 hours anyways).

You have to be somewhat careful with your "Hive Fleet tactics" as well. Giving up access to units for a bonus, when you have no intention of using said units anyways, is just a straight bonus....we call it "3.5 Edition Chaos Codex" or "4th Edition Space Marine Codex" Syndrome. You could take a tiny draw back and then a big advantage and laugh all the way to the bank as the draw back has no effect on you.

As for the expanded FoC chart, well, 6 months ago people would have laughed in your face if you said you wanted that, but the release of Lord of War, dataslates and the inquisition codex for ally free....allies.....has really removed the credibility/importance of the force organization chart. That said, with tyranids not allowed to take allies, I'm not surprised we didn't get anything here. The dataslates will probably allow FoC free units anyways....but it remains to be seen if they are going to be even remotely good (we should know in about 10 hours anyways).

Yeah mainly expecting it because of zero allies and how effective tactics are in space marine codex. I would of rathered we got decent rules in our codex instead of being gouged right off the bat for dataslates.

Makumba wrote:

Sir... By the time it comes from reserve, the main anti-air will be gone unless it is itself aircraft...buyt then thats what we wanted. And 50% chance of coming out after the enemy flyer is better than the ZERO chance you had before so you make my point FOR me. Who cares what the AA gun shoots at for ONE turn that ISNT a vehicle or flying thing? Lol. No one. Because the 1-2 wounds it causes before it expires is fine with me.

Realy with short range weapons and most of nids being slow you wipe our all skyfire/interceptors ?And you don't have problems with tyrants or the new FMC out pacing the rest of the army , no problems with grounding tests . Two quad guns demolish a single crone , everything nids have gets grounded the same way it did before , only before there were dooms to deal with and pod devi gaunts. now whole turn 1 can be spend on killing/grounding just the FMCs .And that is for armies that don't run any stronghold fortifications or tau as main or ally .

There was no 0% chance before , because you didn't have them before this codex. Unless you somehow were crazy enough to put your other FMC in to reservs , the dakka tyrant and then you had a 50% chance to come after your opponent flyers. So it was the same chance to get grounded or shot down as before . That is why no one did it , because it was better to be on the board from turn 1 and cast biomancy to make oneself more survivable , then try to come out of reservs and get hit by skyfire and get grounded.

Yes. Really really. There are pretty reliable ways to kill the AA before crones arrive and target saturation is pretty much what nids look to excel at. As was said, Mawlocs and exocrines might do it on their oen if they even need both.. obviously every game unfolds differently but its no Amazing leap to understand that the Hive Crone can be freed to do its duty with very reasonable chances of success.

What I'm reading here saddens me greatly. Tyranids were my first army, back in 2nd edition. (I'm ignoring all the crap about people being evil for hoping to defeat their opponents. That's the name of the game, folks. There's no shame in losing, but there's no shame in wanting to win either. And equal footing is not too much to ask for.)

I thought it would be intuitive for GW to make Tyranids at least on par with the other 6th ed codices. Give them more access to upgrades/biomorphs than other armies get, as they should be the most varied race, what with the ability to evolve and adapt and all... I don't think it would have been too ridiculous to allow them to choose upgrades at the beginning of the battle so they can tailor their needs specifically depending on their opponent.

How many iterations of Tyranids is it going to take before GW grows a brain? Every Nid dex has been met with resounding disappointment. My theory (and yes, I honestly believe this) is that GW is afraid of Tyranids. Maybe not directly, (then again maybe) but they're afraid that their grim dark universe will feel too doomed if Tyranids (the race Eldrad predicted would wipe out the galaxy) start winning too many games on the table top. They're afraid 40k players will become too full of despair if Tyranids become a threat to their army. So they turn them into the "noncompetitive" army, aka, the army that is made to lose... The army that is made to make the other armies feel good about themselves.

By my reckoning, there's no other accounting for this codex being so unabashedly inferior. There's just no way GW doesn't see it. People have been screaming at them about this for years.

 L0rdF1end wrote:
Yep, Nids needs a boost to be competitive.

Let's hope Tyranids get a new Codex soon

 Kroothawk wrote:

 L0rdF1end wrote:
Yep, Nids needs a boost to be competitive.

Let's hope Tyranids get a new Codex soon

Yeah, none of this "$50 for an Errata and 4 new units" DLC gak. GW, update this army!

I was wondering if anyone noticed a combo or two.

Sonic scream with Acid blood. I charge with a Harpy and Sonic scream, you are -5 I, so EVERYONE is going after the harpy. I do my attacks, now you hit me, but the whole unit tests on 1 or 2 I, every fail gives the unit a S5 AP2 hit. Is that worth something. In other words, the unsaved wound on the Harpy forces a check for the whole unit. Also, I am going to probably win every combat and sweep every won combat. Just other Fearless and SM get to stick it out.

Only problem is that a harpy will most likely die before it every gets to CC, stick to the air and shooting from a distance is a much safer option for them and doesn't result in dead harpies.

So I fly at the bad guys and drop my spore mines, then vector strike, if I am able to connect the dots. Then I shoot my TL Venom cannon. Then the bad guys say, ouch, I need to drop him, so they hit me and I hit the ground in their turn. Hopefully surviving their turn. Now I jump into combat with my scream and acid blood. I just wonder if it actually works.

Makumba wrote:

Sir... By the time it comes from reserve, the main anti-air will be gone unless it is itself aircraft...buyt then thats what we wanted. And 50% chance of coming out after the enemy flyer is better than the ZERO chance you had before so you make my point FOR me. Who cares what the AA gun shoots at for ONE turn that ISNT a vehicle or flying thing? Lol. No one. Because the 1-2 wounds it causes before it expires is fine with me.

Realy with short range weapons and most of nids being slow you wipe our all skyfire/interceptors ?And you don't have problems with tyrants or the new FMC out pacing the rest of the army , no problems with grounding tests . Two quad guns demolish a single crone , everything nids have gets grounded the same way it did before , only before there were dooms to deal with and pod devi gaunts. now whole turn 1 can be spend on killing/grounding just the FMCs .And that is for armies that don't run any stronghold fortifications or tau as main or ally .

There was no 0% chance before , because you didn't have them before this codex. Unless you somehow were crazy enough to put your other FMC in to reservs , the dakka tyrant and then you had a 50% chance to come after your opponent flyers. So it was the same chance to get grounded or shot down as before . That is why no one did it , because it was better to be on the board from turn 1 and cast biomancy to make oneself more survivable , then try to come out of reservs and get hit by skyfire and get grounded.

Yes. Really really. There are pretty reliable ways to kill the AA before crones arrive and target saturation is pretty much what nids look to excel at. As was said, Mawlocs and exocrines might do it on their oen if they even need both.. obviously every game unfolds differently but its no Amazing leap to understand that the Hive Crone can be freed to do its duty with very reasonable chances of success.

I've seen Hive Crones in action and read some battle reports, so far I've been underwhelmed with their performance, they're just suffer a lot from being squishy and Instinctive Behaviour.

The new Hive Guard kit is very sexy.

Shame about the nerf.